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Thread: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

  1. #1821
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Richard Cheese - We need an small update on the opening post with an updated reference list. I suggest we use .dk's maindeck and show a few sample SBs that have been successful. It seems people are still referencing the 2 Children lists that posted well about 18 months ago, which are out of date.

    I submit this same list:

    1 Children of Korlis
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    2-4 Griselbrand
    1 Tendrils of Agony

    4 Brainstorm
    3-4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Ponder
    0-2 Lim-dul's Vault

    4 Entomb

    4 Shallow Grave
    3 Goryo's Vengeance
    1 Reanimate

    4 Cabal Therapy
    0-1 Silence
    2-4 Thoughtseize

    1 Chrome Mox
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual

    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Scrubland
    1 Swamp
    1 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea

    Also, here is my recommended Sideboard (non-transformational)
    3 Chain of Vapor
    2 Massacre
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Serenity
    3 Silence
    2-3 Surgical Extraction
    West side
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  2. #1822
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    I personally also feel that more than one Children is wrong, but Max Martinez did run 2 to 15th at SCG Oakland. Anyone want to defend 2x Children, or should we just decide that if he'd cut one, Max would have made top 8?

    Either way, first post does need an update. Suggestions for additional changes?
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

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  3. #1823
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Here is the list I ran. I should have a full writeup later tonight posted. I do have some comments on flex slots in the list, a few things I was debating with, and why I made the choices I did. I would probably not run this exact maindeck if I were on a reactive board - this transformation is very restrictive in terms of what cards can be in the 75 because of how Doomsday needs to work.


    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Scrubland
    1 Swamp
    1 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Chrome Mox
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Cabal Therapy
    1 Children of Korlis
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Entomb
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Ponder
    1 Reanimate
    2 Thoughtseize
    3 Goryo's Vengeance
    2 Lim-Dûl's Vault
    4 Shallow Grave
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    2 Griselbrand
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

    Sideboard:

    1 Shelldock Isle
    3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Chain of Vapor
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Ideas Unbound
    4 Doomsday
    Last edited by .dk; 11-18-2014 at 11:23 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  4. #1824
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Oh, and a couple more things. I would NOT recommend my 75 to people that aren't very familiar with Doomsday and/or may have a hard time constructing a Doomsday pile rather quickly on the fly. You'll likely end up losing to yourself a lot more than your opponents. But if you do think it's really sweet (and I do, obviously), test a ton of games with the transformation in and get used to some of the common piles you can make. But you probably need to do it against a real opponent, as goldfishing doomsday is more or less useless. Aside from that, check out the Fetchland Tendrils thread for a lot more info on Doomsday than is worth posting here.

    Secondly - I think we should update the section on why to play this over other decks. Particularly ANT. The primer currently mentions IT and Ad Naus in it - but that deck is mostly a slower Past in Flames deck these days that is ALSO reliant on the graveyard. Ad Naus or Tutor Chain in a pinch, but PiF seems to be the engine of choice. They have more flexibility maindeck, but we're still multiple turns faster than they are, while giving our opponents less time to find graveyard hate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  5. #1825
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Oh, and a couple more things. I would NOT recommend my 75 to people that aren't very familiar with Doomsday and/or may have a hard time constructing a Doomsday pile rather quickly on the fly. You'll likely end up losing to yourself a lot more than your opponents. But if you do think it's really sweet (and I do, obviously), test a ton of games with the transformation in and get used to some of the common piles you can make. But you probably need to do it against a real opponent, as goldfishing doomsday is more or less useless. Aside from that, check out the Fetchland Tendrils thread for a lot more info on Doomsday than is worth posting here.

    Secondly - I think we should update the section on why to play this over other decks. Particularly ANT. The primer currently mentions IT and Ad Naus in it - but that deck is mostly a slower Past in Flames deck these days that is ALSO reliant on the graveyard. Ad Naus or Tutor Chain in a pinch, but PiF seems to be the engine of choice. They have more flexibility maindeck, but we're still multiple turns faster than they are, while giving our opponents less time to find graveyard hate.
    Good stuff .dk. It was good to see you again at the GP. I might have to give your list a try some day. Doomsday has been treating me well lately but everyone needs a change of pace every now and then. I'd be curious to see what cards you cut for the transformation?

