[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[cogitoergosum]

I don't like it either, and you can tell it is budget (watery grave/ Gemstone mine). But I figured everyone should see a list that placed well recently.

[phazonmutant]

Teferi's Realm, mwahaha. My tech is making waves

Bee - you're liking Daze? Have you been playing it in tournaments? It was super bad when I tried it a long time ago.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I have been too preoccupied with esperblade as of late to play it in any tournaments, and the tourneys available to me are slim to none anyway. I was going to go to SCG St. Louis but family matters interfered. I do plan on making it to legacy champs at GenCon this year but again, unless they ban TNN, I will probably still be on Esperblade. I can be such a sell-out. Also, how long ago did you try it? It does have its down-sides, but I do still have 4 discard spells main, plus 2-3 (can't remember) Probe. All this information allows Daze to be extremely strong.

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[Richard Cheese]

Teferi's Realm, mwahaha. My tech is making waves

Bee - you're liking Daze? Have you been playing it in tournaments? It was super bad when I tried it a long time ago.

Wat?

[movadomk5]

I've been running Daze in my build lately and have only lost to countertop builds mainly. I dropped silence and Thoughtseize for 3 Daze. It's nice when trying to go off early, counter mb hate or simply make them tap out when you think or no they have a swords in hand.

I also cut to 60/15 dropping reanimate and 1 Ponder for a mox diamond and it seems a little better. This could all just be my sampling of the deck lately.

[Razorwynd]

Wat?

I think somebody was caught taking credit for something the shouldn't have...

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Meh, it's only average tech. Nothing groundbreaking. However, credit is due where credit is due.

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[Acclimation]

Oh snap!




Re-reading some of the thread makes me laugh at how often shit gets asked about over and over and over again. It feels like certain topics have a cycle of 5-20 pages before being brought up again.

I remember reading all of the posts where people brought up Daze and Pact and got immediately shot down due to prior testing showing Silence/Discard being better. And yet, the topic comes back again and again, for a couple reasons.

1) Some people much prefer counterspells to protect their combo. This is understandable. Other people prefer Silence/Discard for their protection. I am one of these people, since I spent years playing DDFT with some number of Silence and Discard to protect me, so that's my comfort zone. Which is the big point here: protection comes down to your comfort zone. That being said, I haven't seen much results out of counterspell lists, and I don't put much stock in small scale tournaments for result testing, whether they be at your LGS or an MTGO daily.

2) The deck has changed slightly over the last year. We narrowed down the creatures in the deck, went back and forth on LDV, played with a splash, talked about S&T in both main and side, went from a stock 60/15 to 61/14, and so on. I consider the current level of Tinfins to be the list that myself and Koby have been playing/working on. People have been trying different things to take that to the next level, which is good.

3) The meta has been slowly changing over the last year, between new cards breathing life into archetypes (DRS and TNN) and the decks that pop up to combat those new decks. 10 months ago Daze and Pact weren't correct, but they could be in the current meta. Some people in this thread advocate it and have been posting some small scale results, so they might be on to something.

So, this post is essentially this: Comfort Zones. I think Discard and Silence are best because that's what has worked for me and put up results. Other people, on the other hand, have the worst luck when playing with the list I've been playing and just draw like garbage, or get obliterated by counters or hate, or just straight up can't make the deck work for them. They could be doing something wrong (likely) but I know that sometimes decklists just don't give you the same results as others. Take my adventures with Modern Griselbanned for example, I can't get good results with the deck no matter how tight I play, yet others have no problem with it. So, perhaps the people who can't make the discard list work as well for them are trying out counterspells and are having much better luck. And that might be due to any number of factors, but I chalk it up to having more confidence in counterspells to protect them- that comfort zone. People play better when they are playing with that comfort zone- Gerry T wrote an article months ago about comfort zones (or playing what you know, which is similar) IIRC.

tl;dr

1) Play protection that you are comfortable with, whether it be Silence, Daze, Therapy, Force or so on. You will play stronger with whatever spells you have more faith in.

