[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Koby]

ETA: I also didn't really like LDV because it costs UB and doesn't draw you the top card of the stack, meaning you need a 3rd mana to cantrip into what you need if you're trying to go off that turn.

Think of it as a Vampiric Tutor, then the deck opens up. It's typically for turn 3 kills.

[.dk]

I'm not sure how I managed to miss there even being a link there...

Crippling Fatigue is sweet! Awesome find!

Personally, I never liked having to pay mana for Abrupt Decay. When I splashed green, I liked Reverent Silence for the Miracles matchup. It rarely gets countered by counterbalance.

Interesting that you didn't like LDV - I always find it to be an all-star. But, it sounds like you're casting it on your combo turn? Try to think of it like a slightly more awkward Mystical Tutor, and cast on opponent's EOT to set up for your next turn. Unless you have a Gitaxian Probe in hand, of course.

Congrats again! Sounds like the deck treated you well overall!

/edit: ninja-d by Koby on LDV!

[The Last Emperor]

I put together the 75 that TiltingKitty played (she can confirm this). Here's the thought process the non-stock choices:

Abrupt Decay is a catch all. Removes most forms of Grave Hate forever and deals with Counterbalance.
Daze is free. This allows you to go off T1 with protection without needed a 4th mana source.
Show and Tell gives you an enabler that doesn't use the graveyard. May be too slow, especially since Containment Priest is now a thing.
Speaking of Priest, Crippling Fatigue kills it dead, and you can find it with Entomb. It also kills Deathrite dead provided you can Entomb + Flash it back on the same turn. Good card is good.

In hindsight and after talking with TiltingKitty about the event, there probably should be some number of Serenitys in the board. Also did want a Silence/2nd Seize in the main and another Needle in the board, but inexperience with the deck (never played it, first time putting it together for someone) led me to not know what cards to cut.

[TraxDaMax]

Can we afford to Entomb for Crippling Fatigue (or any non-kill card) for that matter? When I once played the deck the way to lose was usually not find Entomb for me.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

After finding Crippling Fatigue, it's hard to not take another look at Intuition.

[.dk]

Well, sometimes you have an extra entomb, or the Griselbrand + Discard. Sometimes you need to do that as your out if there is a Containment Priest on the board. If that is your only way to win...

I can still see the appeal of Intuition in this deck - but I think it's just too slow. LDV sets up a T3 kill, and Intuition effectively sets up a T4 kill. I think the extra turn matters a lot, even though you can get more options with Intuition.

[TraxDaMax]

I decided to take this to the Belgian Legacy Cup, which had over 100 players! Small report.

Round one vs Mono red Sneak Attack. 0-2
Lose the die roll. He plays a turn 1 Chalice on1. I look at my hand of Entomb, 3 other 1cc spells, Shallow Grave and 2 lands and decide I'll draw a couple of cards before scooping.
Game2 I have a turn 3 kill, but he has a turn 2 Sneak Attack and a Blightsteel puts me at 0-1.

Round 2 vs Zoo
Game 1 I get to sneak an Entomb'ed Griselbrand into the yard when my opponent taps his last green mana for ScavengingOoze targetting an irrelevant Cabal Therapy.
Game 2 a duo of Wild Nacatl with a turn 2 RiP make sure my turns are numbered
Game 3 I can Duress away a RiP. He plays Pithing Needle on Griselbrand, so I wait till he plays his third land an Knight of the Reliquary to Goryo's an Emrakul to wipe his board and put him to 5. I find a reanimate and take his knight to proceed to kill him. 1-1

Round 3 U/Wr Miracles
Game1 I turn 1 Cabal naming FoW, see the coast is clear and go for it turn 2. Get there.
Game2 I Thoughtseize a RiP away, and Decay his Counterbalance. I manage to Show and Tell Emrakul into play vs his Blood Moon, Vendillion Clique and 4/4 vigilance lifelink germ while at less then 10 life. But with a couple of Sensei's shenanigans he is able to Terminus everything away and eventually replay the equipment which bashes me to death.
Game 3 I am able to resolve a Show and Tell again and Emrakul does what it has to do. 2-1

Round 4 vs UR Delver
Game 1 I probe him turn two seeing the coast is clear and Grizza+Children have him concede.
Game2 A turn 2 Young Pyro + Daze + Double FoW make sure none of my spells resolve and the 5power team beats me down in short order.
Game 3 we trade discard and counters, and at a certain point I'm able to cabal two delvers away leaving him with a land in hand+REB.
I find a silence which lets me resolve Lim-Dums Vault which tutors me the kill the next turn. 3-1