  6. #1826
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    My tournament report is up here:

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-with-Tin-Fins

    It's pretty long, so watch out. Lemme know if I missed anything, if it seems like I screwed anything up and don't mention it, or if you have any other questions about my list choices.

    The maindeck is probably only right if you're running that exact transformation. If you have some flexibility, I think you can cut at least 1 Gitaxian Probe from the maindeck, or possibly go up to 61 cards. The flex slots as I see them in the maindeck are:

    14th land
    3rd Griselbrand
    Reanimate
    Mox Diamond (I'm pretty convinced this is better than the second Chrome Mox)
    Silence
    4th Gitaxian Probe
    2nd Lim-Dul's Vault
    3rd Thoughtseize

    So some combination of those things. And the reactive board... maybe it's worth re-discussing that a bit given the current metagame. I did like your idea of Notion Thief Koby - that could be pretty real against Miracles or Treasure Cruise in some kind of crazy sideboard plan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  7. #1827
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Oh crap, I posted the wrong 75. Fixed in my previous post. -1 LED, +1 Needle in the sideboard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  8. #1828
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    I took the following list to 5 -3 at GPNJ. Bear in mind, this is rather unconventional:


    // Creature
    1 Borborygmos Enraged
    3 Griselbrand

    // Instant
    3 Brainstorm
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Entomb
    4 Goryo's Vengeance
    4 Shallow Grave
    4 Soul Spike

    // Sorcery
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Ponder
    3 Unmask

    // Artifact
    1 Chrome Mox
    4 Lotus Petal

    // Land
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Scrubland
    2 Swamp
    3 Underground Sea

    // Sideboard
    3 Chain of Vapor
    1 Coffin Purge
    3 Massacre
    3 Pithing Needle
    2 Serenity
    3 Silence


    Yes, a little unusual. Let me address some of the card choices.

    Borborygmos Enraged: This guy isn't Emrakul. He's "only" a 7/7 and doesn't have either protection or the ability to tear aeons. However, what he does have is a unique activated ability that doesn't require the combat step, happens at instant speed and virtually always gets me there on its own. When you don't need to do tricky things to get around hate, him and Griselbee combine for 14 which is always sufficient when combined with the aforementioned activated ability, his triggered ability and/or the following card...

    Soul Spike: Not Tendrils. Also not Children of Korlis, and not a creature at all. This card, while taking up more slots, doesn't require any mana investment (such as Petal >Ritual > Entomb > Shallow Grave). In exchange, it asks for 2 Black cards which are often otherwise dead in the combo phase. It doesn't have the same potential for gaining life as the Children do, however it can kill hate bears (even pre-combo) and blockers. Most of the time I point them at the opponents head, though it's flexibility is handy. Also Instant speed.

    Unmask rather than Thoughtsieze. It's my Force of Will, enabling disruption while leaving enough resources behind to combo. Also provides more Turn 1s without Dark Ritual. Sometimes it even does both, providing disruption for the Turn 1 combo. Another handy function is that it allows me to discard the second guy during the combo phase without burning a Petal. Furthermore, also does Probe duty on Game 1 Turn 1 against an unknown deck.

    4th Goryo's Vengeance, no Reanimate. Without a non-legendary creature to worry about, this is better for consistency and speed (haste). It also doesn't cost life which is often relevant.

    Coffin Purge might seem random in the board where it functions similar to regular Reanimator builds. That is, it helps in the "mirror" but more so as an out to Surgical Extraction. Can be Entombed and flashed back. Iona, Shield of Emeria is common in my local meta.

    Admittedly, this is not an ideal list. I had started this experiment as a mono black budget deck that was fairly competitive. I dipped into Blue because drawing cards is good and tweaked from there. It definitely sacrifices some things from the standard build but I like to think it has some tricks of its own. While no longer the budget list I started with, it's quite the fun deck and definitely holds its own. Perhaps there are some take aways from my experience with it for some other people. Personally, I will continue casting Soul Spikes.

    I don't take the best notes as I am usually focused on the present moments. Anyway, on to the report.

    As usual, I'm running pretty tight on time, need to resleeve my 75 and fill out a registration sheet. Luckily, a fellow local player (Albany, NY) named Kevin and his girlfriend graciously offered to help. I find my spot somewhere deep in the cavern of tables and sit down for the players meeting. Soon after, I receive a frantic call from my own lovely girlfriend whom had dropped me off at the venue and unfortunately got into a car accident. Happily, both she and my car are merely banged up a bit. However, anxieties are high as I try to settle in for a long day. My hopes are hanging on the prospect of short rounds, plenty of food in tow and my shiny sets of Unglued Rock / Paper / Scissors that had been cleared by the head judge.

