[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[pandaman]

When in doubt, always bring in 2 Chains.



Word.

I just lost my shit at this on the bus to work. People are looking at me funny.

[Acclimation]

When in doubt, always bring in 2 Chains.



Word.

[LeePerry]

I've been running Tin Fins on and off for the past year and have tried out the 61/14 build with LDV, but so far I have been very unsatisfied with LDV, I find it cluncky, it doesn't actually draw you the card if you find it, and at two mana, it makes it difficult to combo off in the same turn even if you can draw it with probe/ponder/brainstorm.

the card is great at setting you up for the next turn, but if I already have two pieces of the combo (mana/recursion/entomb or grislebrand+discard) I'd rather be able to go search and go off in the same turn. maybe this is because BUG, miracles and a lot of DR Shaman decks are very popular in my neighbourhood.

So far I've thought of two ways to try and circumvent this problem
1: add Sensei's Divining Top, would add more consistency, lets you draw for free after a LDV, and better equip you to play a slower game through a lot of disruption. The problem is that you generally don't have enough mana sources to activate SDT constantly. I believe it would slow down the deck noticebly. and bringing in Pithing Needle from the board to name SDT against miracles could cause some awkward game-states.
2: go back to 13 land, throw out the LDV and add Preordain. You lose the raw searching power of LDV, but it would allow for a more streamlined version, keeping it's speed and upping your cantrip total to 14. Bringing it closer to what decks like ANT/TES are playing.

any thoughts one this?

This weekend I plan on trying out the Preordain plan, with a singleton preordain (I know, not really brave) and a third thoughtseize maindeck. I don't want to draw cantrips into cantrips, but I think at 6 rounds of play I can get a feel if I like the preordain, want it more than the 3d thoughtseize or am actually missing the LDV.

[Koby]

IMO the LDV has never been intended to be used on the same turn. It's always been an EOT turn 2 Vamp Tutor. It's too mana costly to try to use it as a mainphase Index.

[pandaman]

With a four to one Brainstorm/Gitaxian Probe to LDV ratio it should be good when you draw it. It's never let me down, pulling some amazing game wins when no other card could have helped.

[Richard Cheese]

I will chime in on the opposite side, I never had good luck with LDV. Using it turn 2 to set up a turn 3 always felt super slow, the lifeloss can be a factor, and too many times I'm just digging for Entomb, blanking the other 4 cards anyway. Since it felt like I was always looking for Entomb anyway, I decided to cut it and go back to 3 Griselbrand and more discard. You can see my most recent list on the previous page, and so far I've been really happy with it.

[pandaman]

My take is that you set up Turn 2 for a guaranteed Turn 3 combo. You'll always be able to find that Entomb, and you may even be able to snag yourself a Cabal Therapy (useful if you have a GitProbe) or some more Rituals/combo pieces (useful with Brainstorm if you have soft counters to play around or FoW to deal with).

With LDV and Brainstorm, you can have four out of the five cards you put on top, which can change a hand of garbage to nuts. I'd much rather play something like that over Preordain. Guaranteed the card you want plus amazing potential? Or scry two and draw and possibly not find anything relevant. We're pretty all-in already, and LDV fits with that pressure strategy of consistently going off quickly.

[Richard Cheese]

My take is that you set up Turn 2 for a guaranteed Turn 3 combo. You'll always be able to find that Entomb, and you may even be able to snag yourself a Cabal Therapy (useful if you have a GitProbe) or some more Rituals/combo pieces (useful with Brainstorm if you have soft counters to play around or FoW to deal with).

Right, and I can't argue that it seems really good on paper. I even bought a sweet original German copy so I could play it. I just feel like having 7 discard + 3 Griselbrand has been more consistent at starting the combo than having a 5th Entomb/9th reanimation spell, and faster as well. I could just be biased though. Most of the games I played with it, I never saw it until I was already comboing, or if I actually cast it to find something, it would cost me 4+ life to get an Entomb that gets countered.