Round5 vs Omnitell
Game 1 I go off turn 1.
Game 2 my draw is Entomb off the top letting me go off turn one again. He doesn't have FoW after his turn 1 Ponder. Lucky me. 4-1

Round 6 vs Reanimator
Game1 I Cabal him seeing Double Reanimate and Double Entomb. I had Ritual and Shallow Grave but no way to bin a Griselbrand and he wins in short order.
Game 2 I Duress his Ponder away seeing Bayou and 2 2cc reanimate spells. I Daze his Duress. And decide end of his second turn after that I should Entomb so I can Ponder the next turn and cast a reanimate spell I need to find with the Ponder. But I brick and turn after he casts a topdecked reanimate. Punt punished hard and there goes my chance at top 8. 4-2

Round 7 vs U/W Stoneblade
I don't remember everything precisely as I was tired, half tilting still from the previous round and have a cold, but they were close games where I lose 1-2, knocking me out of top 16 too for sure. 4-3

Overall I'm still impressed by the deck, and the rogue'ishness of it catches a lot of people offguard. The 2 Daze main did a lot of work because people who did know the origal version didn't expect Daze.
I would say basicly any matchup can be won or lost depending on who gets to start and how fast we are. This should be pretty obvious by the 7 different decks I faced.
I don't consider the deck Tier 1 though. But it sure is good in long tournaments where you need to save up brainpower because games are often under 10minutes ;) I think it's up there with the other Yolodecks (Belcher, OopsAllSpells etc...)

[.dk]

Overall I'm still impressed by the deck, and the rogue'ishness of it catches a lot of people offguard. The 2 Daze main did a lot of work because people who did know the origal version didn't expect Daze.
I would say basicly any matchup can be won or lost depending on who gets to start and how fast we are. This should be pretty obvious by the 7 different decks I faced.
I don't consider the deck Tier 1 though. But it sure is good in long tournaments where you need to save up brainpower because games are often under 10minutes ;) I think it's up there with the other Yolodecks (Belcher, OopsAllSpells etc...)

Sounds like a fun event, at any rate!

I don't think the deck is necessarily Tier 1 either, but I think it's more resilient and flexible than you're giving it credit for. Belcher has a few lines of attack, which give it resiliency. This deck doesn't commit all of it's resources into the combo turn, which can give you the resources to recover through disruption. With cards like LDV and the sheer amount of reanimation spells, the deck is fairly redundant and well equipped to fight through counterspells. Personally, while usually the correct line of play is to #YOLO, I do think this is more an a YOLODeck. But that's my opinion.

[Acclimation]

Sounds like a fun event, at any rate!

I don't think the deck is necessarily Tier 1 either, but I think it's more resilient and flexible than you're giving it credit for. Belcher has a few lines of attack, which give it resiliency. This deck doesn't commit all of it's resources into the combo turn, which can give you the resources to recover through disruption. With cards like LDV and the sheer amount of reanimation spells, the deck is fairly redundant and well equipped to fight through counterspells. Personally, while usually the correct line of play is to #YOLO, I do think this is more an a YOLODeck. But that's my opinion.

I had a game once where I resolved an Entomb, and proceeded to draw 5 of my Reanimation spells within 4 turns and just batter my way through the 6 counterspells my opponent ended up drawing.

The guy just looked so defeated when I finally resolved the Goryo.

[wonderPreaux]

Out of curiosity, does any one stream this deck on mtgo these days? Pomoegrant, iirc his name, streams the Burning Wish version every now and then, and I recall LOFNOTC is a streamer who consistently plays Tin Fins but lately hasn't streamed at all. Is there anyone else out there harvesting the onions and what not?

[alastair]

I recently traded decks for an event, trying a friends build. I might be off by a few cards, but the key changes are Careful Study with 4 Grisslebrand, lower land count, increased ToA / Child, and lower disruption count.

4 Grisselbrand
2 Child
1 Emrakul
2 ToA

4 BS
2 Ponder
3 Careful Study
4 GP

4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Vengence
2 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy

2 Chrome Mox
4 DR
4 Petal
11 Land

This is miles away from what I considered 'optimum', but was really surprised by how good the deck felt; far more explosive that my more conservative LDV, additional land, and disruptive build; but with little loss in consistency.

