Just updated the OP with good, okay, and bad matchups and some basic strategy for each.
I think Black is necessary for the overall goal to this deck - grind their hand down and pump your hand up.
Whack lists currently playing:
Rector Nic Fit
Bizarro Stormy
Rest In Pieces
I for one am testing something like this:
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fire/Ice
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Ancestral Visions
4 Beleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
2 Bayou
3 Wasteland
Maybe this isn't the right thread, but wanted to share.
The thing I most like about this deck is cascading into Hymn form the SB against combo, while still having access to FoW. (and ofc, BBE>Agnet>Hymn;Visions is just insane)
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
try using 1x Academy ruins for ur strixes, jittes, and tops
works well with cascade after a deed bomb..
unearth should somehow find its way into this deck. Cascading to unearth would be crazy with GY targets like SCM,goyf, Clique, and strix
If you want to go into red I would check out this thread:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ascade!)/page1
Cascading into Fire Ice is very powerful and since you go pretty aggro the worst case scenarios: cascading into Bolt (for the face) or Noble Hierarch have at least some value. The fact that you don't cascade into situational removal, the more linear "to the face"-gameplan and Bloodbraid Elf make red the better choice for a cascade deck imo. The combo matchup is much worse but overall against the field I think it is stronger.
Don't think you can really support 4 colors.
In Bug Cascade I would go for Baleful Strix but then I would run Cabal Therapy. These 2 cards have a very good synergy.
Edit: has anyone thought about using the RUG cascade deck as a template for a BUG cascade deck with deathrite shaman instead of hierarch?
Last edited by catmint; 10-02-2012 at 08:47 AM.
Currently playing: Elves
I took BUG Cascade to a 50 man tournament and went 4-2 beating Merfolk, TES, Mono B, UW Miracle (all 2-0) while loosing to RUG Delver (1-2, final match with mulligan 5 and one island) and Goblins (0-2, first game loosing with 1 life on his side thanks to shaman, second game misplay since I attacked with all my creatures + jitte when he recovers with ringleader for an alphastrike)
The deck never felt weak against any archetype and ran very smooth, here's my list:
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Bayou
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Baleful Strix
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Pernicious Deed
SB: 3 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
Decay was so powerful especially against UW Miracle with CB, also Therapy over Hymn felt right the whole day.
In my meta this build is absolutely competetive, will definitely keep working on it!
Did some heavier testing yesterday with my current list as well (testing some Strix and Abrupt Decay).
Abrupt Decay really helps in the RUG matchup which is still tough especially since the current lists are back on the Stifle plan. AD was also amazing against Uw Miracles (as expected).
Baleful Strix is testing well so far - it helps to do what we want, which is keep us alive until T3-4 while still generating card advantage.
Check out my small tourney report yesterday winning with RUG cascasde in the waterfalls thread.
I think between the cascade decks black has obviously a better combomatchup, whereas I felt really comfortably with 4 bolt and 4 Fire//Ice against creature based decks. If you compare Fire//Ice and Baleful Strix, I think Fire//Ice is the stronger choice (altough I really love strix). Cascading into strix is usually stronger, but Fire is a removal when you need it and Strix can only stall but gets easily removed herself. Icing down a land to "pseudo time walk" while you suspended visions is also nice.
Good to see that people are picking up on going the acceleration route with deathrite shaman and also cabal therapy is an easy include with shamans & Baleful strix around.
As for the planeswalker slot: I would start with 2 Jace and decide if there is more Jace or LIliana needed from there on.
Currently playing: Elves
I also think black is probably better against control, especially the Uw Miracle decks since we have access to Deed (seeya Angel tokens/CB), Abrupt Decay, and Hymn.
I see the red version as having more game against the faster aggro decks like Goblins where you really need to have fast early removal to survive against them.
So in sideboarding against Esper Stoneblade, do you guys usually keep Deed in?
I don't think it's that great against them, but it may be necessary to deal with masses of Lingering Souls tokens?
It may be a mistake, but there is only one deck archetype where I side Deed out - Show and Tell. I'm never unhappy to have it abd this deck does a decent job of filtering if you really don want it. Also, this deck sometimes needs a bit of a delay or "Standstill" effect to get its CA engine going, which Deed can happily provide T3 or midgame.
Whack lists currently playing:
Rector Nic Fit
Bizarro Stormy
Rest In Pieces
Yeah I love Deed, but I'm not certain how good it is against Esper Stoneblade.
