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Thread: U/R/B Bob Control

  1. #21

    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    Quote Originally Posted by RJM View Post
    This is what I'm running at the moment. Partly because the lack of Dredge, but also just because I have these 3 Mana Drains, and I wanted to run them all. Nihil main is pretty great almost all the time though.
    I had the same thoughts, but decided to run it as is in the vintage for vaults tournament at GenCon. The Nihil Spellbomb was sick the entire tournament, but the Mana Drain would have been better against MUD and Fish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar View Post
    It's a core set, this is essentially bitching about a new Tonka Truck line while owning a collection of actual monster trucks.

  2. #22
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    I've really been feeling like LoA is a complete win-more card lately. It's dead when I really want an extra card. And even when it's live, I'm probably doing fine anyway.

    After some moderate amounts of playtesting, I'm certain that I'd rather it be either Tower of the Magistrate, or Riptide Lab.

    Having an extra option to either bounce Bob when he's probably going to kill me, or take Snapcaster to value-town USA in the mid-late game with Riptide has been solid. It's the more well-rounded of the choices since it will obviously be useful in any match-up.

    I've straight up won at least 3 games now out of about a dozen against Workshop because of Tower of the Magistrate. Chump block for days, or get through blockers for lethal. Blightsteel -> Protection -> Swing. Living the dream? Or legitimately useful enough on more than one occasion? I've done it. And I've had it be a LoA that I wished was a Tower.

    It's a more narrow choice, but it does its tricks, and it's not like Workshop decks aren't everywhere anyway.

    I guess I'd maybe even rather see something like Dust Bowl. Even though that's not really our game. All I know, is that I think LoA isn't doing it for me, and I'm looking for alternatives. I've even looked at a Basic Swamp.

    Thoughts?

  3. #23

    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    I would rather play another Island than play LoA nowadays.

    If you are playing vs Dredge and MUD all day long it´s not really that good. It´s a bloodbath in which you don´t have time to sit to read and draw you a pair of cards.

    And if you are playing vs blue, you'd better not mulligan because LoA gets worse and worse. Having it on the draw in your opening hand is cool. It that does not prevent you from being killed but it does prevent you from casting Mana Drain on turn 2 consistently. You'd better draw a Fluster or Fow.

  4. #24

    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    I have been on the fence with Library of Alexandria as well. I feel that it is dead sometimes, and definitely hinders certain lines of play. I was contemplating trying out Cavern of Souls in place of LoA. It would allow for Bobs and Snapcasters to resolve more in the Blue matchup, as well as sneak through a Chalice of the Void set at 2 (which tends to be a problem for this deck at times). At the least, Cavern of Souls still taps for like LoA, and I feel like Cavern would be better in this list. I know that some Bomberman pilots have been having success with Cavern, and I think that this deck would benefit from the card as well.

    Here is my current 75:

    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    4 Dark Confidant
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    2 Lightning Bolt
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Repeal
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Mana Drain
    3 Mental Misstep
    4 Force of Will

    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Time Walk
    1 Tinker
    1 Yawgmoth's Will

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Time Vault
    1 Voltaic Key

    1 Cavern of Souls
    1 Tolarian Academy
    2 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn

    Sideboard
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    4 Ingot Chewer
    2 Lightning Bolt
    1 Mountain
    2 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Pyroclasm
    2 Yixlid Jailer
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar View Post
    It's a core set, this is essentially bitching about a new Tonka Truck line while owning a collection of actual monster trucks.

  5. #25
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    Cavern, nice. I'm going to have to try that out.

    Dust Bowl is on my short list right now too actually. It did good work in some tests earlier this afternoon. It's also nice to have a way to clear an opposing Academy so that I can drop mine. Not having some way to do this also cost me a game in the same session of testing.

    Without multiple slots, or ways to recur lands, it's the best LD we can pack in a single card I think.

    I really like the generic bounce you have. But I also get all squirmy cutting to just 1 Flusterstorm to do it. I also have been looking at Echoing Truth instead because getting Zombie tokens is a nice side effect. Not sure what else I'd swap it for though.

