I would 100% of the time force top there, games go long and it is their best card vs this deck. Them without top makes your discard better and some decks dont even play angels anymore.Originally Posted by minyafriend
Sylvan Library
It depends on how they're set up. Vision is obviously great preboard, though it's worse postboard when they bring in Blasts. Garruk Relentless is exceptional if they're not heavily committed to Mentor, and Sylvan Library creates a lot of advantage in long games. Hymn is great if you're on a fast draw and can operate more-or-less like BUG Delver, or if they're on a heavy Mentor build. Against the Predict/Mentor builds it's often possible to play the control role much more easily than it is against rhr Entreat builds, as Deluge can often just Time Walk them. I think that their heavy complement of Red Blasts postboard actually makes Jace pretty unimpressive at this point. Sidestepping them with nonblue Planeswalkers or something like Painful Truths might be better even though Jace is better on absolute power level.
This is an interesting line of thought. Sort of like my comments on Hymn above, I definitely see the logic if you had Agent or Goyf or if they led on Tundra and you could Wasteland them. As it is, you're not going to be able to capitalize on their lack of Top with just Deathrite for pressure. The other problem with Forcing there is that Brainstorm is your only blue card and the hand is light on things to do. I don't think you're locked in to Brainstorming next turn, but unless you find business in one of your next two draw steps it's probably necessary soon.
Forcing an early top can lead to them missing land drops early, making their midgame less powerful, which can let you win before they turn the corner. I also try my best to keep Top off the table. I mean, this deck draws well. Hitting gas in 2 turns or less makes it a good play imo.
Went 0-3 in a small event today. I actually didnt win a single game.
Lost to:
Infect
Junk deathblade (a really bad version of it)
Nic fit (jund colorset)
I had terrible draws. Terrible hands, the works. Iverall im rrally disappointed. I will give it another week before i go back to a delver deck and work to convert shardless to waterfalls...this deck needs a timeout lol
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Meta sounds awful for Shardless.
What would an idea meta look like im not really aure what i should move to.
Keep in mind i do play against miracles, d&t, grixis delver also
Im interested in RUG Cascade (waterfalls), delver (RUG is my love but i know grixis is the new hotness, jund, abzan stoneblade....all of which ( aside from delver) have more removal
Aside from Nic Fit I think those are all good matchups. I realize we have very different experiences against Blade decks.
Aaide from Nic Fit and D&T those are all even-to-favorable matchups. I'd stick with Shardless for a bit, you might just need practice.
I think this is fine reasoning if you have a way to capitalize on them not having Top, but without Hymn or another threat you're throwing away a Brainstorm for a pretty minimal gain.
I think Junk blade is not a favorable matchup, at least if they are running Hymn to Tourach.
I remember when I first got Shardless on MTGO, I was playing in the 2 man queues and this guy:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/273651#online
Just kept farming me. Lingering Souls matches up so well vs Hymn and Lili, and there are so many must-answers for us (Bob, Stoneforge, Equipment). I hated having FOW in my deck for g1 while my opponent has 2-for-1s instead.
The only way we can win is if they stumble on draws or we just hit nut cascades imo. One thing that can help is Night of Souls' Betrayal out of the board, but if they are on a more Goyf heavy version that might not be good enough.
Infect is fine, and the Miracles/Grixis Delver should be closer to even/favorable.
If they're running all of Mom, Bob, Lingering Souls, and Thalia, then I can see it being tough, but then they're playing Maverick. Most Junk Blade decks I see aren't running Mom, so maybe we're referring to different decks. I usually find that it isn't hard to beat them on velocity and random bodies like Shardless Agent matter a lot. It could also have something to do with me running more removal postboard than most other people.
With these creature heavy decks im playing against (infect, deathblades, d&t, nic fit) it makes me almost want to move my hymns to the board and have more removal main but im not sure. I may try out "waterfalls" or jund as they have more removal....i also have a junk blade deck of my own that may do well
More removal main seems like a reasonable approach. I think RUG Cascade is a garbage deck, so I can't recommend playing it.
Its a little odd to me as well but there is a guy in town having mild success with it. But i really hate having the same deck as someone i know, so i will try to add more removal to shardless. Im thinking -3 hymn/+2 disfigure +1 dismember.....moving the hymn to the board for combo/aether vial decks
I placed 3rd today at Black Gold in Denver at the SCG IQ. 51 players in attendance, 6 rds of Swiss, cut to top 8. I went 5-1, a greedy misplay cost me a match loss in Rd 1, had it won and screwed it up, oh well, did good. I'll post more tomorrow, just got home 4 hrs later and now it's midnight. I'm wiped.
Went 5-1-1 at a local 1k. 40 people. Beat death blade three times, DnT and grixis delver. Lost to tin fins. I'm starting to think that we should just not board vs the bad matchup (burn) and only focus on the slight bad matchups.
I like this approach. What cards are in your board for Burn?
I don't really recommend this, because Hymn is a 2 for 1. I know I am probably more happy about keeping it in vs midrange decks than other people in this thread, but removal is just 1 for 1. Shardless into hymn is a 3 for 1, and hymn by itself is at least a 2 for 1. Card advantage is super important in these matches. I might go down to 2 hymn and add 1 Dismember, then feel it out from there.
I had a chill and a white leyline
I agree with this too. It's just not worth doing.
I tend to board Hymn out against creature matchups if at all possible. Removal (especially instant speed removal) is much more similar to a counterspell than discard is, and is a much better late game topdeck than Hymn. The deck is already so full of X-for-1s that Hymn isn't needed from a card economy perspective, and it's actually often a dead draw step (which is card disadvantage) by the midgame, and is a massive tempo suck if you have to cast it from behind on board. Removal on a clean board is still live in a way that Hymn against a hellbent opponent isn't. If my opponent is holding cards like permission or combo pieces in hand, then Hymn is the best card in the deck. If we're both playing to the board, Hymn is still great if we get ahead early but it's a terrible topdeck and is actually counterproductive from behind.
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