Deepchannel Mentor Bit Janky but it should cost U under Animar, Work the same turn cast, and isn't an activated ability.
Neurok Invisimancer. Most other creatures that grant unblockable require it to have power less than 2 and/or need to be tapped.
For Trample the search gets much wider.
Centaur Chieftain
Baru, Fist of Krosa
Pathbreaker Wurm
Roughshod Mentor
Cytospawn Shambler
Elvish Herder
Might Weaver
Mosstodon
Soulbright Flamekin
Not sure which one of the trample effects are best but either Mosstodon for it being the least color intensive at 1G under Animar with 4 counters, Rougshod Mentor but that has weakness to removal, or Elvish herder for the cost of GG.
Oh and btw The gy creatures for Survival, like Brawn and Wonder
Originally Posted by Cavius The Great
The criterion for an evasion-granting creature was that it be useful when you're not looking to crash in with Animar. I suppose Soulbright Flamekin provides ramp, but can this deck even use?
Edit: In other news, Glamerdye, Alter Reality, and Whim of Volrath all provide repeatable protection for Animar. These also grant evasion. Sadly, there are no creatures that can change color words. Painter's Servant would be sweet here, but alas...
Last edited by Hunding Gjornersen; 08-16-2012 at 11:20 PM.
And Skyshroud Ranger and Sakura-Tribe Scout.
I want to land Animar, Soul of Elements on turn two, but I don't want to load up the deck with cards that are only useful once to do it. The last thing I need is to topdeck Lotus Petal on turn eight. I was running the aforementioned land dorks and cut them because I only ever activated them once per game to get out Animar, Soul of Elements on turn two.
Orcish Lumberjack is interesting though.
Craterhoof Behemoth does get Animar, Soul of Elements through, but it's not too useful after that. I'd need 5-6 creatures out to kill a single player with Craterhoof Behemoth, let alone two or three, assuming my Animar, Soul of Elements isn't arbitrarily large. It's good with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, but if I have Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, I'm going to tutor for Deceiver Exarch, Pestermite, or Zealous Conscripts. I also don't want the Maelstrom Wanderer player in my group taking Craterhoof Behemoth with Bribery.
Champion of Lambholt isn't very useful outside of an arbitrarily large Animar, Soul of Elements, but consider this. If I have the combo to make Animar, Soul of Elements arbitrarily large, I can use that same combo to make Champion of Lambholt arbitrarily large. Now I have two unblockable creatures that can kill in one shot. I can swing with the Animar, Soul of Elements immediately killing one player, and kill the other two players on my next turn. No other creature suggested can kill three players in two turns with an arbitrarily large Animar, Soul of Elements.
Hunding Gjornersen hit the nail on the head. None of those creatures do anything relevant other than make Animar, Soul of Elements evasive. Soulbright Flamekin at least does something else, but turning 6 colorless mana into eight red mana isn't something the deck needs.The criterion for an evasion-granting creature was that it be useful when you're not looking to crash in with Animar. I suppose Soulbright Flamekin provides ramp, but can this deck even use
I don't think the ideal card for this slot exists yet. We'll just have to keep scouring the spoiler lists.
I've given Whim of Volrath some thought, as it both makes Animar, Soul of Elements evasive and harder to kill. I should probably give it a shot, as it's rarely useless.
For now:
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Joraga Treespeaker
+ Champion of Lambholt
+ Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Jace, the Mind Sculptor was too slow for the deck and could be difficult to protect. Joraga Treespeaker didn't help speed up casting Animar, Soul of Elements and wasn't all that useful once Animar, Soul of Elements had a couple of counters on him.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is mainly for throwing a monkey wrench in the Maelstrom Wanderer player's plans as you can't cast from cascade with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir out. It also protects my combos from counterspells and lets me hide what I'm doing until the last minute. I've talked about Champion of Lambholt in great detail earlier in the post.
Updated first post.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Return to Ravnica changes:
- Primeval Titan
+ Man-o'-War
Sadly, Primeval Titan was wrongly banned. Shows that if you bitch loud and long you'll eventually get what you want from the EDH Council. Man-o'-War functions as another Shrieking Drake/Dream Stalker while having the added utility of bouncing opposing creatures.
None of the cards in the Return to Ravnica spoiler seemed appropriate for this deck. If I've missed anything, let me know.
Updated first post.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
- Wood Elves
- Lightning Greaves
- Deadeye Navigator
+ Equilibrium
+ Glen Elendra Archmage
+ Sylvan Library
Lightning Greaves was great for keeping my Animar, Soul of Elements from being stolen, but that's all it was good for. It wasn't the most useful slot. I almost never used Deadeye Navigator. It was just too much mana to cast it and still have enough mana up to keep him from being killed. My opponents got more use out of the card by taking it out of my library with Bribery. I don't want to be a wish board for other players. I hate the Wood Elves cut, but there wasn't a lot of other options. If I'm missing an obvious cut, let me know.