    Flusterstorm & REB are what let me win against other blue decks, which is arguably already a bit of a weaker matchup for us.

    I've also been strongly considering the Viashino Heretic getting a slot. Freaking Buried Ruin has been popping up a lot more since BC's list placed so highly with the full playset. Sometimes I run out of Ingot Chewers because I can't close the game out, and they just put their stuff back into play.

  6. #26

    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    Quote Originally Posted by RJM View Post
    Cavern, nice. I'm going to have to try that out.

    Dust Bowl is on my short list right now too actually. It did good work in some tests earlier this afternoon. It's also nice to have a way to clear an opposing Academy so that I can drop mine. Not having some way to do this also cost me a game in the same session of testing.

    Without multiple slots, or ways to recur lands, it's the best LD we can pack in a single card I think.

    I really like the generic bounce you have. But I also get all squirmy cutting to just 1 Flusterstorm to do it. I also have been looking at Echoing Truth instead because getting Zombie tokens is a nice side effect. Not sure what else I'd swap it for though.

    Flusterstorm & REB are what let me win against other blue decks, which is arguably already a bit of a weaker matchup for us.

    I've also been strongly considering the Viashino Heretic getting a slot. Freaking Buried Ruin has been popping up a lot more since BC's list placed so highly with the full playset. Sometimes I run out of Ingot Chewers because I can't close the game out, and they just put their stuff back into play.
    If I was to cut the LoA in favor of some sort of land destruction, I would play Strip Mine. It is a lot quicker than Dustbowl, and you dont have to invest mana into it. It easily hits Bazaar, Workshop, or an opposing LoA/Tolarian Academy.

    The 2nd copy of Flusterstorm was cut because Flusterstorm is dead against any non blue deck, and it doesnt counter Jace or Time Vault/Key. I know that reasoning sounds a little bit odd, but with 3 Snapcaster's you should be able to get multiple uses out of Flusterstorm. I could see cutting the main deck Nihil Spellbomb in favor of the 3rd Mana Drain to compensate for cutting the other Flusterstorm (but this still depends on your expected meta game.

    Echoing Truth is great against a lot of stuff, but gets locked out on Chalice for two. Both Echoing Truth and Repeal can hit Stony Silence, which is my main target with the bounce spell (no green and no nature's claims), but I chose Repeal because I love the card draw and flexibility.

    I play a lot of Vintage, but most of it takes place on Cockatrice due to the lack of a Vintage scene in my area. I tend to see a lot of Fish, Workshops, and Dredge online which is why I cut the REB in the sideboard in favor of the 4th Lightning Bolt. If I was to adjust my list for a slightly more blue heavy meta game along with a fair amount of Workshops and Dredge, I would cut the 4th bolt from the sideboard for a Nihil Spellbomb, and cut the spellbomb in the main deck for the 3rd Mana Drain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar View Post
    It's a core set, this is essentially bitching about a new Tonka Truck line while owning a collection of actual monster trucks.

  7. #27
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TheElvishPiper View Post
    If I was to cut the LoA in favor of some sort of land destruction, I would play Strip Mine. It is a lot quicker than Dustbowl, and you dont have to invest mana into it. It easily hits Bazaar, Workshop, or an opposing LoA/Tolarian Academy.
    Yeah, it really is a little greedy to want to get multiple uses out of the Dust Bowl, I suppose. There are long game scenarios where this is theoretically great, which is more of what I had in mind. But I don't know that it's actually worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheElvishPiper View Post
    The 2nd copy of Flusterstorm was cut because Flusterstorm is dead against any non blue deck, and it doesnt counter Jace or Time Vault/Key. I know that reasoning sounds a little bit odd, but with 3 Snapcaster's you should be able to get multiple uses out of Flusterstorm. I could see cutting the main deck Nihil Spellbomb in favor of the 3rd Mana Drain to compensate for cutting the other Flusterstorm (but this still depends on your expected meta game.
    All reasonable assessments. You might be convincing me. :) (I just really love winning counter wars though.)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheElvishPiper View Post
    Echoing Truth is great against a lot of stuff, but gets locked out on Chalice for two. Both Echoing Truth and Repeal can hit Stony Silence, which is my main target with the bounce spell (no green and no nature's claims), but I chose Repeal because I love the card draw and flexibility.
    Echoing Truth might get locked out at Chalice on two, but the problem with Repeal is that it get's locked out if what you actually want to bounce with it is Chalice @1, which I've had happen and is definitely the more common play; and it sucks.

