[Deck] BUG "Shardless" Control

[ironclad8690]

So I played in the legacy challenge this past weekend, and I started off very well at 3-0. The wheels fell off however, and I finished in 34th place, outside of making my entry back.


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Baleful Strix
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
3 Ancestal Vision
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Thoughtseize
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse

3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit

Sideboard
2 Fatal Push
2 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Thoughtseize
1 Hymn to Tourach



Bug Delver: 2-1

RW Painter: 2-0

UR Painter: 2-1

Lands: 1-2 (punted this away)

Sneak and Show: 1-2

Burn: 1-2

Miracles (3 Predict variant I believe): 0-2

For a total record of 3-4.

The takeaway: I think the deck is still fine, but the online meta is heavily skewed anti-bug at the moment, probably because of the last GP. The miracles lists are playing 3-4 Predict and 4 Blasts, which really changes the matchup in their favor. I felt like I wanted the 4th Wasteland, and I felt like I wanted a Life from the Loam and a Jitte in my sideboard. I also felt like I wanted TNN in my maindeck as a threat that could stick around and demand a narrow answer. Either way I think this deck needs a major rework to be truly competitive again.

Thanks for reading!

[Krimson Viper]

When I had Jitte in my board, I almost never brought it in. What are you guys using it against? Honest question.

[ironclad8690]

When I had Jitte in my board, I almost never brought it in. What are you guys using it against? Honest question.

I mostly wanted it for Burn. I bring it in vs most creature matchups though, where you want more removal (Elves, Delver, Midrange).

[FZA]

When I had Jitte in my board, I almost never brought it in. What are you guys using it against? Honest question.

Jitte is amazing against Elves, D&T, and Burn. All of which can be difficult matches otherwise because the former 2 have more creatures than we have removal and the latter has inevitability that's sort of taken away by a Jitte if you can get it going.

It's also fine in the mirror, though not amazing by any stretch.

[Krimson Viper]

Ok, I can see the others, but not D&T. There have been a lot of times where I will have a Jitte, but the artifacts on the otherside are a huge problem, so then I'll drop Null Rod which I brought in. I always bring Rod in because it has such a huge impact against D&T, or am I side boarding differently than you guys?

[FZA]

Ok, I can see the others, but not D&T. There have been a lot of times where I will have a Jitte, but the artifacts on the otherside are a huge problem, so then I'll drop Null Rod which I brought in. I always bring Rod in because it has such a huge impact against D&T, or am I side boarding differently than you guys?

I've been running 2 copies of Pithing Needle over Null Rod. Miracles is my main target for those cards, and while I have usually ran 1 and 1 I've recently started to like Needle more because it not only hits Top but can also hit Jace/Gideon in a pinch.

It also shuts off half of Sneak & Show, and can even be put into play off of Show and Tell to name Griselbrand (sounds niche and it is, but this has won me games in the past).

Against D&T it can name MoM and Port in addition to the artifacts if necessary.

All around Pithing Needle is just becoming one of my favorite cards in the format.

[Merrioc]

Is there a BUG Aluren forum?

[Krimson Viper]

There is an Aluren thread.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...99-Deck-Aluren

[FZA]

It sort of saddens me that this thread, and also this deck, are pretty dead right now. With Miracles no longer being the favorable matchup it once was, and the rise of some other poor matchups, is it time to hang up the Agents at least for now?

[ironclad8690]

I'm still grinding leagues with it. Perhaps foolishly. Part of me wants to splash red for BBE and Pyroblast

[Krimson Viper]

It sort of saddens me that this thread, and also this deck, are pretty dead right now. With Miracles no longer being the favorable matchup it once was, and the rise of some other poor matchups, is it time to hang up the Agents at least for now?

I haven't been having an issue at my local level. Perhaps people are morphing the deck too much and forgetting where it came from?

[pipet76]

I haven't been having an issue at my local level. Perhaps people are morphing the deck too much and forgetting where it came from?

I can agree to that.

In any case more often people tend not to use Hymn when I've always ran 3 of them to splash them with some TSeize. That could be one of the problems.

Also, some players are using 2 mainboard leovolds making this deck even slower than before, don't know if that other great idea

[Krimson Viper]

I can agree to that.

In any case more often people tend not to use Hymn when I've always ran 3 of them to splash them with some TSeize. That could be one of the problems.

Also, some players are using 2 mainboard leovolds making this deck even slower than before, don't know if that other great idea

I've actually moved all discard to the side and took the advice of WCM8 in taking advantage of what match ups the deck really destroys: all fair decks. Game one was never positive and I've always felt like trying to shore it up at the sacrifice of hurting my game ones against decks that I'm suppose to beat was a sacrifice I am ok with. I'm still up in arms about Leo in the deck. I have no complaints as of yet. Emphasis on "yet."

[FZA]

I haven't been having an issue at my local level. Perhaps people are morphing the deck too much and forgetting where it came from?

That could be it although there are some troubling signs regarding Shardless in the current meta.