Equilibrium is bonkers in this deck. It turns all the inexpensive creatures into huge tempo boosts and lets you bounce any and all of your creatures with infinite mana, re-using their enters the battlefield abilities as many times as you want. With infinite mana and Shrieking Drake, Dream Stalker, Man-o'-War, or Palinchron, you can bounce all your opponents' creatures as many times as you want too. Sylvan Library is an auto-include in every green EDH deck. I don't know how I missed it here. It should help prevent late and mid-game board stalls while giving good card advantage and card quality. Glen Elendra Archmage is an obnoxious creature for our opponents to play against, and it's awesome with Birthing Pod. Since it has persist, you can sacrifice it to get both Zealous Conscripts and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, leading to an instant win.
Updated first post.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Gatecrash and other major changes:
- Champion of Lambholt
- Flametongue Kavu
- Tradewind Rider
- Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
- Arbor Elf
- Fyndhorn Elves
- Llanowar Elves
- Phyrexian Revoker
- Wild Growth
- Utopia Sprawl
- Pithing Needle
- Acidic Slime
- Birds of Paradise
- Duplicant
+ Sakura-Tribe Elder
+ Wood Elves
+ Mystical Tutor
+ Personal Tutor
+ Skyshroud Claim
+ Hunting Wilds
+ Mana Reflection
+ Tooth and Nail
+ Rite of Replication
+ Sakashima the Impostor
+ Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
+ Signal the Clans
+ Sylvan Primordial
+ Stolen Identity
I have a philosophy in EDH: run good cards, not bad cards. While it seems laughably obvious, it's something a lot of players, myself included, miss. In EDH, I ask myself, "Would I like to draw this card on turn seven when I'm behind?" If the answer is no, I strongly consider cutting the card. Llanowar Elves and its cousins are terrible topdecks after the first couple of turns. The only thing they do to make up for it is let me cast an Animar, Soul of Elements on turn two. I've long talked about how you want to be the third player to be scary in an EDH group, and powering out Animar, Soul of Elements super quickly is contrary to that philosophy. I've replaced them with Wood Elves, Skyshroud Claim, and the like. While those cards still aren't amazing topdecks, the mana they give survives board sweepers and helps race to the all-important seven lands Palinchron needs to go infinite. The deck really needed more resiliency to board sweepers and more of a late game.
The Shrieking Drake/Earthcraft/basic land/Utopia Sprawl, etc. combo wasn't worth running terrible cards like Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl. It was pretty difficult to assemble, especially when the deck runs better two card combos.
Tooth and Nail is just about the perfect "turn seven when I'm behind" topdeck, and as such, Mystical Tutor and Personal Tutor start to make a lot more sense. Mana Reflection and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger help take advantage of this new emphasis on Palinchron, while being incredibly powerful on their own.
Signal the Clans is a pretty amazing tutor in this deck. You can make piles like Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch/Zealous Conscripts, Shrieking Drake/Dream Stalker/Man-o'-War, or Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Imperial Recruiter/Eternal Witness. Eternal Witness kind of sucks in that pile, but at least it lets you try again. Let me know if you have a better suggestion for the third card in that pile.
Sylvan Primordial is just a better card than Acidic Slime in EDH. Especially in this deck where I can reduce the casting cost.
With so many creatures in the deck, Stolen Identity seems super powerful. It's also pretty amazing when you're getting your teeth kicked in.
Updated first post.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
I've been wanting to build an Animar deck for awhile, just need to decide if I'm making it french legal or not.
There's always Goblin Matron for the third pile. Granted it doesn't do much for the rest of the deck, but if you're hell bent on the Kiki/Mite combo it'll get you there. Brutalizer Exarch is an option too I guess...it's a little less mediocre than Goblin Matron at least.
Honestly, the deck is probably better 1v1 than in multiplayer. It's fairly vulnerable to board sweepers which is a problem in multiplayer. If you decide to make it French legal, you'll probably want to replace all the bigger spells I added with the little ones I cut in the last change. I can give you more details if you're interested.
Goblin Matron is a great third card for that pile. I wonder if an Imperial Recruiter that can only get Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is worth a slot, but I'll definitely be considering this. As for Brutalizer Exarch, I think he's way too slow for this deck. There are much better options for what he does.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
I've considered it. The big problem is that if I'm activating Survival of the Fittest it's easier to just win with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Pestermite.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
I've actually come across a few situations where it's correct to bide your time due to potential disruption present at the table. Plus, Genesis gives you a lot of flexibility. I guess you have to figure out if it's worth the mana.
I just like the idea of a really solid survival package. Otherwise, the deck looks really good - very focused which is how Animar should be played. How have Crypt and Sol Ring been for you? The deck has always been quite colored-mana hungry for me.