    Round 1: Titus on U/R
    Titus is a seemingly inexperienced player that at first accepted my Rock / Paper / Scissors challenge but backed out upon hearing repeated announcements to only use random methods for deciding the play / draw. I'm a little disappointed but am happy to be paired against him.

    G1: I mull to a 5 with 2 reanimation spells but not much else and see he has a hand of Delver, Brainstorm, Price of Progress, Forked Bolt, Lightning Bolt and Daze. I fall into a slow rut of Draw, Disruption Go and seeing lots of land but very few meaningful cards. I quickly find myself at 8 when I'm forced to Soul Spike his Delver, finding myself in reach of his business spells. Unfortunately my only other black cards are Grave / Goryo's, without an Entomb and die 3 turns later.

    G2: I expected this matchup in which I decided the 3x Chain of Vapor is the way to go, in exchange for the Scrubland and a couple cantrips. I Unmask on the play without much else to do but luckily nab his Grafdigger's Cage, seeing Lands, Cruise, Lavamancer, Daze and Bolt. I feel more confident about this game, which is quickly eroded away as I continue to draw lands. I get hit by a Delver a few times then it's twin brother shows up.

    0-1, 0-2. No bueno.

    Round 2: Gary on U/R
    I lose the play to a Rock Lobster.

    G1: I keep a hand with Turn 1 disruption into Turn 2 combo, seeing Probe, Ponder, Swiftspear, Bolt, Brainstorm. He cantrips but I go for it anyway on my second turn, eventually finding out he was only able to dig up a Price and Pyroblast.

    G2: In come the Chain of Vapors. I went back a forth a little on how to board these all day but settle on cutting a Therapy on the draw while always taking out the Scrubland. I have early discard which sees Land, Cruise, Double Bolt and Sulfuric Vortex. I guess that's hate for us, and while I recognize that it's slow, I take it anyway. He draws into the Cage before I am able to do anything meaningful while also having double FoW and a good clock. I begin to question my timing of disruption spells.

    G3: I end up with a hand that has to find the other half of my combo while he has an average hand lacking any protection. He hacks at me in multiples of 3 until I once again find myself having to Spike a threat, putting me up to 6. He swings with his flying insect once more, after which I untap and win. Man, I love this deck sometimes.

    1-1, 2-3.

    Round 3: Mike with Burn
    Once again I lose the epic battle of the Rock, Paper and Scissor variety.

    G1: I keep a Turn 1 hand with no disrpution figuring that I can go for it depending on his Turn 1 play. He goes Mountain, Lavamancer, pass while I draw 21 and crush his dreams but not before Unmasking to get a look.

    G2: I believe I side out Probes for Chains just because. Didn't take many notes but it must've hurt because my life total reads something like 6 Lightning Bolts.

    G3: Kept a pretty good 7 with double disruption and half of my combo. I proceed to Unmask in case of hate but see a hand full of Bolts. I take the namesake one and follow it up with a Therapy on his double Lava Spike. I go off a couple turns later, attacking first with Griselbee to get out of reach then Spiking his Soul and doing the Borygmos finishing move.

    2-1, 4-4, Turn 1 Count = 1.

    Round 4: Mike the second on U/R
    I finally win the play.

    G1: I make a loose keep (bad in hindsight) that allows me to discard a Griselbee through the Turn 2 cleanup step, won't be doing that on the play again. Nonetheless, I make a demon on Turn 3 and win from 9 life.

    G2: Board in Chains again for Scrubland, Probe and Therapy on the draw which seems to make sense. I have a very fast hand that allowed me to Dark Ritual, Therapy hitting his FoW then proceed to combo. I must've either Unmasked myself or had a Petal. I want to believe it was Turn 1 but didn't write it down. On second thought, I probably had another land.

    3-1, 6-4, Turn 1 Count = 1.

    Round 5: Chris with Burn
    Back on the draw. I don't think my Lobsters, Lizards and Tigers like me.

