[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[.dk]

Swag Fins.

The deck so convoluted, we'll win because our opponents won't know what's going on!

Exactly - that's why I usually play DDFT. Except then I'm in the same boat as my opponents!

[Koby]

Swag Fins.

The deck so convoluted, we'll win because our opponents won't know what's going on!

That's exactly how we won last year.

"WTF is going on, wait how am I dead? You cast Children of Korlis..."

[P-E]

i still play the deck , old koby list with serenity and it's still a blast to play

maybe i'll take it for gp lille in july 2015

[Acclimation]

That's exactly how we won last year.

"WTF is going on, wait how am I dead? You cast Children of Korlis..."

People still don't know what that card or LDV do.

It's never going to stop being amusing.

[Richard Cheese]

This is by far the most fun thread on this entire site.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Dk, Richard, are either one of you going to GP Salt Lake?

[.dk]

No, but I'll be at GP NJ - possibly rocking this deck in some side events.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

You flying out?

[.dk]

You flying out?

Yessir! Tickets not booked yet, but will be soon.

[Richard Cheese]

Dk, Richard, are either one of you going to GP Salt Lake?

No, although considering how cheap tickets are I should. Will also most likely be at GP NJ. If Khans doesn't shake up the meta by then, I may very well just end up on TinFins.

[Koby]

I think I'm full on the 4 Pack Rat plan vs heavy counter decks. Nothing says "Play Magic" like Thoughtseize into Pack Rat.

[Richard Cheese]

I think I'm full on the 4 Pack Rat plan vs heavy counter decks. Nothing says "Play Magic" like Thoughtseize into Pack Rat.

I'm just going to board into Cavern Demons.

[Acclimation]

I think I'm full on the 4 Pack Rat plan vs heavy counter decks. Nothing says "Play Magic" like Thoughtseize into Pack Rat.

I love playing standard!

[Pomegrant]

Hello, tonight I went 4-0 in a daily on MTGO with a Tin Fins variant that a friend and I came up with. Originally the deck was Tin Fins but splashing some red for Stronghold Gambit. From there the brew changed into playing Burning Wish and LED in the deck. We had felt that sometimes the original Tin Fins deck would brick on mana sources and thought that this might add some consistency to the deck.

If you want to watch the matches I played against Junk, Miracles, Shardless Bant, and ANT. Link: http://www.twitch.tv/pomegrant/b/559863727


1 Badlands
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

1 Children of Korlis
3 Griselbrand

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
1 Thoughtseize
1 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
4 Burning Wish
1 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Void Snare
3 Duress
1 Reanimate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Exhume
1 Pyroclasm
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Meltdown

The sideboard needs a bit of work. I think I should be playing a Show and Tell and I'm not sure if the lands are right. It's a first draft and needs to be tuned but so far it's felt pretty powerful.

[.dk]

While I did try Burning Wish a LONG time ago in Tin Fins, I did not do so with LED. It does give you a bit more flexibility in terms of ways you can win (and I saw the recent Burning Reanimator lists doing a similar thing as well). Seems like a cool idea to test - although I'm not sure that you want all 4 LED's. It seems like you want more IMS that can cast cards in hand to me.

One of the issues I've run into with Tin Fins in the past (I haven't actually played the deck since last November) is when getting my first attempt to combo disrupted, I'm stuck for a while. Which opens up a huge vulnerability to Wasteland and exaggerates the need for having IMS that can cast cards in hand. LED does have a really sweet interaction with Shallow Grave, but makes the deck even MORE all in on combo-ing out the first time (since you pitch your entire hand). Which to me, means you need more disruption (not less) than current UBw Tin Fins. Or a way to be more resilient over the long game (Sensei's Diving Top, more basics, etc.) - and that likely means being less explosive too.

I guess in summary, I worry that going heavy into a 3rd color and adding LED's makes the deck a bit more of a glass cannon that is difficult to recover from disruption with. But maybe that is ok, I don't know.