Miracles lists have moved to 3-4 Predict, which means they're basically sideboarded against us in game 1. Many have also gone down to 3 CB, and have gone back to Entreat as a win condition, which is much harder for us to deal with than Mentor. They're also all playing 4 red blasts in the board for the mirror, and we get hit by the splash damage of that. Between those, snapcasters, and counterspells, our AV and Jace can't resolve reliably.

Being that one of Shardless's main strengths traditionally is that it beats up on Miracles, this isn't good at all.

There's also the rise in popularity of these herp derp turn 1 blood moon decks, which are miserable for us to play against.

If you think about it over the past year or two other decks have gotten new tools: Delver got Gurmag Angler, Miracles got Mentor and Predict (ok Predict is not new but it's a pretty recent innovation), D&T has gotten a bunch of pushed creatures. Shardless has really only gotten Leovold, and Leo fits better into other decks than this one IMO. So I guess it's not terribly surprising that Shardless has lost some ground against the field.

[Krimson Viper]

That could be it although there are some troubling signs regarding Shardless in the current meta.

Miracles lists have moved to 3-4 Predict, which means they're basically sideboarded against us in game 1. Many have also gone down to 3 CB, and have gone back to Entreat as a win condition, which is much harder for us to deal with than Mentor. They're also all playing 4 red blasts in the board for the mirror, and we get hit by the splash damage of that. Between those, snapcasters, and counterspells, our AV and Jace can't resolve reliably.

Being that one of Shardless's main strengths traditionally is that it beats up on Miracles, this isn't good at all.

There's also the rise in popularity of these herp derp turn 1 blood moon decks, which are miserable for us to play against.

If you think about it over the past year or two other decks have gotten new tools: Delver got Gurmag Angler, Miracles got Mentor and Predict (ok Predict is not new but it's a pretty recent innovation), D&T has gotten a bunch of pushed creatures. Shardless has really only gotten Leovold, and Leo fits better into other decks than this one IMO. So I guess it's not terribly surprising that Shardless has lost some ground against the field.

You guys keep mentioning that Shardless beats up on Miracles, but I never found that to be the case. People say it, but I think that that was always a placebo effect and pilots being new. Now that the match up has been butting heads for awhile, it's coming to light that it's really a fifty-fifty deck match up with pilots being the deciding factor. At least that's been my experience playing against Miracles.

I still eat up D&T, Delver, Eldrazi with ease and Miracles being a hard grindfest usually comes down to top decks. Combo is still the same. I haven't seen Leo enough, strangely, to really come down to a decision on him, but I can tell you that he was amazing every time I landed him. I don't know, just sounds like you guys have gotten bored with the deck and just want to switch. Maybe your meta adapted to you and you're not sure how to adjust? Turn one Blood Moon effects seems to me that your meta is pointing in the direction of them hating you out.

[FZA]

You guys keep mentioning that Shardless beats up on Miracles, but I never found that to be the case. People say it, but I think that that was always a placebo effect and pilots being new. Now that the match up has been butting heads for awhile, it's coming to light that it's really a fifty-fifty deck match up with pilots being the deciding factor. At least that's been my experience playing against Miracles.

I still eat up D&T, Delver, Eldrazi with ease and Miracles being a hard grindfest usually comes down to top decks. Combo is still the same. I haven't seen Leo enough, strangely, to really come down to a decision on him, but I can tell you that he was amazing every time I landed him. I don't know, just sounds like you guys have gotten bored with the deck and just want to switch. Maybe your meta adapted to you and you're not sure how to adjust? Turn one Blood Moon effects seems to me that your meta is pointing in the direction of them hating you out.

Well I play online so I don't think the meta adjusting is the issue, but yeah I think this deck can be solid it might just be time to take a short break

I find shardless to be an absolute blast to play and so I would be very hesitant to give up on the deck. Just want to make sure I'm not being stubborn.

With regards to the Blood Moon decks specifically, maybe it's just time to start packing some hydroblasts in the board?

[ironclad8690]

I just 4-1'nd a league.

Miracles: 2-0
Miracles: 2-0
Miracles: 2-1
Death and Taxes: 2-1
Sneak and Show: 1-2

I am playing this right now

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
3 Baleful Strix

4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
3 Ancestral Vision
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Mealstorm Pulse
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3 Undergorund Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
2 Creeping Tar Pit

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Fatal Push
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Notion Thief
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm

Main differences from previous lists being up Strix count to 3, I have begun to realize how good this guy is vs miracles, Tar pit up to 2, since miracles is so played, hymn to 3 dropping thoughtseize form main altogether, and notion thief in sideboard as additional miracles hate/mirror. I forgot how much smoother 3 strix makes the deck, it can be the difference between hitting that 3rd land drop or getting it one turn too late.

Here is my current SB plan vs miracles which seems to be working:

Out: 1 Hymn, 1 Toxic Deluge, 2 Abrupt Decay, 1 Tarmogoyf
In: 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Sylvan Library, 1 Notion Thief, 1 Null Rod, 1 Garruk Relentless

Only 1 of these is answered by a Pyroblast, which I think is important. I am cutting decays because I found them sitting dead in my hand for most of the game, most miracles pilots have gone the cut counterbalance route rather than the overload route. I wouldn't recommend boarding out 2 if you know they leave CB in.