2) If you are confident in your choices for the deck and people are skeptical, go out and get some results, the bigger the tournament the better. Results speak louder than forum opinion based theory crafting.

3) Keep an open mind. At the end of the day, there will be a package that puts up the best results for a given meta, and if you are playing to be super tryhard, you need to be flexible enough to change your list accordingly.


Now, replace the Daze/Counterspells/Discard/Silence with things such as 2nd CoK, 2nd Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Show and Tell, 3-4 Griselbrand, 0 Tendrils, not having LDV, Snapcaster, Careful Study, different color splash, and sideboard specific cards. You should find that it's somewhat applicable- people want to play with certain cards in the deck because of comfort zone and ideas of how the deck should operate within a certain meta.

I hoping that my late night rant makes coherent sense; I feel like this is just ramblings of a madman.

[movadomk5]

Acclimation I agree with what you said 100%. I had a good run with the stock list you and Koby run including Koby watching me in person blow my win and in for a gpt top 8.

With that being said a few weeks back I switched to the counter version to try it out and had great success. Then following week I went back and had a miserable time which I can only credit to miss playing the deck to the wrong protection package.

I think this will be the never ending struggle with the deck and the meta that it's being played in. I have tried to keep my conversations about the deck to a minimum and only discuss it with local pilots and with Koby on occasion. It's nice tho to here small reports on how other people's tweaks are going in their meta but hard to argue with the results people like you and Koby have put up on multiple occasions.

[phazonmutant]

Wat?

I am the führer of the 3 Reichs. (King of the castle!)

[pandaman]

Guys, how are you finding your exposure to Wasteland with the current manabase? Given that there is a lot of it around, has anyone tested a basic Island? Or is the deck so reliant on speed that you hate it when you draw it? I just got so sick of getting locked off my Brainstorms and Ponders I have chucked one in, and I am really liking it. 4 Polluted Delta and 1 Flooded Strand give you fetches to dig it out, too. It is only very rarely I have to mulligan a no-Black hand, so I have been finding the trade off worth it. *note, this is with Oozing, which is a different deck, but similar enough that my experience with mana should be relevant to you guys.

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[Secretly.A.Bee]

It's been tested. It's an acceptable choice. It was actually an almost auto-include when I started playing this deck several months ago.

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[pandaman]

Thanks for letting me know. I hope that with TNN not getting the axe the meta warps to combat it, giving this deck room to run rampant!

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[Secretly.A.Bee]

I've hedged my bets. I play this and True-Blade Control lol.

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[pandaman]

Haha, well played, sir! But honestly, I think TNN is the best thing that he happened for this deck for ages. I love people tapping out for it on Turn 3.

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[Acclimation]

Wasteland is easy to play around, as is Stifle.

Don't fetch unless you need to, get the basic Swamp early, and don't be afraid to Ponder for a land.

Alternatively, you can #YOLOSWAG and just win really fast instead.

[Koby]

I found basic Island more hindering to going off than useful against Wasteland. Just play another USea so you still have access to Blue and Black mana.

[Acclimation]

Check out this list that won a GPT over in Paris:

Sylvain Grolleau
Grand Prix Trial Winner – Legacy
Main Deck
60 cards

1 Bayou
1 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
15 lands

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
7 creatures

4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
3 Dark Ritual
2 Daze
4 Entomb
1 Exhume
4 Force of Will
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Lotus Petal
4 Shallow Grave
38 other spells

Sideboard
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Duress
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Reverent Silence
1 Swan Song
1 Thoughtseize


It's definitely different from the lists we've been discussing.

Big differences: Green splash, Jin Gitaxias, Exhume, various sideboard cards.

If this guy played the list in the GP, I wonder if he made day 2.

[Darklingske]

He didn't make D2. Ended on the 231st place with 6-3 record.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

His game plan seems weak, hinging quite a bit on reanimating Jin eoot to give him some protection and some fuel. I prefer a much more direct route, and as I've voiced often, the storm route.

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