"Still-had-all-deez" is something I find to be perfectly acceptable in response to "You were dead next turn if you let me live to see it." Is it bad form to let someone tell you in vivid detail how badly you would have lost only to show them that you had the trump in your hand anyway?Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
A few weeks ago, I played against a burn player who had a Fire and Lightning premium deck with a few modifications that got the nut draw 2/3 of the games and just crushed me(I was playing Painter/Stone). After the match, he goes on to condescendingly tell me that I misplayed by playing something before I played another something and tries to give me deck building advice on what I should change about my deck. All the suggestions were bad(splash white for Swords to Plowshares and COP:red). I forgot about it and let it go until top 8 was posted and he came up to me and told me, "It looks like no top 8 for you this week." Here is the question:
Am I wrong for thinking, "Dude, you play burn...shut the fuck up."?
I didn't say anything to him because I am a better person than that and I am sportsmanlike but I really thought he was being a douche. Has anyone else had this happen to them?
Asylum EDH: Foil or go home.
Yes.
Responding to pettiness with pettiness does not a better Magic community make. In my experience, people who tell you how dead they were next turn are usually trying to make themselves feel better about losing by rationalizing your victory away as luck; they just don't take losses well. Still-had-all-deezing them might give you a laugh, but it isn't going to make them feel better about their loss, and it certainly isn't going to make them not repeat their behavior the next time they feel they shouldn't have lost. It just makes the community worse overall, and the competitive community is already shitty enough when you consider the douchebag wannabe pros, the socially inept gamer stereotypes, and the endless hive mind echo chamber of the internet.
That's certainly fair. I don't show my opponent my hand after the game to get a laugh or to make them feel inept, but I can easily see how it could appear that way to an opponent.
I have played people with all the personality qualities of a steamed vegetable. People born cacaseca simply have no people skills. But the shit that pisses me off are the twats who ask me "Done?" after every single move I make. If I ever happen to flippantly respond with anything other than a clear "no", I can expect to hear a judge call.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
First off great article. I especially liked the comments on asking your opponent about shuffling given how expensive some of the Legacy decks are.
The only thing I might contribute is on the GG subject. I believe Chapin did an article a while back that talked about post game comments. He suggested that as an alternative (assuming your opponent didn't lose and drop) that one should say "Good luck in the next round" as opposed to "Good game".
Oh one more thing to add to the list: don't play annoyingly large playmats!
I honestly think the worst thing any player can do is continuously shuffle your hand and flick your cards. If any one watches the Star City Games feature matches you know exactly what I am talking about.
This a lot.
I actually rarely say GG, as more than 50% of Magic games I've played recently in tournaments have been one sided affairs. So I just say "Good luck in the next round" and move on.
As a matter of fact, I think it is quite rude to say Good Game when the match was one-sided and one or both players felt miserable playing.
Is it really Good Game when one player locks the other from playing Magic with Thalia+Mother of Runes and next game Turn 2 Knight of the Reliquary into infinite Wastelands?
Of course it is! It means you didn't lose to Turn 1 Belcher, or turn 2 Ad Nauseum draw a billion cards then Tendrils you for 20!
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This, the linked GG article and a couple other points which I'm too lazy to point out... People who are irritated by these should play actual sports like football (soccer) to see the level of acceptable banter, mind games and the provocations that goes on. If you are not used to it you'll be pissed off and demoralized at the end of the game but the other guy will be like "hey, it happens in the game. we're cool?". I think it happens in a much mellower and passive aggressive tone in Magic. Most of us can't handle it because most of us are too nerdy to handle the competitive macho quarrel, that's why we spend hours playing Magic instead of doing sportsamirite or what?
Still mad. My poor Doomsday.
"Good luck in the next round" is probably the best thing to say. It is just an awkward default in the last round. So long as you aren't a dick, things should be fine. With the exception of maybe 2 players, everyone in my area I interact with is courteous. Play long enough at a group of stores and place every so often, and people tend to lighten up. It's only when I go to larger events and take issue with people riffle shuffling any deck that either damages the cards, or lets them see the deck as it is being shuffled and I point that out that problems arise.
Matt Bevenour in real life
First article that I disagree with a large majority of.
-Flipping your opponent's deck around: Unless you are talking about shuffling half the cards in upside-down then I think you're reading wayyy too much into the abilities of your opponent. Most sleeves look the exact same from either direction, and if anyone actually picks up your deck to cut it or to shuffle it a bit there is a large chance they will have forgotten the exact orientation they picked your deck up from. Some people play with their decks perpendicular to the table, many play with it parallel, and after picking it up you might have forgotten the direction of the cards yourself. It's not bad manners, it's an honest mistake.
-Pile shuffling more than once: If you're fast at it there's nothing wrong with it. You make the improper assumption that it randomizes the deck less than just mashing it together or riffle shuffling, but these are also inherently non-random. If you pile shuffle, then riffle, then pile again, you actually are increasing the randomness in the deck (every ~6th card, every ~2nd card, every ~6th card again gets mixed instead of just every ~2nd, every ~2nd, every ~2nd). Randomness from shuffling isn't possible, but using 2 pile shuffles doesn't mean it's less random, if used with other semi-randomization. Obviously, stalling is stalling, but that's not what this is about.
-Wearing Headphones: It must be implied here that you think everyone can understand each other normally, and no one can understand each other when 1 of them is listening to headphones. I don't agree with this assessment, as I've had many opponents who can't enunciate the difference between "go ahead" and "thinking." I've had many more opponents who listen to headphones but can communicate clearly. Some people like listening to music as it calms them. Just because you think they look like a tool doesn't mean they are one, you're just using blanket insults or stereotypes. That's very bad etiquette in itself.
