[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Secretly.A.Bee]

We both ended up handless but it was better than staring down TNN and goyf + bolt. I finally pulled off the win, I just got lucky with my cantrips before my opponent.

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[pandaman]

I can understand why your opponent was countering your Therapy attempts. Playing off the top in this deck, as well as Oozing, isn't that bad, I mostly tend to rip the win before my opponent can get me.

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[DavidHernandez]

I find that I am losing games/matches because I can't go searching for creatures. I had two instances where I had Goryo's x 1 and Shallow Grave x 2 in hand, only to never draw Entomb. I had 5 lands in play, and in one case a Dark Ritual in hand, but no way to get a creature into the yard. Lost 2 matches because of this.

I was so frustrated that I almost tossed my cards across the room.

I'm considering 2 x Buried Alive. I tested it a few times (goldfishing) and it doesn't suck, but it's not optimal. I do hate the casting cost, but unless we add some kind of search engine I don't know what else can be done.

Any ideas?

FYI, Daze has been a champ every game.

Dave

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Some people run 3-4 Griz. This way your discard will double as entombs 5-X more often. I also play a 2/2 split on ponder/careful study. That helps as well. Try being more aggressive with your mulligans.

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[.dk]

That was the reason we added LDV to the deck as well, to tutor up Entombs.

[Koby]

More Ponders also help find the necessary pieces as well.

In part with that, sequencing cantrips for maximum efficacy is just as important in this deck as it is for Storm and Doomsday lists. All three archetypes run very few enablers, and rely heavily on cantrips to find their necessary components.

In general:

Brainstorm to be paired with a shuffle effect (Fetchlands, Entomb, then Ponder).
Ponder when looking for a land (in case of a miss, to shuffle the top 3).
Gitaxian Probe to dig as deep as possible into newer cards prior to the other cantrips.

Others have written much better guides including AJ Sacher, Carsten Kotter, and others. The is one of the important skills in playing this deck to its highest potential. I'm still learning to be better at this skill every time I play.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Others have written much better guides including AJ Sacher, Carsten Kotter, and others.

Links?

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[Koby]

AJ Sacher's 'Pondering Brainstorm'
Carsten Kotter's most recent 'Trippin' article
Carsten Kotter's older 'Yes We Cantrip!' artcile

[BeardTron]

I find that I am losing games/matches because I can't go searching for creatures. I had two instances where I had Goryo's x 1 and Shallow Grave x 2 in hand, only to never draw Entomb. I had 5 lands in play, and in one case a Dark Ritual in hand, but no way to get a creature into the yard. Lost 2 matches because of this.

I was so frustrated that I almost tossed my cards across the room.

I'm considering 2 x Buried Alive. I tested it a few times (goldfishing) and it doesn't suck, but it's not optimal. I do hate the casting cost, but unless we add some kind of search engine I don't know what else can be done.

Any ideas?

FYI, Daze has been a champ every game.

Dave

Played against a TinFins brew recently on MTGO and the guy was running Burning Wish main. I can't recall if Wish has been discussed here but it was pretty dominant for him and I asked him how the Wish package was going for him compared to the standard lists and he said the Wish version has been better ...Who knows what he's been playing against and what not...but could run some Wish main with an Entomb in the Board...

[pandaman]

You can't Burning Wish for Entomb, can you? It's an Instant and BWish only gets sorceries? Or was he running sorcery speed reanimation and disruption in the board? Did he have Buried Alive in there?

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[BeardTron]

You can't Burning Wish for Entomb, can you? It's an Instant and BWish only gets sorceries? Or was he running sorcery speed reanimation and disruption in the board? Did he have Buried Alive in there?

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Ha, yes I meant Buried, not Entomb...airhead moment. I think he also had Reanimate in the side.

[pandaman]

Thoughtseize before combo would be nice, as would Cabal Therapy to sac Griselbrand to the graveyard rather than letting him go to exile. I think I will try this.

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[Secretly.A.Bee]

Afaik, red has been discussed and ultimately been found wanting, mainly because it opens us up to more disruption than we so far as a collective are willing to be opened up to (Wasteland). We are reanimator combo, not storm. We are extremely reliant on the yard in ways storm *can* sidestep that specific form of hate via Ad Nauseam, which allows them to be more resilient to wasteland + grave hate. We have an option that allows us to also sidestep yard hate, but Show and Tell has been found to be too clunky. We use it as a sideboard strategy to combat grave hate, but it is far from wonderful.

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[Koby]

Moreover, BWish is an enabler that starts at 2 mana. The deck would need to add additional lands to support a strategy that needs 2+X to get started. The beauty of Entomb/Shallow Grave is that it's 3 mana in total to get the combo, together playable off a Dark Ritual. They're also very easily chain back to back across a turn and can still go off turn 2. Ultimately, for those specific reasons BWish was not tested extensively.

BWish at its best gets Reanimate (1), Exhume (2), or Buried Alive (3). That slows the deck down too much to make the combo effective.

[Cacks]

In a similar vein to burning wish for buried alive, I've been playing tinfins for a little while now and did previously run 2 (even 3, at times) personal tutor, with one buried alive as a target (also 1 reanimate, 1 exhume, 1 show and tell). It gave some good consistency, although I now run 2 LDV, with 2 careful study (in addition to 4 ponder, 4 brainstorm), 3 G'brand and still one show and tell (which I love for the additional angle it gives) which I am finding much more stable.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

That seems extremely slow and bad. I'm glad you made the switch. I'm pretty sure we tested Intuition in a previous setting (Tin Fins 2) and it, while better than buried alive, was still sub-standard to the current state of the deck. As an update, I'm trying a list with daze as well as therapy, and also no Snapcasters. Snapcaster is weak as far as synergies go with Daze. Daze costs 4 used in tandem with it and also returning a land one time will cause it to be, except for niche cases, a dead draw. I know that most if not all of you didn't test him, but overall I still like him. He adds some good synergies with, afaik, minimal problems.

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[Acclimation]

I'm just going to stick to the same list as always- it ain't broke, so I ain't gonna fix it.

Everyone else keep on trying new things though, there's probably some card or interaction out there that we haven't tried that will knock the deck up a notch.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Honestly Daze builds feel better than pure discard builds. I suggest giving it a go.

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[cogitoergosum]

Just saw that this list posted 2nd place at StarCityGames.com Invitational Qualifier on 1/19/2014: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=63199

Sorry, I hate deck tagging-especially when the deck is not mine.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I don't like the build, but I'm glad he did well.

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