Best cards from expansions

[raudo]

Hello!

I was wondering if there is any list of best (legacy) cards by expansion sets? I tried to search and google a bit with no luck.

The idea is intresting if you are buying booster boxes etc. If there is no list available I think it is time for us to make one? Like top 10 cards from expansions or all (legacy) playable cards from expansions.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

"Best" as in most playable or worth the most money?

So many Legacy staples are commons and uncommons that aren't worth much, so it's much better to buy them as singles than to crack old expensive booster boxes for them. Plenty of old uncommons are worth quite a bit, like Wastleland and FoW, but many can be had for cheap.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Opening packs because you're trying to get good cards is always a terrible idea. Only open packs if you want to draft. Or are using Booster Tutor.

There are some times it's worse than others- Avacyn Restored has a better payoff than M13, for instance- but it's always fundamentally bad.

[Malchar]

There's some website that displays images of the cards in each set, and the size of each card is directly related to its price. It's a great way to see which cards are the valuable ones in each expansion. Unfortunately, I forgot the URL.

[xfxf]

I'm curious how vendors optimize the number of boxes they open to sell as singles and the number of boxes they keep to sell as individual boosters.

[Lord Seth]

Hello!

I was wondering if there is any list of best (legacy) cards by expansion sets? I tried to search and google a bit with no luck.

An old issue of Scrye printed soon after Scourge came out had a list of what it thought were the best cards from each expansion. I can't find the issue, though, and, assuming it was accurate to begin with, it's probably outdated by this point. Wasn't based on just Legacy though (heck, Legacy wasn't even much of a thing then).

Still! This got me interested enough in trying to think of the best card from each expansion set. This was done fairly quickly so there's a high chance I missed an obvious choice (for example, I almost put Glimpse of Nature for Champions of Kamigawa, until I remembered Sensei's Divining Top). Also, in a few cases I couldn't make up my mind so I put my top two choices.

So, without further ado...

Arabian Nights: Bazaar of Baghdad
Antiquities: Strip Mine
Legends: Mana Drain
The Dark: Maze of Ith
Fallen Empires: Hymn to Tourach
Ice Age: Necropotence
Homelands: Merchant Scroll
Alliances: Force of Will
Mirage: Lion's Eye Diamond
Visions: Vampiric Tutor
Weatherlight: Null Rod
Tempest: Wasteland or Earthcraft
Stronghold: Hermit Druid
Exodus: Oath of Druids
Urza's Saga: Tolarian Academy
Urza's Legacy: Tinker
Urza's Destiny: Yawgmoth's Bargain
Mercadian Masques: Gush
Nemesis: Daze
Prophecy: Avatar of Woe or Rhystic Study
Invasion: Fact or Fiction
Planeshift: Meddling Mage
Apocalypse: Pernicious Deed or Vindicate
Odyssey: Entomb or Standstill
Torment: Grim Lavamancer
Judgment: Burning Wish or Cunning Wish
Onslaught: Polluted Delta/Flooded Strand/Bloodstained Mire/Windswept Heath/Wooded Foothills (allied fetchlands)
Legions: Gempalm Incinerator
Scourge: Stifle
Mirrodin: Ancient Den/Great Furnace/Seat of the Synod/Tree of Tales/Vault of Whispers (artifact lands)
Darksteel: Skullclamp
Fifth Dawn: Eternal Witness
Champions of Kamigawa: Sensei's Divining Top
Betrayers of Kamigawa: Umezawa's Jitte
Saviors of Kamigawa: Pithing Needle
Ravnica: Dark Confidant
Guildpact: Leyline of the Void
Dissension: Spell Snare
Coldsnap: Rite of Flame
Time Spiral: Krosan Grip
Planar Chaos: Simian Spirit Guide
Future Sight: Tarmogoyf
Lorwyn: Ponder or Spellstutter Sprite
Morningtide: Vendilion Clique
Shadowmoor: Cursecatcher or Kitchen Finks
Eventide: Figure of Destiny
Shards of Alara: Relic of Progenitus
Conflux: Knight of the Reliquary
Alara Reborn: Bloodbraid Elf
Zendikar: Arid Mesa/Verdant Catacombs/Scalding Tarn/Misty Rainforest/Marsh Flats (enemy fetchlands)
Worldwake: Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Rise of the Eldrazi: Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Scars of Mirrodin: Memnite
Mirrodin Besieged: Green Sun's Zenith
New Phyrexia: Mental Misstep
Innistrad: Snapcaster Mage
Dark Ascension: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Avacyn Restored: Griselbrand

I was a little surprised to find out how weak Prophecy was. I mean, I knew it wasn't a great set, but even Homelands had a card that's Legacy playable.

