How did you beat infect?Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Hey guys, just wanted to talk about the land problems this deck may have. Today i just top8'ed a 76 man tournament with the following results(I posted the list on page 98):
affinity(2-0)
Team america(1-2)
jund(2-0)
Elves(2-0)
Reanimator(2-1)
Miracles(2-0)
grixis delver(1-1)(I would have won the third game but i didn't have enough time
In the top8 i lost against grixis delver drawing only one land on each game(which were wasted) despite doing 2 mulligans. The question is the following, are you having mana issues with the deck? It happens really often to me, I get hands with 2 lands that cannot survive two wastelands and have issues against one. Same goes for stifle.
Not sure if its just me or if thats the price we pay for playing this deck. I played deathblade a couple of years ago and i dont recall having this mana problems despite being a 4 color deck. The only solution i can thinkof is going up to 23 lands or adding one ponder instead of a hymn to tourach
Does anyone know of any type of "guide to sideboarding" i actually have a really hard sideblarding with this deck
I actaully jusy went to 21 lands......have yet to test it. I have a pretty high wasteland meta so i hate it
I drew the good half of my deck and he didn't have quite enough to fight through it. 1 Daze and I would have been done for.
As far as grixis I get these problems a lot too. I am just thankful most lists have moved away from Stifle because that wrecks us (Lili -2 your Gurmag, Stifle gg).
You just have to fetch basics when you can and try to crack fetches on their upkeep to make them "waste a turn" (only works sometimes but better than on your turn).
I can certainly see why some people have moved to 23 lands, I personally have not because I hate flooding out against miracles.
A ton of match ups are feeling incredibly close right now, all the other tier 1s are giving me a run for my money. I think maybe now is a good time to try some extreme innovations. Something similar to what lejay did but in a different direction.
I actually feel quite comfortable against the majority of the field. The only issue is the ands, i see a lot of wastelands right now and im siding in the scrubland in all thus mu
Go old school.....0 FOW
I kinda like the thought of being able to add maybe a jitte, disfigure, and 2nd jace to the deck over my 3 fow
I got 4th today, with my only two losses (2-1-1 in swiss, won first round of top 8, but lost in top 4) being to Dredge (Same player). I'll post more detailed posts in a day or two. Thanks for your help, I'll be playing this list with a slightly edited sideboard at a PPTQ in Denver next month, so I'll be on here with questions. I played against Burning Reanimator, a rogue MBC list with Sinkholes, wastelands, Hymns, Chains of Mephist., lili, Chalice, Bridge, you get the drift, Dredge, the draw was an intentional one for 4th round to get into top 8. BG NicFit is what he called it, it was. It's not as good without blue... We played for fun, 2-0'd him. Top 8...paired up against him. Beat him again, 2-1. For Semi-Finals? Dredge. Oh well, 8 packs I pulled Nahiri and Jace, so, I didn't win a box, but I think I'll be okay.
The showing was low, probably due to the weekend holiday, it will be more competitive in Denver, hope I can get adequately prepared. I misplayed a couple times today, but not bad enough that I think it really mattered. Nothing I lost was ever close enough to have mattered as far as I can tell.
Dredge is a very weird matchup. Sometimes they will uust get the nut that only Grafdigger's can beat, but you can't really mull a DRS hand.
Remember, you can stop them in their upkeep/draw step with triggers on the stack to DRS their shit. I have eaten many a Narcomoeba that way (many Dredge players will try to play fast so that you miss crucial opportunities).
Magic online really helped my dredge matchup by visually picturing the triggers going on the stack, I always imagine the interface when I play in paper now.
Dredge is just an annoying deck, it will never be a good deck because it folds so easy to hate. It's performance just goes and up and down depending on how much hate people pack... If somebody plays it a your LGS regulary you have to use more sb than in usual and then hope on your luck to draw DRS and SB-Hate...