I’ve modified my own list as a result, although this is a work in progress: increasing to 3x Grisselbrand with 3x Careful Study (which was very impressive), but retaining a single Child, ToA, and Mox, with 13 Lands. The key thing I have taken away was the benefit of the second Reanimate paired with the Careful Study/Therapy. The frequency of T1 or T2 Therapy/Entomb/Study, into Reanimate dramatically increased.

It has however screwed the neat 15 card Doomsday plan, which I’m really liking.

[.dk]

Out of curiosity, does any one stream this deck on mtgo these days? Pomoegrant, iirc his name, streams the Burning Wish version every now and then, and I recall LOFNOTC is a streamer who consistently plays Tin Fins but lately hasn't streamed at all. Is there anyone else out there harvesting the onions and what not?

I have the deck, but I don't have a setup to stream, unfortunately. I also can't ever seem to find a time where I want to sit down and use that program for like 5 hours straight... Chris (LOFNOTC) sold his MODO collection, so he's not streaming anymore either. :(

I had a game once where I resolved an Entomb, and proceeded to draw 5 of my Reanimation spells within 4 turns and just batter my way through the 6 counterspells my opponent ended up drawing.

The guy just looked so defeated when I finally resolved the Goryo.

I LOVE when that happens! I had a pretty hilarious match against Dan Lanthier at GP Atlanta in 2012 like that too. I think I described it in my report, but it produced one of my favorite Richard Cheese quotes after he was watching the match: "His graveyard was an encyclopedia of countermagic!"

[Koby]

I have the deck on MTGO, and am looking to re-start streaming it. Give me a few more weeks to get my office set up. Part of my project is to wire up a hardline connection which will increase performance of my stream's upload speed.

Anyone have a drywall drill I can borrow?

[.dk]

I do, but you'll have to come to Boulder to get it. Or I'll bring it to GP Denver to coax you into coming. :)

[Koby]

Sorry, it might take longer than a few weeks for WotC to fix their shitty program.

[ANRoebuck]

So a couple of friends of mine, whose opinions I respect quite a lot when it comes to legacy, told me that I needed to give this deck a try. I'd never played it before, but I'd recently come back from judging a couple of GPs so I walked up to the singles trader at one of our local shops, handed him a stack of judge foils and said "gimme tinfins cards." Then tonight I played my first event with the deck at our store's Christmas legacy thing. Below is a quick rundown of how it went. For context: I'd describe myself as a generally competent player but not awesome (always qualified for nationals, 6-3'd a GP, come 9th at a PTQ, that kind of thing), with reasonable knowledge of legacy in general, but I am completely unfamiliar with this deck.

List:

1 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Careful Study
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Cabal Therpy
2 Thoughtseize

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox

4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Reanimate

2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul
1 Children of Korlis
1 Tendrils of Agony


Side:
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul
1 Boseiju



Round 1: Sneak and Show

Game 1

My opponent mull'd to 5, led on Volcanic Island -> Ponder and shipped the turn. I had the nut draw, leading on Probe for life to make sure the coast was definitely clear I had an easy turn 1. I already suspected that only running 2 Probe might be a mistake - I'd wanted to avoid paying life and leaving myself short for a Griselbrand activation, but I really do love playing with perfect information.

Sideboarding:

The Probe made it clear my opponent was on Sneak/Show. Show and Tell is awkwardly positioned in a match where both players have Griselbrand and Emrakul, but I figured that it's "better" for me as I'm far more likely to cast it in my own turn and win in that same turn while my opponent needs an extra turn to be able to win. I also suspected my opponent would cut his own Shows, as well as bringing in some graveyard hate. I went for the transformation, putting myself on the Show plan.

Game 2

I keep a hand that doesn't quite have the combo, but has two cantrips plus some disruption. My opponent leads on Volc -> Ponder again. I Probe and see 2x Spell Pierce, Force, Dig Through Time, Ponder, Land. I cast Cabal Therapy (with a second in hand) intending to name Spell Pierce if it resolves. My opponent pitches Dig to Force to counter it. His second turn is Land -> Ponder again. I draw Children. I cast a second Therapy, which he Spell Pierces. I then cast Children, sac it to flashback Therapy, and leave him with just his previously unknown card - Brainstorm. His turn 3 is draw, go. By turn 3 I've found the missing piece of the puzzle and am free to go off courtesy of Ancient Tomb, Show and Tell, Griselbrand.