    G1: I Probe, seeing Fireblast, Chain Lightning x2, Lavamancer and land. Hooray for the Red Decks! Unfortunately I can't do anything for a while and he beats me down. I have a lot of mostly uselss discard spells which I pitch to Soul Spike his creatures, going from 11 to 15 twice. Eventually I pull it off, swinging for 7 and Seismic Assaulting him.

    G2: I'm not sure what I opened with, but it was damn good, having only taken damage from myself and winning on Turn 1.

    4-1, 8-4, Turn 1 Count = 2.

    Round 6: Matt on Dredge
    On the draw but feeling back in business.

    G1: I have another Turn 1 hand without disruption but get to see what he's doing first. I'm starting to like being on the draw. He plays a Cephalid Coliseum, an LED and a dude while I have a little happy dance in my head. My first non-red matchup of the day, but a deck with even less interaction! I get in with my two legendary guys for 14 and trigger some enraging.

    G2: He mulls to 5 or so while I keep yet another Turn 1. Life is good! After I Soul Spike him a bunch and make the lethal attack he says something like "man, is THAT what I've been doing to people all day!!" To which I think to myself: nope, it's better. I ask him what he was mulling to upon which I find out that Leyline of the Void is one-sided. Why I hadn't realized that at the time, I don't know.

    5-1, 10-4, Turn 1 Count = 4.

    Round 7: Anthony with U/R
    Still losing Rock / Paper / Scissors. No matter how I choose to open matches, it always seems to be on the draw.

    G1: He's got a hand full of Swiftspears which hit me for a quick 1 then 5 but can't keep up with my Turn 2 demon.

    G2: The Chain of Vapor rodeo is becoming routine. Sadly I quickly lose to Delver and friends before doing anything meaningful.

    G3: I decide to bring back a Probe and Therapy on the play in exchange for 2 Brainstorms. I open a very good 7 but decide to hold back for disruption. I nab a Graffdigger but still run into his well timed FoW and am forced to fall back on spot removal mode, which is losing proposition.

    5-2, 11-6, Turn 1 Count = 4.

    Round 8: David with UWr
    I once again lose the play.

    G1: Another Turn 1 hand against an unknown deck. I really don't mind, especially after he mulls to 4 and passes without making a land drop. I still have to be careful about Force of Will but go for it anyway. I eventually look at his hand solely for information and see the FoW without a blue card to go with it (Pyroblast, Bolt, Bolt). Nonetheless, I get in for 14 and trigger more seismic activity.

    G2: I foolishly had put him on UR (Pyroblast should indicate UWr I suppose), bringing in the normal Chains. He plays a Turn 1 Karakas after mulling which lets me know there's White in his deck (something I had worried about going into the event). Regardless, I do my thing and get a demon in play and begin drawing 7 (which he allows). Soon after, Borygmos joins the legendary party and I swing. The Griselbee goes to hand while I get him down to 7 from the attack and a previous Soul Spike. Somehow, after triggering the mill 3 and having drawn 21 cards I only have 2 land. I go to Brainstorm as a last ditch effort which is met with a Pyroblast, one I knew he had but didn't think to Unmask before casting my lone Blue spell. I get into tilt mode and pass the turn, sitting at 2 life.

    G3: With Day 2 hopes on the line, I draw a Turn 1 hand with Therapy then I go in the tank. I can play around FoW, discarding it and going for the Turn 2 or FTW and go for it. I decide to Therapy, naming Force to which he reveals the Cage. GG. He makes a 4/4 Lifelink, Vigilance Germ while I start making plans for dinner.

    5-3, 12-8, Turn 1 Count = 5 (but should be 6).


    Overall, I like the deck a lot. It certainly isn't perfect, but it's a fun platform for me to tweak going forward. It far exceeded my expectations and I hope someone else gives this iteration a try, or at least something along these lines. I just want to mention that in a GPT against Omni-Tell I was able to combo off of their Dream Halls with an Omniscience on the stack. The ability to win outside of the combat phase and at instant speed is definitely relevant. Please let me know what you think, especially if the feedback is constructive.
    Draw, play Island, GG?


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    Tim: I... am an enchanter.
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  9. #1829

    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    So... I took this beast to 12-3 good for 58th out of 4003 at GP NJ! Full report coming in the next couple days, but this was an incredibly epic event. This deck loves me sometimes.
    Congrads! That's sick!!!