Thoughts I have had recently:

1) Cutting the basics. This is an "improve good matchups and forget bad matchups" approach, but I am about 50/50 on keeping them in. Without them, I would add a U Sea and a Bayou, or add red and add a Taiga and a Badlands.

2) Adding red. Like me previous point mentioned, if we are going to face miracles so much maybe we just want BBE and Pyroblasts. Grudge out of the SB is super important too, and we gain an important tool in Pyrostatic Pillar. Trust me, the last thing miracles wants to see is Pyrostatic Pillar. Also makes the Storm matchup a little better.

3) Adding White for hatebears SB. I know we have used meddling mage in the past, but a 2/2 split between canonist and c priest could really help out vs their respective decks. Maybe go full hatebears and play 2 revoker too.

[FZA]

I just 4-1'nd a league.

Miracles: 2-0
Miracles: 2-0
Miracles: 2-1
Death and Taxes: 2-1
Sneak and Show: 1-2

I am playing this right now

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
3 Baleful Strix

4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
3 Ancestral Vision
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Mealstorm Pulse
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3 Undergorund Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
2 Creeping Tar Pit

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Fatal Push
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Notion Thief
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm

Main differences from previous lists being up Strix count to 3, I have begun to realize how good this guy is vs miracles, Tar pit up to 2, since miracles is so played, hymn to 3 dropping thoughtseize form main altogether, and notion thief in sideboard as additional miracles hate/mirror. I forgot how much smoother 3 strix makes the deck, it can be the difference between hitting that 3rd land drop or getting it one turn too late.

Here is my current SB plan vs miracles which seems to be working:

Out: 1 Hymn, 1 Toxic Deluge, 2 Abrupt Decay, 1 Tarmogoyf
In: 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Sylvan Library, 1 Notion Thief, 1 Null Rod, 1 Garruk Relentless

Only 1 of these is answered by a Pyroblast, which I think is important. I am cutting decays because I found them sitting dead in my hand for most of the game, most miracles pilots have gone the cut counterbalance route rather than the overload route. I wouldn't recommend boarding out 2 if you know they leave CB in.

Thoughts I have had recently:

1) Cutting the basics. This is an "improve good matchups and forget bad matchups" approach, but I am about 50/50 on keeping them in. Without them, I would add a U Sea and a Bayou, or add red and add a Taiga and a Badlands.

2) Adding red. Like me previous point mentioned, if we are going to face miracles so much maybe we just want BBE and Pyroblasts. Grudge out of the SB is super important too, and we gain an important tool in Pyrostatic Pillar. Trust me, the last thing miracles wants to see is Pyrostatic Pillar. Also makes the Storm matchup a little better.

3) Adding White for hatebears SB. I know we have used meddling mage in the past, but a 2/2 split between canonist and c priest could really help out vs their respective decks. Maybe go full hatebears and play 2 revoker too.

I like your Miracles sideboard plan a lot, assuming they are on a 4 Predict, no mentor build. Against Mentor builds I'd leave in Decay and Deluge and just side out more Goyfs and Strixes.

I think with the white hatebear splash, a single Scrubland in the board is enough. None of the combo decks that you need hatebears against are likely to be messing with your mana, so I don't think it's necessary to alter the main deck manabase if you go down this route.

[MorphBerlin]

You guys keep mentioning that Shardless beats up on Miracles, but I never found that to be the case. People say it, but I think that that was always a placebo effect and pilots being new. Now that the match up has been butting heads for awhile, it's coming to light that it's really a fifty-fifty deck match up with pilots being the deciding factor. At least that's been my experience playing against Miracles.

I still eat up D&T, Delver, Eldrazi with ease and Miracles being a hard grindfest usually comes down to top decks. Combo is still the same. I haven't seen Leo enough, strangely, to really come down to a decision on him, but I can tell you that he was amazing every time I landed him. I don't know, just sounds like you guys have gotten bored with the deck and just want to switch. Maybe your meta adapted to you and you're not sure how to adjust? Turn one Blood Moon effects seems to me that your meta is pointing in the direction of them hating you out.

Funny I would sign your statement but I would switch Miracles and D&T :D I have not had any problems against Miracles locally or on cokatrice, I think my win% was a little above 60% (before Leo came out, haven't played much since then). Also at EW Paris I beat up two miracles pilots who were pretty good from what I can tell (of course their opinion was, that I had it all all the tme). I'm not sure how it is agaisnt the 3-4 predict versions but Leo should come in handy here?

I played 2 TS, 2 Leo, 3 Tamogyf yesterday and found the deck to be pretty good, I think you could cut the discard as Combo is really low atm in't it (torm at least).

[Nestalim]

Blood Moon T1 deck and burn seems to rise a bit, maybe Hydroblast and Chill can be an option in side, can't be ?