[bruizar]

I'd compile a RTR guild list if I were you, since that may help you decide which faction to take during the prerelease.

[inked]

@Lord Seth: I'd say Foil is one of the better cards in Prophecy, at least for budget Legacy. Also Abolish isn't terrible.

[bruizar]

I think prophecy's best card is spore frog.

[Illissius]

Scourge: Stifle

Tendrils of Agony.
Edit: Mind's Desire

Mirrodin: Ancient Den/Great Furnace/Seat of the Synod/Tree of Tales/Vault of Whispers (artifact lands)

Chalice of the Void or Chrome Mox

Fifth Dawn: Eternal Witness

Engineered Explosives?

Coldsnap: Rite of Flame

Counterbalance

I was a little surprised to find out how weak Prophecy was. I mean, I knew it wasn't a great set, but even Homelands had a card that's Legacy playable.

Chimeric Idol? Used to show up in Pox and such, don't know if it still does.

[Awaclus]

I was a little surprised to find out how weak Prophecy was. I mean, I knew it wasn't a great set, but even Homelands had a card that's Legacy playable.

I was a little surprised to find out how weak a lot of sets were. Many cards on your list, especially those from the older sets, are below the average Legacy card. And except for Mirrodin and Coldsnap, I couldn't come up with cards that are significantly better than the card in your list.

I suppose power creep, after all, is a thing.

[boneclub24]

I'm curious how vendors optimize the number of boxes they open to sell as singles and the number of boxes they keep to sell as individual boosters.

Wouldn't it be best to just open 1 of each set for singles, since they are almost always worth more sealed?

[Lord Seth]

Tendrils of Agony.
Edit: Mind's Desire

Tendrils of Agony was another strong possibility, but I went with Stifle because it's more versatile and can be in more decks, which was a factor I considered for best card (for example, Hymn to Tourach beat High Tide because High Tide works only in very, very specific decks).

Ordinarily I might give the win to Mind's Desire because it's banned, but...honestly, I don't think it should be banned. Though on the other hand, it is certainly broken in Vintage, and I did try to look at how the cards were among all formats to figure out their power. But even then the sheer versatility of Stifle makes me consider it the best.

Chalice of the Void or Chrome Mox

Chalice is too specific, I feel. Chrome Mox is another good choice. But I feel the artifact lands are the best because they got banned all over the place, in Standard, in Block, in Modern, whereas Chrome Mox wasn't as dominant. (to be fair, Chrome Mox got banned/restricted in Type 1 and Type 1.5, but isn't anymore)

Engineered Explosives?

Hrm...I forgot about that one.

Counterbalance

I don't think Counterbalance is that great. The card is really only good with Sensei's Diving Top, and I feel that's more demonstrative of the power of Sensei's Divining top than Counterbalance. Rite of Flame, on the other hand, is able to provide the cheapest mana acceleration in Red, and got itself banned in Modern.

[Wanderlust]

N
Scars of Mirrodin: Memnite.

Mox Opal is much stronger, in my experience. It sees play in Painted Stone, MUD, Creeper, etc... in addition to Affinity.

[Illissius]

This might be one of those situations where the question is harder than the answer. What do we even mean by "best card"? Is it even possible to define that precisely? In any case, one part of our disagreement arose from the fact that I was considering Legacy specifically, while you were considering "in general".

Tendrils of Agony was another strong possibility, but I went with Stifle because it's more versatile and can be in more decks, which was a factor I considered for best card (for example, Hymn to Tourach beat High Tide because High Tide works only in very, very specific decks).