-Not acknowledging when you're drawing dead: There are a million things I could say about the non-last game of the series and why you should keep playing under any situation other than the one where you think the opponent will win because the last game you play is a draw (a big reason is to see more of their deck and any surprises that might be in there). But you added "but there is generally no reason to drag out the last game in a match." Even in the last game, you may have outs you did not think of before. Unless you are one of the best players in the world you don't know what series of actions may lead you to win. The opponent attacking incorrectly, not seeing their path to victory (and therefore give you multiple turns to draw into answers), or even making some play errors like cracking extra fetch lands when you have burn cards in your deck are all reasons to keep going. Magic cards have a lot of interactions you might not have at the top of your mind when you're in a losing position, but if you draw into some card like an Echoing Truth and the opponent left up only 5 Soldier Tokens as blockers, you might have a chance to win. I have won games I thought were completely lost because I drew both of my Echoing Truths in a row in merfolk and that was literally my only out. Never give up unless the opponent has you dead and you have no chance to draw any more outs (even then they might not see the win).
-Handshakes: I see no reason this is required for etiquette. My hands are always sweaty and cold when I play, I see no reason to force this on people. I don't want to touch other people's hands either. Clasping hands doesn't show integrity more than saying GG after you lose does, so just pick a way to not be a dick and go with it. Shaking hands isn't necessary.
Emotions will always run wild at tournaments. You should try your best to not let them make you do silly things, but looking too deeply into what is bad etiquette isn't really a way to fix that (really? Wearing headphones makes you a tool?).
You misunderstand me, I'm using asshole in context of the types of behavior described in the relevant article.
The worst example of this kind of behavior is when people reserve their manners for people they have determined 'deserve it'; in other words, they act like fuckheads to psyche out randoms and then they clean up their act when it's a respected opponent or colleague. Since when was good sportsmanship something you save for people you don't have to impress?
One of the things that was impressed on me pretty early in playing the game came to me after I blew out one of the guys who taught me how to play 2-0 at an FNM. At this point I was just so used to seeing players sort through the next couple of cards in their deck after a loss to see what was coming up that could have saved them, that I didn't realize it would be rude to exhibit the same behavior if you won. He let me know right away that it was an ugly habit to get involved in; if you lost there's not much sense in seeing what might have been drawn, and if you win there's no point in seeing how many more answers you would have drawn, so either way you are just being a douche hammer.
Still Had All Deez and showing off your sideboard definitely strike me as the same kind of behavior. The usual motivation behind someone doing this is entirely just to gloat, or to impress upon someone that it was foolish to even attempt to play. That might embiggen the winning player but it does nothing for the game itself. Gloat at the afterparty if you need your dick rubbed that bad, that it isn't enough to win but to stick it in a guy's face. Yeah, I speak with a little bit of bitterness on this one; it's just fucking rude.
I grossly disagree with the part about saying GG. I come from the competitive gaming scene and in virtually all of them saying GG at the end of a match (be it CS1.6, LoL, SC2) is expected regardless of the games.
If I lose, I extend my hand and say GG, if I win I extend my hand and say GG. The only reason you could take that offensively is insecurity and the assumption that people are always trying to make fun of you.
If you say it like a dick, sure, but if they smile and say "Good games" in a non-threatening tone they obviously aren't slighting you..
GG can get on someones nerves if it's a complete blowout. Sometimes it's better to just say well played or some appropriate compliment for the given game.
I used to say GG after every match regardless of the outcome, but I have since been convinced now (by others) that it's best to only do it if you lost the match.
You never know how someone might be feeling after a loss and there's really no need to make someone feel like you're rubbing it in (even unintentionally). If they lost and offer the GG first, then by all means return it, but I won't say it first unless I lost the match.
Sensitive are we?
There is a stark difference between people not understanding the concept of a line that should move fluidly and people that say something that just rubs you the wrong way.
I could really care less if my opponent gets bent out of shape if I don't say good game in the right tone.
What do you guys expect to hear after y'all lose?
"Sorry little Jimmy about your game loss. I understand how it feels to lose. Perhaps with a little more practice and just a little luck then you might be able to really succeed with that deck of yours."
Or would I offend little Jimmy for insinuating that he did not practice enough?
Of course I am going to laugh at you if you draw nothing but Grizzelbrands our entire game. I might even do some sort of victory dance at the end of our match if I win.
At the end of the day it is just a game. I am not trying to get into my opponent's pants and I could care less if he gets offended by me.
We are really genuinely talking about different shit here. I don't need someone to pull on my dick when I lose; but you know what, I just want to play the game with people that act, in my view, as adults.
The last time I played Magic I lost more games than I won, and I did so enjoying myself because I was surrounded with people who had a similar attitude towards the game. It's not even about "competitive vs. casual", or anything similar.
That's the neat thing about being a grown-ass man, is I do decide the company I keep on my spare time. And so it follows that if I don't feel like putting up with immature fuckwads at a certain kind of Magic event, I get to weigh the pros and cons of being there against doing other shit, and if cons > pros I go elsewhere. I don't understand what's so difficult about this idea.
I feel the same. As someone who in general is 15+ years older than an average player of the game, I just find it being a bigger pleasure playing against people who already know how to behave when other people are involved. Not like in school yard.
It's a shame that people even need this kind of advise. I'd love to take good manners for granted.
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
Germ phobia like Sheldon Cooper?
I think it is good sportsmanship to offer/reply the handshake. There are sweaty & bloody boxers hugging each other after beating their ass up... A little sweaty hand is something people should be able to deal with. You can have a tissue with you to dry it.
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