What sideboard slots do you dedicate to it? What do you target with DRS, and when? I tried to think critically and I almost got there, and I misplayed once, playing a Golgari Charm in his upkeep instead of in his drawstep, allowing 2x Narcomoeba to ETB and win the game. I messed up, and it lost me a game. It's a demoralizing deck to play against twice in 6 rounds. I'd have to mess with my sideboard, and maybe I will, but I don't really know if it pays to board that way against it.
any combination of: Cage, Spellbomb, Leyline, Planar void, Surgical
Be patient with spellbomb and don"t fire it of too fast.
G. Charm doesnt seem too good, because it cant kill the Zombies, but still gets Narco and Ichorid. I would also board in sweepers if you have more in the SB. You can kill your own guys to get rid of bridge. Without it I think you can mostly handle their stuff.
Been on hiatus for a long time, this was the deck I came back to(I'll still always love Burn). I did fairly well with it today at a small ten man tournament going undefeated taking first. I beat an old Standard Kamigawa block deck, a mono red aggro deck that was piloted very well and constructed very well, Miracles, and Grixis Delver. Don't really have a tournament report, but I do have questions about side boarding options against Miracles and Grixis Delver. My deck list:
4 DRS
4 Goyf
2 Strix
4 Agent
1 Clique
2 LotV
1 JtMS
1 Sylvan Library
4 Ancestral Visions
4 BS
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn
1 Deluge
1 Pulse
3 FoW
3 U. Sea
2 Bayou
1 Trop
1 Tar Pit
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wasteland
SB
1 Needle
2 Spellbomb
1 Extraction
2 Disfigure
2 Thoughtseize
1 Null Rod
1 Jitte
1 G. Charm
1 Arcane Lab
1 Deluge
1 FoW
Against Miracles, I sided like this:
Out 2 Goyf, Clique, 1 Visions, 1 LotV
In Needle, Rod, Deluge, (i think charm if not, Extraction) and FoW
My thinking was Lili isn't that great it feels as they play off the top of their deck fairly well, but I want force him to sac something and lower his hand count because his hand is still relevant. Goyf is a beater, but there's no real value behind him and removal a plenty from Miracles. Out a visions because Counter-Top land reveal is a SoB, and Clique gets bounced all day long not closing out the game. I was thinking about using Extraction to help lower the stressing of my removal. Extract Mentor, Top, or Balance, and my game gets easier.
Against Delver, I sided like this:
Out FoW, Jace, 1 Lili, 1 Visions
In 2 Disfigure, 1 Jitte, 1 Charm, 1 Deluge, 1 Extraction
I'm going to grind them out, so FoW isn't good here. I'll never get to Jace, Lili may or may not be good here, I wasn't sure, and visions because I wanted business instead of just durdles. I think I would have been fine leaving it in and not bringing in Extraction. I thought about Extraction to snap Angler out of here and not have to worry about something outgoyfing my goys.
Please, comment about my deck list and on my side boarding strategies. I can really use help in that area. Thank you!
Interesting...
Can you do an analysis of the MU (decks to beat)? In more difficult beat Miracles or Grixis?
I'm not quite sure I understand your question? Not trying to be an anus here, but I'm genuinely unsure what you're asking.
I think he wants your SB plans vs Miracles, Grixis, Mirror, DnT, Eldrazi.
Then he wants to know which is more difficult, Miracles or Grixis.
I feel like Shardless is favored vs both.
I think is favored against miracles but if grixis plays stifle and wasteland it can be a really tough MU. Bringing the scrubland from the side if you have it can help a lot.
Against miracles if any I side out one goyf, the pressure it make is more important. I usually side out 2 baleful, 2 liliana and maybe toxic deludge. Toxic I am not sure if its the correct decision but generally with abrupt decay I have enough. Regarding Vendilion i actually bring her in, its one of our answers to jace, not just because you can put it back into the library but because it can be cast when they tap out for jace and kill it.
