Took the deck to a four round tournament tonight and went 1-1-2. The last round we went to game three with ten minutes left so I had a lot of misplays. A lot. And it was against a Junk colored deck with no Stoneforge Mystic and running Lingering Souls. First time piloting the deck, and I am not entirely sure i should be running twenty two lands, but the color sensitivity is crucial so I think I'll leave it alone until I get more in tune with how the deck goes. I am coming from Burn, sweet, sweet Burn. I beat Reanimator(home brew for the most part), draw against the mirror, lost to Dredge and that Junk deck.
My list:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
1 Disfigure
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Creeping Tar-Pit
2 Wasteland
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Thoughtseize
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Sylvan Library
1 Null Rod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Arcane Laboratory
1 Vendilion Clique
First change I want to make is have a second Jace and maybe move Lili to the side replacing either Thoughtseize or Hymn, or just take Lili out completely. Not sure yet, but I feel like discard isn't the greatest right now with all the DTT running around. I also want Krosan Grip in the side and take out a Needle. Could you guys give me sideboard suggestions? Here's what I did against my opponents:
Dredge - Out Hymn
In Nihil Spellbomb
Mirror - Out two Force, Jace, Toxic, Thoughtseize
In Decay, Charm, Library, Jitte, and Clique
Game three I switched Lili for Jace. I did this for another win con and since I'm not longer on the play, tempo was no longer in my side.
Reanimator - Out Hymn, Disfigure, one Decay, Toxic
In Spellbomb, one Needle, Arcane Laboratory, Clique
Junk - Out Lili, Hymn, two Force
In Decay, Charm, Library, Rod and Clique
Game three I dropped Clique for the second Deluge. After my opening seven, I realized Clique is really bad in a game full of Souls.
Also, yay! We are in DTB!
Nice to be back in DtB, let's hope DTT gets the axe as well as icing on the BG/x Cake :)
I don't play the same list as you so I don't have a clear side-board table, but you should never cut Jace in the mirror. It's probably the best card in a match that will likely stall out and go long.
Hi. I’ve been playing this deck at my weekly lately and have wound up 2-1-1 (ID) both times.
--
This owes a tremendous amount to this list (1/47) from Stephane Soubrier:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10125&f=LE
4 Deathrite
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Toxic Deluge
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
SB:
1 Savannah
4 Meddling Mage
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Night of Souls’ Betrayal
--
Last week:
Round 1 I lost to Lands, partly because I forgot Thespian’s Stage keeps the ability to turn into something else again and missed a key chance to Waste him before Marit Lage happened. In general it’s a hard deck for us to interact with though, no?
I then got paired against a kid I knew to be on Belcher, mulled to a six with FOW, which I used T1 before he got to four mana, then ground out his remaining hand with Liliana. In game two he brought it like six Pyroblasts which made short work of Meddling Mage but Null Rod is awesome against Lion’s Eye Diamond so I got there anyway.
I then lost game one against Omnishow but rolled him in games two and three bc hand-hate and Meddling Mage.
Being 2-1 I then gamely ID’d with my last opponent, who it turned out was on Merfolk. We played just to see what would happen and I rolled him 2-0.
All very nice opponents btw.
--
This week:
Mulled to six, kept a hand with fetch, Deathrite, Brainstorm, 3x Shardless Agent. Proceed to brick on lands until about turn 5, Deathrite gets killed, scoop to Jace.
G2 I teased out a FOW with T2 Sylvan, then started applying pressure with Goyf, DRS and Liliana. He’s hellbent when he miraculously Entreats for 3 Angels off the top and turns the game around. Life sux.
R2 I get paired against Miracles again, this time with Back to Basics, but G1 it’s him who gets locked on land and I step all over him with guys and Jace.
G2 Null Rod baits out the Force and then a Shardless makes my hand real big and I play planeswalkers and Needle on Divining Top and his deck hates him and he dies. Not sure how much credit my deck and I can take for that.
Round three I am paired against Death-n-Taxes which apparently just has a really hard time with maindeck Toxic Deluge. G2 is seriously inconvenient because he lands a Rest In Peace which makes my Goyfs and Deathrites shitty (and by extension also Shardless into them is unimpressive, that happened twice) but he always has something else I’d rather be Abrupt Decaying (like Needle on Liliana) so he dies a slow miserable death as much to meh topdecks and my planeswalker activations as to actual things that kill him, like Deathrites attacking for 1 each. Sorry dude.
Round four I am paired against the same Merfolk played and we ID once again, which is good because in playing random games for fun this was not the same thrashing I handed him last week.
--
Potential tweaks:
The MB Vendilion Clique feels kinda random and I’m not sure if I’m playing it correctly. Not sure if Baleful Stryx is what I want there instead. Have thought about other MB handhate like Hymn or Thoughtseize, as exemplified by Michael Braverman and others, but part of me just hates on Dig Through Time. I know, it’s unprofessional.
Think there’s an argument to cut a Vision as well but actually just playing it on T2, it tends to resolve right as we’re both stalling and makes my life awesome.
Night of Soul’s Betrayal costs a lot. It’s possible it should just be Golgari Charm or Engineered Plague.
--
Sideboarding:
Against Miracles I take out all three FOW and I can’t remember what else. My logic is FOW is not where the profit happens. Bring in Needle, Null Rod and I think hand hate. Recommendations?
Anyway looking forward to getting y’all’s input. I like this deck a lot lately.
And yes, I can see the argument for putting Liliana in the sideboard and mainboarding stuff like Hymn/Thoughtseize.
Yep.