[pandaman]

That's fair. But my take is that you need to think about what you would have had if the LDV was the other card. Would you have had the opportunity to go off like you would have with the LDV? Even if it does get countered, you are still forcing them to have that counterspell. You are pretty much drawing a card that says "I now have the ability to win the game if they don't have a way of stopping me." If you're playing the long game, it also informs your subsequent cantripping decisions incredibly well. You can toss away the remaining combo piece you're looking for and concentrate solely on discard or extra Rituals to play around counters, for example, knowing you can get that last piece whenever you like. Of course, you have to consider the LDV getting countered, but my experience is that people are usually willing to let it go if they have counter because they are happy to let you go down a card. But you can make them pay because usually you can abuse it so it doesn't matter to you 'cause you can win through what they have.

[pandaman]

Also, Kudos on the German copy *high five*

[Richard Cheese]

That's fair. But my take is that you need to think about what you would have had if the LDV was the other card. Would you have had the opportunity to go off like you would have with the LDV? Even if it does get countered, you are still forcing them to have that counterspell. You are pretty much drawing a card that says "I now have the ability to win the game if they don't have a way of stopping me." If you're playing the long game, it also informs your subsequent cantripping decisions incredibly well. You can toss away the remaining combo piece you're looking for and concentrate solely on discard or extra Rituals to play around counters, for example, knowing you can get that last piece whenever you like. Of course, you have to consider the LDV getting countered, but my experience is that people are usually willing to let it go if they have counter because they are happy to let you go down a card. But you can make them pay because usually you can abuse it so it doesn't matter to you 'cause you can win through what they have.

Hard to say because I made a few other changes at the same time so there's not one card I can look at and decide if it's better. I just wanted to get back to the roots of the deck and beat counters by just trying to combo over and over until it resolves.



Going back to 3 Gris was just awesome because I was able to self-discard him a couple times, and draw, discard, go won me the round against High Tide.

[Acclimation]

Hard to say because I made a few other changes at the same time so there's not one card I can look at and decide if it's better. I just wanted to get back to the roots of the deck and beat counters by just trying to combo over and over until it resolves.



Going back to 3 Gris was just awesome because I was able to self-discard him a couple times, and draw, discard, go won me the round against High Tide.

I'm a huge fan of LDV for all the previous reasons listed.

Really just wanted to chime in about that gif. Made me laugh out loud, haven't seen the source of that in a long time.

[pandaman]

Me too. I lol'd at the gif!

[Howishotgun]

Looking to build this deck and trying to find a good list to go off of. Does anybody have a list that they would like to share? I saw the list a page back, but I like to view multiple ones and compare if I can help it

[Richard Cheese]

Looking to build this deck and trying to find a good list to go off of. Does anybody have a list that they would like to share? I saw the list a page back, but I like to view multiple ones and compare if I can help it

Well we do have our own category on TCDecks:

http://tcdecks.net/tipo.php?archetyp...&format=Legacy

[Acclimation]

Looking to build this deck and trying to find a good list to go off of. Does anybody have a list that they would like to share? I saw the list a page back, but I like to view multiple ones and compare if I can help it

Just don't run Pull from Eternity.

That card is cute, but pretty much a waste of space.

[.dk]

Just don't run Pull from Eternity.

That card is cute, but pretty much a waste of space.

Unless you're running Serum Powder!!! amiright? :)

[Acclimation]

Unless you're running Serum Powder!!! amiright? :)

Only if we can run Protean Hulk and Shadowborn Apostle!

[.dk]

Only if we can run Protean Hulk and Shadowborn Apostle!

Oh, we can, and we will! Watch out GPNJ, Tin Fins 4 will be unleashed

[Acclimation]

Oh, we can, and we will! Watch out GPNJ, Tin Fins 4 will be unleashed

Swag Fins.

The deck so convoluted, we'll win because our opponents won't know what's going on!