Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Abyss, Trinisphere, Chalice and shattering spree.

  1. #1
    Member

    Join Date

    Jul 2011
    Location

    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts

    19

    Abyss, Trinisphere, Chalice and shattering spree.

    1) If my opponent has Progenitus as his only creature on the board, and I have The Abyss out, does Progenitus die?

    I know that as long as it has D.E.B.T. Damage, Enchanting, Blocking, Targeting. Then something with a protection from that source will be safe. However, is the "targeting" part from The Abyss? Or is it more like, "player destroys a creature of his/her own choice that he controls?"

    2) If I have multiple Trinisphere on the board, and opponent plays Shattering Spree is the copy 1cc or 3?

    3) If I have Trinisphere out, and Chalice of the Void set at 1, will it counter the Shattering Spree? what about the copies? If not, what if chalice is set at 3?

    Thank you.
    LEDless Dredge
    Braids Stax
    Armageddon Stax
    Welder Stax

  2. #2

    Re: Abyss, Trinisphere, Chalice and shattering spree.

    1- The Abyss's current oracle text: At the beginning of each player's upkeep, destroy target nonartifact creature that player controls of his or her choice. It can't be regenerated.

    2- Replicating at least twice means you pay 3 to cast Spree, so Trinispheres are ok with that. The converted mana cost is always 1, though.

    3- The original Spree is cast, so Chalice triggers. The copies, despite being 1cc, appear on the stack from nothingness instead, so Chalice doesn't trigger for them. Chalice @ 3 is useless in this case.

  3. #3

    Re: Abyss, Trinisphere, Chalice and shattering spree.

    1.) Oracle text: At the beginning of each player's upkeep, destroy target nonartifact creature that player controls of his or her choice. It can't be regenerated.

    I don't think you can choose proggy as a legal target so I think it's safe.

    2.) Multiple Trinisphere doesn't change the cost. Copying spells is not the same as casting a spell so the minimum cost for shattering spree could be 1 red 2 colorless (0 copies), 2 red 1 colorless (1 copy replicated), and value-town 3 red (2 copies replicated).

    3.) Chalice at 1 will counter the initial shattering spree as its CMC is what is printed in the top right corner. The copies will not be countered as chalice only triggers if the spell is cast, not copied. Having trinisphere out does not change CMC, so even if chalice is at 3, shattering spree is still CMC = 1 under trinisphere.

    Long story short: shattering spree + 2 replicates (RRR) destroys chalice at 1 and trinisphere.

  4. #4
    Member
    Malchar's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2007
    Location

    Roseville, MN
    Posts

    946

    Re: Abyss, Trinisphere, Chalice and shattering spree.

    1. At the beginning of the upkeep, the abyss triggers. When you attempt to put the ability on the stack, you have to target a creature. Since Progenitus has protection from the source of the ability, it can't be targetted by the ability. You'll have to target another creature if any legal targets exist. Otherwise, the ability has no effect.

    2. Replicate is an ability with essentially two effects. First, you have an optional additional cost that you can pay while casting the spell. Second, after you cast it, there is a triggered ability that puts copies of the spell on the stack, just like storm, except you get one copy for each time you paid the additional cost.

    You aren't casting the copies, so you don't have to pay extra if there is a sphere of resistance or trinisphere on the battlefield.

    When you're casting shattering spree, first, you choose how many times you want to pay replicate. Then, if the total cost of the spell is less than three, you have to pay up to three mana to fulfill trinisphere's ability.

    3. Chalice of the void only cares about the converted mana cost of the spell, which is the sum of the symbols in the upper right corner. Additonal costs or alternative costs are never counted when considering the converted mana cost. Just look at whatever is in the top right corner.

    The original shattering spree will be countered. However, the copies will never be countered regardless of what number the chalice is at because the copies are not being cast. Chalice of the void only triggers when spells are cast.

    Also, for this question, it doesn't matter whether or not trinisphere is on the battlefield because trinisphere doesn't change the converted mana cost of spells.

  5. #5

    Re: Abyss, Trinisphere, Chalice and shattering spree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malchar View Post
    1. At the beginning of the upkeep, the abyss triggers. When you attempt to put the ability on the stack, you have to target a creature. Since Progenitus has protection from the source of the ability, it can't be targetted by the ability. You'll have to target another creature if any legal targets exist. Otherwise, the ability has no effect.
    You may not have meant "has no effect" in a technical sense, but to nitpick: targeted triggered abilities with insufficient legal targets are actually removed from the stack when you get to the point of targeting. Those type of situations are rare, but it's what happens with Sea Drake for another example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telperion View Post
    I don't think you can choose proggy as a legal target so I think it's safe.
    As a reminder, providing answers is very much appreciated but please don't post answers unless you're 100% sure and can provide rules-based justification. We want accurate answers above anything.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)