"It possesses no intelligence, only counter-intelligence."
I don't board out Fow against Miracles. You will just die instantly to entreat otherwise.
Likewise. You get so much CA from things like Visions, Agents etc that the card you pitch is acceptable.Originally Posted by LarsLeif
SBing is quite dependent on what versions of miracles you're playing against.
Stéphane was planning to play my decklist (the 75 I played from summer 2014 to treasure cruise release). He just didn't have the 4th fow because the lender didn't come and he replaced it with what he had.
CLICK HERE FOR THE RULES OF A VERY FUN MULTIPLAYER CASUAL FORMAT
You very likely can build it without spending any money, just out of what you already have.
An example with my (very large) list in a visual form
This isn't exactly "Shardless," but after trying this style out and doing some tweaking I went 5-2 with a variant somewhat along these lines, essentially with Dark Confidant and Baleful Stryx in lieu of Shardless Agent and Ancestral Vision.
Tournament report here, if this is interesting or gives you ideas:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...969#post903969
(cross posting to BUG Delver thread as well)
"It possesses no intelligence, only counter-intelligence."
What's the game plan against Infect and Merfolk? I feel like they are winnable match ups if I can play better instead of the deck pretty much piloting itself.
Infect is very beatable.
Merfolk is not a great match-up. Your game plan is to cast goyfs and turn them sideways. If you have the ability to turn your deck into B/G removal you should do so.
Infect you attack their hand and kill everything they play. Tarmogoyf and JTMS are really bad and you don't want to draw them. Do not race them. You will lose. Just kill everything they put out, and strip their hand into oblivion.
Cast your instant speed removal against infect on your own turn, so that their vines just trade card for card, rather than trading plus pumping on the swing.
So I was correct with boarding out Jace. I'm surprised about Goyf though? He's our finisher. I'm guessing we just disintegrate their hand and beat face with Agent and drain with Shaman?
Is there ever a time we side Agent out?
Is this deck getting better or worse with dig ban? opinions ?
Although I don't usually play Shardless, Dig being gone is a major boost to attrition strategies. This will most certainly help Shardless, even if you weren't playing Hymn.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
DTT is gone and the format will look like to mid 2014.
Top 3 decks
Bug delver
Miracles (for me, the best deck)
Sneak show
Decks that will see more play
Tempo decks with stile/wasteland
Death and taxes (punish sneak/show)
Elves (grixis crushed it)
Infect (grixis crushed it)
Stoneblade with true-name
Punishing Jund
Decks that leave
Omnitell
Grixis Control
Grixis Delver
My feelings
- Stilfe/wasteland is dangerous for us. We should run basics and strix becomes better.
- Liliana is way better whitout Dig and pyromancer.
- Hymn is better as well
- We will see much more bg decks. Notion thief makes a come back?
- Shardless like to play against miracles.
- We will see less reb effect main decks. Visions and Jace becomes better.
I was confortable playing shardless in the DTT era because the format was slower, with less mana denial. As a shardless player, I prefer playing agains grixis decks all day instead of bug delver, infect and death and taxes.
Yeah, BG decks will be coming back in full force due to grinding opponent's down is viable again. Jund should be coming back, so Surgical Extraction might be something we want in our boards to help against Punishing Fire. Miracles will be a deck, RUG Delver should be coming back. I'm not expecting Sneak & Show though. Death & Taxes stomps that deck out and D&T was pretty popular before Khans was legal.
sneak and show has to beat containment priest out of the boards now and I doubt it will make a reappearance unless people will find out some new idea such as boarding omniscience in order to fight match ups where karakas and priest are a problem
So with the anti discard spells out of the picture what is the downside of maxing out on hymns mb?
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This is an interesting question. I don't think its appropriate to play more than 3 hymns for a couple reasons.
1. Card draw. With this deck we see a lot of cards. I like having a variety of cards so having one ofs like toxic deluge take slots from the 4th hymn.
2. Hymn is on the radar. People will be ready for hymn to make a huge comeback. Decks will be ready to combat this card with cards like misdirection. Also, hymn isn't great vs decks like Deach and Taxes which are likely to be popular.
3. Force of Will requires a lot of blue sources. If you're overloaded on black spells it reduces the potency of FoW.
4. It's a one mana format. I have a hard time playing 4 2 mana cost discard spells. I think thoughtseize should take up at least one main deck discard slot.
I've been playing 3 hymn main with one side, and I've been happy with that configuration.
Hello!
I just completed this Deck in paper. Played it online for like 2 months. First time for me going into legacy seriously. Playing jund i modern for some years but since starting to try out legacy i have found a new favorite format.
I would really like to hear what you think of my list as you been playing this deck for a longer time then me. I have done 80 games on mtgo tournament practice and is currently 50/30 in wins and losses.
As you can see i have the discard package in the board, have been for the dtts running around but might change it now after the Ban. I do however like running cards like Sylvan in the mainboard.
/weiuweiu
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
2 Baleful Strix
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Force of Will
1 Ponder
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sylvan Library
Sideboard
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Thoughtseize
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Duress
1 Golgari Charm
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Disfigure
Skickat från min E6553 via Tapatalk
Hello!
I have a Maverick deck, but I've been looking to upgrade to some other legacy deck and Shardless BUG had caught my eye.
How has the recent Dig ban effected the deck? Has it made the deck itself much worse? Has any bad/good matchups changed (because they don't have dig anymore)?
Edit: I'm thinking about running 3 planeswalkers MB. Though I'm not sure on the split, currently thinking about 2 Lily 1 Jace, what do you guys find is the best?
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