Stifle is versatile, sure. But it's not very powerful. On this basis would you put Brainstorm over Necropotence? Tendrils of Agony creates an entire archetype which at various times has been at or near the top of many formats, and gotten cards banned (among which should have been Tendrils of Agony, but that's a whole other discussion). Even if you look at only "Legacy in the present" I think you would see more copies of Tendrils of Agony showing up in tournaments than of Stifle. This is no contest, IMO.

Chalice is too specific, I feel. Chrome Mox is another good choice. But I feel the artifact lands are the best because they got banned all over the place, in Standard, in Block, in Modern, whereas Chrome Mox wasn't as dominant. (to be fair, Chrome Mox got banned/restricted in Type 1 and Type 1.5, but isn't anymore)

If you're looking at all formats ever then yeah, there's a strong case for the artifact lands. If you're looking at just Legacy I don't think there is (and presumably you wouldn't disagree).

I don't think Counterbalance is that great. The card is really only good with Sensei's Diving Top, and I feel that's more demonstrative of the power of Sensei's Divining top than Counterbalance. Rite of Flame, on the other hand, is able to provide the cheapest mana acceleration in Red, and got itself banned in Modern.

Sure, if Sensei's Divining Top didn't exist then Counterbalance would be a much weaker card. But it does exist. I suppose my opinion here is being colored by the extended period not that long ago when Counterbalance was the dominant strategy in Legacy (and I think there was a corresponding period in Extended). Rite of Flame is strong but was never format defining (albeit I have a huge blind spot with regards to Modern which I don't care about and never have, so maybe it was format defining there). This might be a question that you can find different answers to depending on whether you're considering "Legacy in the present" or also "Legacy in the past" and/or "other formats at other times".

[Lord Seth]

This might be one of those situations where the question is harder than the answer. What do we even mean by "best card"? Is it even possible to define that precisely? In any case, one part of our disagreement arose from the fact that I was considering Legacy specifically, while you were considering "in general".

Well, I was paying special attention to Legacy, but I did consider other formats. There were a lot of factors that went into some of the decisions, and I can understand how someone who put more weight on certain variables would disagree with some of them.

It'd actually be interesting if someone else were to post a list like mine so we could compare them.

Stifle is versatile, sure. But it's not very powerful. On this basis would you put Brainstorm over Necropotence?

Well the thing is, both Stifle and Tendrils of Agony are great cards, I just chose "Stifle is a lot more versatile" as a tiebreaker. Between Brainstorm and Necropotence, Necropotence is just such a monster that I don't even need to think of any tiebreaker, it just wins.

Even if you look at only "Legacy in the present" I think you would see more copies of Tendrils of Agony showing up in tournaments than of Stifle.

I did take a look at Legacy in the present. I found that the presence of Stifle absolutely dwarfed that of Tendrils of Agony.

Sure, if Sensei's Divining Top didn't exist then Counterbalance would be a much weaker card. But it does exist.

But that's like saying Grindstone is an extremely strong card because when combined with Painter's Servant, it can kill the opponent. That doesn't make Grindstone a great card, it makes the combination of the two amazing, and we're not evaluating card combinations here, just individual cards.

It's true a number of cards I put on my list are only good in conjunction with other cards, but they don't rely entirely on just one card to be playable. If removing just one other card from the game--just one!--depowers a card to the extent that taking out Sensei's Divining Top depowers Counterbalance, then that doesn't make the card good, it just makes the combination of the two cards good. Sensei's Divining Top stands as a pretty strong card on its own without Counterbalance. Counterbalance without Sensei's Divining Top...not so much.

[Malchar]

Here's that website I was talking about earlier:
http://ark42.com/mtg/pricevisualizer.php?s=Magic+2013

[Lord Seth]

Here's that website I was talking about earlier:
http://ark42.com/mtg/pricevisualizer.php?s=Magic+2013

Huh, cool site.

I find this one funny. Is there any other set with such a disparity between its most expensive card and everything else in it?

[Technics]

Huh, cool site.

I find this one funny. Is there any other set with such a disparity between its most expensive card and everything else in it?

http://ark42.com/mtg/pricevisualizer.php?s=Homelands

[Zlatzman]

http://ark42.com/mtg/pricevisualizer.php?s=Homelands

A more recent example: http://ark42.com/mtg/pricevisualizer.php?s=Worldwake. Difference not quite as big as in Alliances, but still rather large.