    (Chalice @0 though, feels really nice to Repeal.) :P

    However, that and needing 3+ mana to bounce anything bigger than 1cmc stuff gets really difficult against any kind of disruption. Which is usually what the kind of decks that are running Stony Silence/Chalice, etc are packing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheElvishPiper View Post
    I play a lot of Vintage, but most of it takes place on Cockatrice due to the lack of a Vintage scene in my area. I tend to see a lot of Fish, Workshops, and Dredge online which is why I cut the REB in the sideboard in favor of the 4th Lightning Bolt. If I was to adjust my list for a slightly more blue heavy meta game along with a fair amount of Workshops and Dredge, I would cut the 4th bolt from the sideboard for a Nihil Spellbomb, and cut the spellbomb in the main deck for the 3rd Mana Drain.
    I play a lot online too, and tend to run up against pretty diverse gauntlets of decks. So I've been trying to stay pretty well rounded with options. Which, of course, only makes these kind of tweaks more difficult.

  8. #28

    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    Quote Originally Posted by RJM View Post
    Echoing Truth might get locked out at Chalice on two, but the problem with Repeal is that it get's locked out if what you actually want to bounce with it is Chalice @1, which I've had happen and is definitely the more common play; and it sucks.

    (Chalice @0 though, feels really nice to Repeal.) :P

    However, that and needing 3+ mana to bounce anything bigger than 1cmc stuff gets really difficult against any kind of disruption. Which is usually what the kind of decks that are running Stony Silence/Chalice, etc are packing.
    Chalice on one is easily handled by Hurykl's Recall. Repeal is just a nice backup if there is a Chalice on 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar View Post
    It's a core set, this is essentially bitching about a new Tonka Truck line while owning a collection of actual monster trucks.

  9. #29
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    I've decided I want more Jace. But I'm really struggling with what to cut in order to jam it in. Suggestions?


    My current list:

    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    4 Dark Confidant
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    1 Time Vault
    1 Voltaic Key
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    5 Moxen

    1 Tinker
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Time Walk
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Demonic Tutor

    4 Force of Will
    3 Mana Drain
    3 Mental Misstep
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    3 Lightning Bolt

    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Misty Rainforest
    2 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Riptide Laboratory (or LoA, or Tower, or another basic)


    SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
    SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
    SB: 2 Yixlid Jailer
    SB: 1 Mountain
    SB: 1 Pyroclasm
    SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 1 Flusterstorm

  10. #30
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    You could move one of the lightning bolts to the sideboard to fit it in. Either that or a Mental Misstep.

  11. #31
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Copes View Post
    You could move one of the lightning bolts to the sideboard to fit it in. Either that or a Mental Misstep.
    Yeah, I was at 2x MD Blot, 1x SB for a while. But I just kept bringing it in all the time, so I moved the 2nd Flusterstorm to the SB and put all 3 Bolts main. I'd rather have one less dead card against Shops and creatures all the time, than the 1 extra counter for the blue mirror in game 1. Since Bolt also kills Jaces, it's never a waste there either.

    I probably lose the Flusterstorm #2, or REB I think. 3x Drain/3x Misstep has just been too good. I'm not sure if I like how weak I feel to other blue decks then though. Does one extra Jace help enough there to make up for it?

  12. #32
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    The extra Jace will keep your opponents Jace off the board (similar to lightning bolt in this regard), so it will help against blue. It will also bounce blightsteel which bolt can't do. If I were you I would take out the misstep (It's really only good against blue decks) -Your adding jace who out draws blue, deals with opposing jaces and bounces blightsteel. So your already ahead of the game on the blue side of things (my opinion).