I do think the concept is sweet and I've been wanting to try something like that for a while, but my time for playing Magic and Legacy has been a bit limited most of this year.

/edit - oh, and in terms of the list itself... since you're running Burning Wish, do you really need Tendrils main? I think that can turn back into the singleton Emrakul to give you more lines of play. So, just looking at it, I would consider in the maindeck

-1 LED
-1 Tendrils
+1 IMS (Swamp? Is Mox Opal playable with adding LED's? Chrome Mox?)
+1 Emrakul

[Pomegrant]

We started with four of everything just as a rough draft. I think playing three LEDs could be right, I just don't have enough games in to determine what amounts of everything I should be playing.

I think Chrome Mox could be a good addition to the deck but I think this build has less reliance on the Lotus Petals since you do get a lot of mana from the LEDs. Playing the LEDs and cracking them between Griselbrand draws is a strong line because you don't mind discarding your hand when you have win conditions to wish for.

So far while playing I've felt the deck has been less all in because you have the ability to win without griselbrand and can win through Empty the Warrens. I think the reliance on Entomb is somewhat reduced as you have a Burning Wish backup plan.

The Tendrils in the main deck is mostly for an easy mode button while I learn to play it better, to be honest. As for the Emrakul, I'm not exactly sure about it. I understand that it's good but it doesn't always work favorably with LED when I'd like to have stuff in my graveyard. It's something I'll have to play around with.

[.dk]

We started with four of everything just as a rough draft. I think playing three LEDs could be right, I just don't have enough games in to determine what amounts of everything I should be playing.

I think Chrome Mox could be a good addition to the deck but I think this build has less reliance on the Lotus Petals since you do get a lot of mana from the LEDs. Playing the LEDs and cracking them between Griselbrand draws is a strong line because you don't mind discarding your hand when you have win conditions to wish for.

So far while playing I've felt the deck has been less all in because you have the ability to win without griselbrand and can win through Empty the Warrens. I think the reliance on Entomb is somewhat reduced as you have a Burning Wish backup plan.

The Tendrils in the main deck is mostly for an easy mode button while I learn to play it better, to be honest. As for the Emrakul, I'm not exactly sure about it. I understand that it's good but it doesn't always work favorably with LED when I'd like to have stuff in my graveyard. It's something I'll have to play around with.

I guess what I mean by all in is that if the first time you try to go off (by any means, Empty, Entomb, etc.) and you are disrupted, you have less IMS to be able to search, filter, and build up to be able to try again. At least, that was the original intent - have a stable enough manabase (with basics) that you can just keep trying over and over again, since you're essentially a diverse 2 card combo, and once Griselbrand is in the graveyard, a 1 card combo.

And, by the way, that's not to say that this is the best approach. It's just a matter of understanding the tradeoffs.

[Richard Cheese]

Yeah you're really trading one kind of redundancy for another. I've been wanting to find a way to integrate Wish or some alternate wincon into the deck, but it always seems to come at the expense of being soft to counters, and always seems to cost some speed as well.

[Acclimation]

I'm not a fan of the less reanimation spells, but that's because my game plan is often smash 8 reanimation spells into my opponent until one resolves.

[.dk]

I'm not a fan of the less reanimation spells, but that's because my game plan is often smash 8 reanimation spells into my opponent until one resolves.

That's kind of what I mean. Yes, you can Burning Wish for them, but that becomes really expensive without an LED to go along with it.

It's really more like you're trading redundancy for flexibility. I prefer the redundant plan - while it sounds like Pomegrant prefers a more flexible plan. Both have their merits - but we need to do some testing to see whether the flexibility gets you out of more game situations than just jamming more reanimation spells would. Example...

In a counter heavy metagame, I would prefer a more redundant plan to keep reanimating in the face of countermagic to turn redundant pieces into Duress/Hymn.

In a graveyard hate heavy metagame (lots of deathrite shamans? RiP?), a more flexible plan may have more merit to more easily play around that kind of hate. A transformation out of the sideboard could help here too (I know there is one that I am particularly fond of for that reason).