Against delver strategies I think your strategy is good. One interesting thing to try is siding out hymns instead of fows. Before I always liked leaving hymns like you, however reading through the TA thread I came across some arguments from a guy who won several big tournaments that he recommends shardless players to leave in fow, the reason for this is drs. In his opinion, which I agree, drs is the card that wins this MU. the mana advantage and being able to respond to our shaman activations makes them a valid fow target. I feel more comfortable agaisnt TA with this strategy, it is 0 mana cost answer that can save you from threats. I would leave lili against TA and side it out against grixis.
A part from that as personal preference I would play 3 AV and 4 fows.
Ah! Ok. Well, I'm kind of winging it as I go. I did a little bit of thinking, a lot reading, and now I'm putting things into practice. My sideboard strategies against Grixis and Miracles have already been revealed.
Against Mirror, I simply take out Forces and bring in two Disfigure and the Jitte. The reasoning behind FoW out is that I know this deck will grind people out, card advantage is the real issue here, so two for one against yourself is something I seriously feel bad doing. The Disfigure kills DRS and opposing Goyfs and since this is a creature battle, Jitte does this repeatedly while closing the game out quickly. Maybe out Clique for another Deluge if the opponent likes to really aggro out, maybe?
For DnT, this is definitely in our favor, but D&T players that are actually good play extremely tightly. One false move on your part and it will be all over. I've thought about keeping FoW in for Vials, but that's feels like a bad idea, so they come out along with Jace and one Visions. Tons of card draw already, and it might be hit with Spirit of the Labyrinth if it's ran. Jace and Lili will be hit with Needle effects, but Lili is cheaper through taxing and kills things. Disfigure is brought in as cheap removal, Rod to blank all of their artifacts, Charm for mass removal and an answer to RIP, along with regeneration if Cataclysm is cast(total blowout). Deluge is brought in because Crusader is such a beast, especially with a weapon attached. I also think another card should be taken out to bring in Krosan Grip, but I'm not entirely sure what card. Clique, maybe? I haven't really found a use for Clique outside of combo match ups. I'm probably playing her wrong. Grip seems amazing here though, so I would probably side out Clique for it. Kills all equipment, stops Jitte, Vial and Skull by surprise, kills RIP, Revoker, it just seems to do a lot now that I think about it.
Don't know about Eldrazi. This wasn't a deck when I stepped away and I haven't read anything about this match up other than we are favored. Deck construction seems to be a factor in that running three Wastes instead of two can mean a world of difference. I would definitely bring Clique out here and bring in Deluge. I feel like they want to flood the board and our smaller creatures are outclassed. Go Goyf or go home. Except for Strix. Go Goyf/Strix or go home. :P
Out of all of my match ups, I feel like Miracles is the hardest. So many mind games, so many guesses, so many big events to overcome just to try and stay in the game, not just to win. Delver is just a swingy match up and it's over quickly. I much prefer quick deaths than slow ones. I almost never quit though.Wouldn't keeping Strix in be ok due to being a roadblock? I could be over thinking that, however. As I'm typing this, I'm realizing that I will probably die in one shot. I agree about Lili. She seems underwhelming whenever I draw her, especially on a board where Mentor is already out. She seems less impactful these days. I honestly feel like Goyf can be a detriment here though. One landed RIP and Goyf AND DRS are useless. DRS feels like the better of the two because of his uses. I will try out your strategy though. I'm arguing to better understand the ideas behind the decisions.
I have to disagree completely with siding out Deluge. I've played against Mentor centric Miracles and there's just too many things to kill and four Decays aren't enough. Wiping the board is usually what one deck doesn't want the other to do, but doing it when we want helps. It's also why I bring Grip in in this match up. I want to kill all of their things. Not just because I hate their deck. No... No, it's because I hate their deck. >:D I'll try Clique out against Miracles. I haven't ever, yet.
I don't understand the acronym use of "TA," and why four FoW and less Visions?
TA is Team America, or BUG Delver w/Hymn to Tourach.
Clique is very good against Miracles because you can also play it in response to the Miracle trigger. They have to reveal the card before they can play it, and while that is on the stack you can Clique and put that card on the bottom of their library. Can lead to a blowout when you have a large goyf on the board or stop them from making some angels.
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