I'm trying to find room to bring in a Clique and Krosan Grip and possibly 2 Jittes from the board.
Maybe Jaces need to come out in that matchup since they have so many things that kill Jace.
Has anyone tried a Force-less, Dark Confidant version of this deck? Maybe something like...
4x Shardless Agent
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Baleful Strix
4x Dark Confidant
2x Deed
2x Vendilion Clique
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Brainstorm
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Ancestral Visions
4x Abrupt Decay
20x Lands
Creature-heavy, card advantage-heavy and but still having plenty of disruption/control- Hymn and Clique for their hand, Shaman for their graveyard, Decay, Deed and Strix for the board position.
I've really wanted to try and fit Bob into the deck, but I've been finding it difficult to figure out what to cut as well.
I think Force is necessary because without it, our combo matchup gets much worse. Also, with all the card advantage we generate, I actually keep it in against the aggro matchups to pitch early to keep ourselves alive to the late game.
Could work - I have found FoW to be mediocre and the deck really relies on the black disruption package. FoW really needs to be in your opening hand (with another blue card to pitch) in order for it to be really helpful. Mid- to late-game I find it's a card you're happy to cascade over and/or NOT topdeck. So far I've been really digging the 4x Hymn and 2x Wrench Mind for disruption, though I can see Inquisition or Thoughtseize going maindeck.
I'm very partial to Dark Confidant as a card and rely on him a lot, but I still believe the overall strategy is to cascade into bombs: board-controllers i.e. Strix or Goyf, hand-disrupters i.e. Hymn, instant burst card advantage i.e. Ancestral Vision. Bob is great when hardcast, but otherwise isn't very helpful turn 3 or turn 4. I like the idea of Deathrite Shaman (similar to how the RUG Cascade deck is running Hierarch) to help with acceleration, potentially giving you a turn 2 Shardless cascade, but I have the trouble figuring out what to cut. I think this deck requires Sensei's Divining Top to help filter your cascades too. Then again, I'm a bad player so I may not know what I'm talking about.
Also, I love Abrupt Decay, however I think it should run as a 2-of and you should keep your 2-ofs of Ghastly Demise. You need to have a potential turn-1 answer against Lackey or Mom.
Whack lists currently playing:
Rector Nic Fit
Bizarro Stormy
Rest In Pieces
Greenpoe's list does run 4x Deathrite Shaman, there's an answer to Lackey at least.
Here's the list I've currently been rocking:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
2 [B] Bayou
1 [P2] Forest (1)
2 [A] Underground Sea
2 [R] Tropical Island
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [MPR] Wasteland
1 [DDE] Swamp (1)
1 [8E] Island (4)
// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
4 [P12] Shardless Agent
2 [P12] Baleful Strix
// Spells
4 [DD2] Ancestral Vision
3 [JGC] Pernicious Deed
3 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (4)
2 [OD] Ghastly Demise
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 [COM] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [RAV] Darkblast
Very similar to the original list, just with some slight tweaks.
Played it again this weekend - beat BUG Control (and won a game where I mulled to 4!), beat Sneaky Show, lost to RGB Aggro Loam (mulled to 3 one game, mana screw the second), and lost to Maverick (I lost one game where I kept a greedy hand with a fetchland, Brainstorm, Ghastly Demise, Force and of course I found no lands off the Brainstorm then my Sea got wasted after I had to use it to Ghastly a T1 Mother).
Pretty much with this deck, I always have the feeling that if I hit my first 4 land drops, I generally have a tough time losing the game.
I'm trying this build right now:
// Artifacts:
2 Sensei's Divining Top
// Creatures:
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Baleful Strix
2 Vendilion Clique
// Planeswalkers:
2 Liliana of the Veil
// Enchantments:
3 Pernicious Deed
// Sorceries & Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Abrupt Decay
// Lands:
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Bayou
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
It's working pretty well. Liliana is a must, helped in so many games. I tried to fit Deathrite Shaman, but I don't know which cards to withdraw.
I'm just perusing and reading lists and thinking ab the interactions beckons me to recommend the Harpy from planeshift.
Harpy is nice if you don't worry about fizzling (harpy into nothing).
@EvilDemon: I'm running a very similar list right now, but still loving the Jaces. Do you miss the extra Brainstorming at all to set up Cascades?
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