  13. #33
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    Quote Originally Posted by John Cox View Post
    The extra Jace will keep your opponents Jace off the board (similar to lightning bolt in this regard), so it will help against blue. It will also bounce blightsteel which bolt can't do. If I were you I would take out the misstep (It's really only good against blue decks) -Your adding jace who out draws blue, deals with opposing jaces and bounces blightsteel. So your already ahead of the game on the blue side of things (my opinion).
    If I owned another one and there was a way to squeeze it in, I'd run a 4th Jace. At this point, the card is just too good to not want to see one in your opening 7. Even if you can only get a brainstorm out of it, your opponent still had to expend some time or resources to deal with it. It's solid in every match (need I go into detail?) . Misstep, not so much. Decks are trending away from it being an effective counter (Does nothing against Shops, Oath, Landstill, not enough against RUG and BUG). Right now my counter package is 4 FOW, 3 Drain, 2 Fluster, 2 Misstep. This has been quite comfortable and versatile.

  14. #34

    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    I am still running only 2 copies of Jace in my list. Yes he is absolutely busted and amazing, but I still dont see the need for more copies. This deck is insanely consistent and provides massive amounts of card advantage. I dont want my hand clogged with multiple Jace's, but maybe thats just me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar View Post
    It's a core set, this is essentially bitching about a new Tonka Truck line while owning a collection of actual monster trucks.

  15. #35
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    I need some input on my current decklist. My metagame has quite a bit of MUD of all varieties, Fish, and dredge. Other things I expect to see as one-ofs: Elves, Minus Six, Hate-Bears, Gushbond.

    Here is my current build, please let me know your thoughts.

    MAIN DECK (61)
    2 Spell Snare
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Force of Will
    2 Mental Misstep
    3 Flusterstorm
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    2 Goblin Welder
    3 Baleful Strix
    4 Dark Confidant
    1 Sensei’s Divining Top
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Ponder
    1 Time Walk
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Lightning Bolt
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Time Vault
    1 Voltaic Key
    1 Yawgmoth’s Will
    1 Balance
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Sol Ring

    1 Plateau
    1 Swamp
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Island

    Sideboard
    3 Nihil Spellbomb
    3 Grafdigger’s Cage
    2 Lightning Bolt
    3 Ingot Chewer
    1 Spell Snare
    2 Steel Sabotage
    1 Viashino Heretic

    I'm thinking of cutting Vampiric Tutor for Mystical Tutor, I'd like at least one Sword to Plowshares, and I'm unsure whether Spell Snare or Steel Sabotage should be main.

    Thanks for your input. Tournament for Volcanic Islands is Saturday & I am determined to walk out of there with them.

  16. #36
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    Firstly would keep the vampiric in, it does way more than mystical.
    I would keep the spell snares in they can hit spheres ratchet bomb and a few other workshop threats. You don't have the worst workshop game 1 with the strix and welders so I do't see a strong need for steel sabotage replacing them
    I don't know what to cut for swords and you still have 61 cards as is.
    Wish I could be of more help, but this brew is something I should probably tests a bit before commenting on more.

  17. #37
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    I feel it's missing something as well. I'm just not sure what. I'm also worried about my matchup with Dredge, are the Cages & Spellbombs enough?

  18. #38
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    Quote Originally Posted by infant_no_1 View Post
    I feel it's missing something as well. I'm just not sure what. I'm also worried about my matchup with Dredge, are the Cages & Spellbombs enough?
    Explosives, Pyroclasm, Needle, Cage, Spellbomb, and two Jailers. Seems like a pretty solid mix of reactive and proactive answers to me. I believe the champs list faced Dredge like 4 times in the swiss and in the top 8.
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  19. #39
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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar View Post
    I believe the champs list faced Dredge like 4 times in the swiss and in the top 8.
    He actually was 3-0 in game ones against dredge with nihil spellbomb main and Tinker -> blightsteel colossus being the MVPs.

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    Re: U/R/B Bob Control

    I'm yet to obtain a Library, but before I do - how important/redundant is library in this deck actually? If it's not that important I'd rather save the $150-200 and play another land instead (thinking things like strip mine, another basic or another utility land such as academy ruins...)

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