    I ended up like 4-3 or 5-3 before I just went to go get pizza. Then my buddy wanted to use it to blow people out in the win-a-box events.
    ::: CURRENTLY PLAYING :::
    Tin-Fins (Legacy)
    Goryo's Vengeance (Modern)

  10. #1830
    shallow
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Wow, innovative! Borborygmos is pretty sweet, and is a cool way to use different extra cards you've drawn. I like that it can win at instant speed too. Hmm, I'll have to think about that one, and whether it is better/worse/different than Emrakul and Children + Tendrils.

    You get some cool transformations with Tendrils and Emrakul, but Borborygmos is realllllly compact. I do like getting free wins against things like Painter and High Tide (sometimes, with less experienced players) by having Emrakul in the deck. I would have to think about not running Reanimate though, as T1 Ritual, Discard Spell, Entomb, Reanimate is still really powerful. I wonder if you can cut Chrome Mox from that version too? I'm fascinated now...

    I think we talked about Soul Spike really early on in the thread, or maybe that was just Richard Cheese and I brainstorming? I don't remember, but it is a pretty cool card in this deck, and makes some sense in your list without Tendrils. I'm not sold on Unmask though, as this deck already has all kinds of card disadvantage.

    Thanks for posting your list and your report!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  11. #1831
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by capricorn View Post
    Congrads! That's sick!!!

    I ended up like 4-3 or 5-3 before I just went to go get pizza. Then my buddy wanted to use it to blow people out in the win-a-box events.
    I wish you would have brought me pizza. :( I was sooooo hungry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  12. #1832

    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    ...Okay, now I've seen everything - Mad Bobby Gormless in a combo deck? WANT MOAR!

    It's a sort of a shame you can't just endlessly cycle your land like in the Tendrils build, as you lack Emrakul, though.

  13. #1833
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Wow, innovative! Borborygmos is pretty sweet, and is a cool way to use different extra cards you've drawn. I like that it can win at instant speed too. Hmm, I'll have to think about that one, and whether it is better/worse/different than Emrakul and Children + Tendrils.

    You get some cool transformations with Tendrils and Emrakul, but Borborygmos is realllllly compact. I do like getting free wins against things like Painter and High Tide (sometimes, with less experienced players) by having Emrakul in the deck. I would have to think about not running Reanimate though, as T1 Ritual, Discard Spell, Entomb, Reanimate is still really powerful. I wonder if you can cut Chrome Mox from that version too? I'm fascinated now...

    I think we talked about Soul Spike really early on in the thread, or maybe that was just Richard Cheese and I brainstorming? I don't remember, but it is a pretty cool card in this deck, and makes some sense in your list without Tendrils. I'm not sold on Unmask though, as this deck already has all kinds of card disadvantage.

    Thanks for posting your list and your report!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    ...Okay, now I've seen everything - Mad Bobby Gormless in a combo deck? WANT MOAR!

    It's a sort of a shame you can't just endlessly cycle your land like in the Tendrils build, as you lack Emrakul, though.
    Thanks guys, it's definitely powerful and fun. Many of my opponents dropped their jaws or put on a big smile when I grabbed the Borborygmos, which is always cool to see when you're turn 1ing them. I used to run Emrakul, the Aeons Torn also as my go to target for the combat step but found it unnecessary. He spent some time in my sideboard after that until I eventually cut it completely. Being able to recycle the yard is something that I haven't ever needed to do. Typically I end up pitching 2 - 4 land, with the rare occasion of going with 7 outside of combat (something the regular list can't do anyway). I never really considered the Turn 1 play with Reanimate, though I imagine it doesn't happen often being a 1-of and requiring a few other cards in the opener to go with it. With multiple Unmasks I found myself having it plenty (40+% Turn 1 at one point in the GP) but I do have to hold it back sometimes until I draw another Black card. I think you guys will find that there are regularly situations where you can pitch one, especially since my build doesn't require bringing back Children of Korlis. I could probably cut the Mox completely to offset some card disadvantage, I only cast it once and only during combo on Saturday. Meanwhile, when Unmask is good, it's REALLY good. I may have mentioned Soul Spike many pages ago but I've mainly been lingering on the thread, seeing what I can learn and apply to my build. It would be very cool to see some other people try the tech out and get some more discussion going!
    Draw, play Island, GG?