1-0


Round 2: Jund

Game 1

I kept a pretty decent hand but my opponent has double Wasteland, Thoughtseize, and Hymn, which proved to be a real headache as my mana sources were Sea and Tundra. He leads with Badlands into Thoughtseize, taking one of my Ponders. I Probe for life (seeing the remaining disruption), then Sea into Ponder, hoping for the best. I find good cards but only a Petal for extra mana. My opponent's turn two probably should have been the Hymn or a Waste, but instead he played Dark Confidant. This gave me time to take the Hymn away from him with a Therapy. I was still kind of vulnerable to disruption at that point, but his turn three of "Goyf, attack with Bob, go" just wasn't interactive enough. I guess he'd figured out that two Griselbrand activations would put me to exactly 3, and that by leaving up mana he was forcing me to play around Bolt. In reality I think just wasting one of my lands would have been better, as Therapy in the graveyard meant I was fairly likely to clear Bolt out of his hand. A fairly solid win here, but made much easier by my opponent underestimating both the speed of the combo and the fragility of the mana base - I was kind of surprised that the game ended with two Wastes still in his hand.

Boarding

I know my opponent already has 4 Deathrite main, and expect more graveyard hate out of the board. I switch 14 cards, not bothering with the Boseiju as obviously he has no counters.

Game 2

I'm on the draw, but have a pretty bonkers hand that's going to Show an Emrakul into play on turn 1. My opponent leads with Badlands -> Grafdigger's Cage, and I'm feeling really good about the transformation at this point. I joke that if he has two lands and a Liliana, he probably wins, then cast my Show. I put in Emrakul, he puts in second black source. He untaps, plays Wasteland -> Liliana, and edicts me. There's no way I'm coming back from this, so we go to game three.

Game 3

My opponent mulligans to 5, desperately trying to find some interaction. It's no good, and I'm able to go off on turn two.

2-0


Round 3: Miracles

My opponent is on the play and makes turn 1 Top into turn 2 Counterbalance. Aside from my turn 1 Ponder, I didn't resolve a spell all game. I let it play out for a few turns, just to try and see a few more of his cards, but I concede on around turn 5 or 6.

Boarding

This was tough, as I was definitely expecting Rest in Peace but he also has counterspells. I decide that the transformation is still the better plan and go for it. I'm able to make a turn 3 Emrakul after priming with Probe/Therapy/Ponder over turns 1&2, but my opponent puts in a land off the Show and has land number 4 + Jace to bounce the Emrakul. I scoop.

2-1


Round 4: U/R Landstill

Game 1

I keep the nut draw and go off on turn one. My opponent makes me play it out, but there was nothing he could have done to stop me. If anything he should have scooped instead of hoping I somehow fizzled - letting me see his hand off Probe was great for me.

Boarding

I'm expecting to win anyway, and I'm more curious about testing my sideboard than the main at this point (although I need to get better with the deck, the 60 is essentially trivial - we all know it's "good" and there's not a huge deal to learn there). I go for the transformation.


Game 2

My opponent mulls to 5, presumably looking for interaction. I'm beginning to appreciate just how much pressure this deck puts on your opponents to have the answers. Of course, sometimes they just do, but bullying people into taking mulligans when they have what in most matches would be a keepable hand feels really good. Opponent leads Volc, go. I fetch for basic Swamp (having seen Wastes in game 1) and Therapy blind, naming Force. I see a hand of land, Crucible, Bolt, and Counterspell. His turn two is land go, leaving Counterspell up. I fetch basic Island, and Ponder. I find Boseiju. He Bolts me end step, untaps and ships the turn straight back. I make tapped Boseiju, and pass the turn. He doesn't draw Wasteland, and that's basically game over. I showed into Emrakul the next turn.

3-1




So that's my first try with tinfins. 3-1, and the one loss was to a guy who's made the Pro Tour several times so I don't feel too bad about that. I really liked the Ominscience plan, rather than just going to 4 Griselbrand 4 Emrakul, as it's about as close to 8 Griselbrands as you can get. Showing in an Emrakul means you have to let them have a turn before you can kill them; showing in Omniscience means you can start chaining free cantrips until you find whatever else you need to win. I definitely have a couple of things I'd like to change for next time, probably something like this:

Main
+2 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Reanimate
+1 Griselbrand
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Lim-Dul's Vault
-1 Ponder
-1 Thoughtseize

Side
-1 Griselbrand (moved to main)
-1 Emrakul
-1 Boseiju
+3 Defence Grid

[wonderPreaux]

I have the deck on MTGO, and am looking to re-start streaming it. Give me a few more weeks to get my office set up. Part of my project is to wire up a hardline connection which will increase performance of my stream's upload speed.