Here's the problem with Genesis. If I fail to win with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Pestermite the first time I try, next turn I'm using Survival of the Fittest to get Eternal Witness to get back the combo piece that was destroyed. If I am stopped again, I'm getting Phantasmal Image to copy Eternal Witness to get back the combo piece...
If I can't win after all that, it wasn't meant to be and Genesis wouldn't have helped.
Mana Crypt and Sol Ring are as amazing here as they are in any deck. There are plenty of ways to get colored mana and the speed the mana rocks give is irreplaceable. You can't rely on having an Animar, Soul of Elements with a bunch of counters. Even then, I'd run them just for speeding up the powerful instants and sorceries.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Yeah, that does seem straight up better. Plus, the cards are all useful in other situations. How often do you feel like you have to dig for Survival of the Fittest? There aren't really that many cards that tutor for it in the deck and it seems like an important component.
I guess Mana Crypt and Sol Ring are just good examples of cards that don't fit the theme of the deck but are powerful enough not to matter.
I never feel like I have to dig for Survival of the Fittest. It's nice when I draw it, but the deck can assemble the combo without it just fine. Sometimes the card is more trouble when it's worth, because people freak out when it hits the table. It's an awesome card that wins you games, but you don't need it for the deck to work.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Dragon's Maze Changes:
- Personal Tutor
- Wood Elves
- Primordial Sage
+ Plasm Capture
+ Progenitor Mimic
+ Temporal Mastery
There weren't enough good targets for Personal Tutor. I could get Tooth and Nail with it, but then the whole table would know what I was up to and would target me. Wood Elves seemed like the weakest creature. Not 100% sure if it's worse than Sakura-Tribe Elder though. Primordial Sage was redundant with Soul of the Harvest.
A Mana Drain that makes colored mana in any combination in a super color hungry deck?! Sign me up! Progenitor Mimic is a game-winning bomb all on its own. Every blue EDH deck should be running Temporal Mastery. It's the best topdeck ever.
Updated first post.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Signed up to give my two thoughts.
I still think Primordial Sage > Plasm Capture just because when you have the mana to cast Plasm Capture, you would rather be playing things to power Animar, and if you don't have anything to power Animar, or combo then Plasm Capture if a dead card. I think having the extra draw creature is a lot more effective, despite the explosiveness of Plasm Capture (thats like saying Zealous Conscripts is a dead card when your combing with Exarch)
Also, Wood Elves is better then Tribe Elder in my opinion. T1 Land + Crypt hits it, when your drawing cards with Animar + Primordial Sage the Elves nets you 0 mana while Tribe Elder loses you one green mana. Also, as a blocker you dont have to decide if you need the mana the next turn, or to leave him as a chumper as opposed to the Elves.
Hey, thanks for chiming in. Good to have you.
I'm guessing this makes my Animar list fairly unique, but my plan A isn't to power up Animar, Soul of Elements. Doing so opens you up to having all your hard work stolen with a Gilded Drake or killed with a Phantasmal Image. Worse still is Damnation which not only kills a powered-up Animar, it kills all the utility dorks you cast in the process. Now, the deck can certainly power up Animar, but I almost never win like that. Most of my wins come on the back of some variation of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Deceiver Exarch. Animar gets used as bait for removal etc. that acts as ramp if it isn't removed. When I built the deck to be all about pumping Animar, it was incredibly fragile. When I made it more about comboing, suddenly I had a strong midgame.
I'd rather be using Plasm Capture to drain a four or five mana spell into playing Tooth and Nail or Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Deceiver Exarch than to put a +1/+1 counter or two on Animar if I had the choice. Most of the time, Plasm Capture and Mana Drain read, "If an opponent would win the game this turn, instead you win on your next turn."
It's still a counterspell. If my hand had nothing to power Animar or combo, Primordial Sage wouldn't be a good card either.
You may be right, but I'm usually not drawing a ton of cards in one turn and having turns like you describe. The way I see it, both are -2 mana the turn you play them, but Sakura-Tribe Elder comes down a turn before Wood Elves. Being able to fetch basic Island is important too, as some combos need it. Wood Elves sticking around is kind of corner-case, because I don't do a lot of blocking in my playgroup.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Thanks for your insight. I guess your right in that regard for the Primordial Sage. My list is fairly similar to yours, I think I have a creature variation or two, Nature's Lore being swapped in for Hunting Wilds, Avenger of Zendikar being an alternate win-con if left untouched. I do a lot of blocking in my playgroup due to some pretty aggro decks so I personally like Wood Elves.
But for the Nature's Lore, I think it is better then Hunting Wilds because typically I have better luck at creating a presence T4 vs T2
The reason I run Hunting Wilds over Nature's Lore is that it better helps establish Palinchron. Yes, there are better four drops than two drops in the deck, but I'm usually casting Hunting Wilds after turn four.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
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