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    Tim: I... am an enchanter.
    Arthur: By what name are you known?
    Tim: There are some who call me... 'Tim'...?
    Arthur: ...greetings, Tim the Enchanter.

  14. #1834
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Borborygmos is definitely interesting. I thought .dk and I had discussed it at some point, but all I could find was a ridiculous conversation about using it to "combo off" in Modern with Pearl Lake Ancient. Worth noting that the German version is "Borborygmos in Wut".

    It definitely has advantages/disadvantages compared to Emrakul. No shuffle effect is a big downside, although you aren't going for Tendrils so that's probably not as big of a deal. Annihilator can be relevant if there's Needle or Revoker on Griselbrand, and Emrakul definitely makes a better stand-alone wincon in the event that Grizlebees gets nailed by Surgical.

    I'm actually more curious about Soul Spike. Specifically, how often you find yourself using it pre-combo to off creatures, mid-combo to draw more cards, and as a win-condition. On paper at least, 4 copies looks excessive and I wonder if it wouldn't just be better to run Tendrils and Children and have two more free spots, probably for the 4th Brainstorm and maybe LDV or the 4th Probe.

    Regardless, I would do whatever it takes to get the 4th Brainstorm in.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  15. #1835
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I'm actually more curious about Soul Spike. Specifically, how often you find yourself using it pre-combo to off creatures, mid-combo to draw more cards, and as a win-condition. On paper at least, 4 copies looks excessive and I wonder if it wouldn't just be better to run Tendrils and Children and have two more free spots, probably for the 4th Brainstorm and maybe LDV or the 4th Probe.

    Regardless, I would do whatever it takes to get the 4th Brainstorm in.
    It's only something I do pre-combo when I'm way behind. Twice it saved me from those games and I came back to win, which is definitely relevant in tournament play. As a side note, I didn't see any Deathrites or Oozes at the GP. During the combo phase Spike does double duty in terms of getting more life to draw and as a win condition (typically it takes some combination of combat damage, Soul Spike and Seismic Assaulting). Sometimes I have to resort to non-lethal Griselbrand swings to get 7 extra cards and Soul Spike from there, but it's difficult to specify when it's a draw more and when it's THE win condition. I used to run 3 copies but found myself wanting it more. In this version, it IS my combo. I would be willing to try a Borborygmos version without Spike but first I'll be testing with 0 Chrome Mox and either +1 Brainstorm or Gitaxan Probe. I've just found that Ponder is the better card. Thanks for showing interest!
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  16. #1836
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Very cool idea, and I'm interested in trying some experiments to see if there is something there. Richard does make a very good point that Emrakul is a key out to Pithing Needle on Griselbrand (and Borborygmos in your case, if they have 2 Needles). Soul Spike can deal with Revoker at least (and other hatebears). I'll see if I can figure out something I like and run it in a local or something sometime.

    I believe Koby suggested Soul Spike a couple of years ago in the first 5-6 pages of the thread, if I remember correctly.

    Definitely appreciate the new ideas for the deck!
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  17. #1837
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Koby loves him some Coldsnap-pitch-two cards. What's next, Commandeer?
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
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  18. #1838
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Very cool idea, and I'm interested in trying some experiments to see if there is something there. Richard does make a very good point that Emrakul is a key out to Pithing Needle on Griselbrand (and Borborygmos in your case, if they have 2 Needles). Soul Spike can deal with Revoker at least (and other hatebears). I'll see if I can figure out something I like and run it in a local or something sometime.

    I believe Koby suggested Soul Spike a couple of years ago in the first 5-6 pages of the thread, if I remember correctly.

    Definitely appreciate the new ideas for the deck!
    They wouldn't really need to Needle Borborygmos, since I doubt he's going to go very far in a deck with 14 lands without the card drawing power of mighty Mr. Onion Burst. I suppose you could sculpt a hand that would let you flash him in to nuke a couple hatebears through Karakas, but that seems like a bit of a corner case. Generally, I think lacking Emrakul just makes the deck slightly more all-in on Griselbrand.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

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  19. #1839

    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by warfordium View Post
    Koby loves him some Coldsnap-pitch-two cards. What's next, Commandeer?
    "Tin Fins IV: The Quest for Commandeer".

  20. #1840
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    "Tin Fins IV: The Quest for Commandeer".
    Tin Fins V: Pitchworld Meets the Helavault
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