Anyone have a drywall drill I can borrow?

Alright, I'll be looking forward to it. IIRC, you streamed TES a while back too?

[Richard Cheese]

So that's my first try with tinfins. 3-1, and the one loss was to a guy who's made the Pro Tour several times so I don't feel too bad about that. I really liked the Ominscience plan, rather than just going to 4 Griselbrand 4 Emrakul, as it's about as close to 8 Griselbrands as you can get. Showing in an Emrakul means you have to let them have a turn before you can kill them; showing in Omniscience means you can start chaining free cantrips until you find whatever else you need to win. I definitely have a couple of things I'd like to change for next time, probably something like this:

Main
+2 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Reanimate
+1 Griselbrand
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Lim-Dul's Vault
-1 Ponder
-1 Thoughtseize

Side
-1 Griselbrand (moved to main)
-1 Emrakul
-1 Boseiju
+3 Defence Grid

Interesting board. I've always felt like the problem with Show and Tell is that it opens you up to counters in a big way, and didn't really think it was workable without either Silence or Flusterstorm or both in the board as well, but maybe I'm wrong? It looks like you never needed to go for Omniscience, or maybe just never had it in hand...has it been working out in testing? I would be interested to see how it compares to Dream Halls, which would at least be slightly castable if you're boarding in Tombs.

Finally, I would cut Careful Study before Thoughtseize or Ponder, esp. with the sideboard moving you to a 2-card combo that's more susceptible to disruption/counters. Overall, awesome finish though, and thanks for the report!

[ANRoebuck]

Interesting board. I've always felt like the problem with Show and Tell is that it opens you up to counters in a big way, and didn't really think it was workable without either Silence or Flusterstorm or both in the board as well, but maybe I'm wrong? It looks like you never needed to go for Omniscience, or maybe just never had it in hand...has it been working out in testing?

I played five post-board games, of which I won three - two being Omniscience driven kills. Chaining free draw spells until you cast Emrakul for free seems a pretty solid way of closing up the game, and is far less vulnerable to their outs to Emrakul. Twice in the five games (i.e. both of the two that I lost) I showed in Emrakul to have it die without ever attacking (one LotV edict on my opponent's turn 2; one JtMS unsummon on my opponent's turn 3) - this doesn't happen if you run the Omniscience line. You also don't have to worry about both players putting in Emrakul and your opponent getting to attack first. The potential downside, I guess, is that you just play your free draw spells and fizzle. But overall I came away feeling that Omniscience was a really good card to be Showing in.

Counters are definitely an issue, which is why my first go with the deck did include a miser's Boseiju (which did do the trick in one game). For next time I want more protection against counters and at the moment I'm thinking Defense Grid might be a good shout. The ability to cast it turn 1 off Ancient Tomb is really appealing.

I would be interested to see how it compares to Dream Halls, which would at least be slightly castable if you're boarding in Tombs.

I did think about Dream Halls, as it gives you a better chance than Omniscience does to win without finding a Show, but ultimately I felt that UU was a bit too difficult a cost to reach early and reliably.

Finally, I would cut Careful Study before Thoughtseize or Ponder, esp. with the sideboard moving you to a 2-card combo that's more susceptible to disruption/counters. Overall, awesome finish though, and thanks for the report!

Careful Study was really strong with the game one plan as it's another way to get Griselbrand into the bin, but Ponder is definitely better for the Show plan. Will have to think about that one.

[Koby]

I'm going to be trying out the red splash for Burning Wish again. I don't have much expectations, but hoping that it is fruitful.

+4 Burning Wish
+3-4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Thoughtseize
0 Lim Dul's Vault
2 Goryo's Vengeance
0 Reanimate
0 Silence (maindeck anyway, maybe even SB, going in line with TES's direction recently)
0 Tendrils maindeck

Probably also going back to 60 cards since the SB space is needed for Wishboard:

2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul
1 Children of Korlis

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
3 LED

4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
1 Goryo's Vengeance

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Burning Wish

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize

3 USea
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
8 black fetches

SB:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Buried Alive (?)
1 Show and Tell
1 Exhume
1 Reanimate (?)
1 Pyroclasm (? maybe more vs UR Delvers)
1 Massacre
1 Thoughtseize (? might be overkill)
1 Treasure Cruise (? interesting from lists I've seen, emergency cantrip?)
2 Duress (for boarding)
3 Chain of Vapor (still boss)