September 2, Updates to the Magic Tournament Rules

[dsck]

Im surprised there hasnt been 10+ page thread about this, as its fairly significant change unless im missing something?

http://blogs.magicjudges.org/telliot...gesforplayers/

[For Competitive+ REL only] You now need to announce *all* your triggers.

EDIT: September 20* but I cant fix it :P

[Esper3k]

It's not that huge - in Legacy it pretty much means just announcing your Exalted triggers going on the stack.

I would also assume that it now also means that if you didn't announce it, your opponent can assume you forgot to do it and thus it doesn't happen (unless they want it to)? Can a judge confirm on that?

[Tammit67]

I would also assume that it now also means that if you didn't announce it, your opponent can assume you forgot to do it and thus it doesn't happen (unless they want it to)? Can a judge confirm on that?

Confirmed. You have to announce ALL triggers. This is a change from previously when triggers that had no visual effect (such as exalted) 'auto-resolved' or were assumed to have resolved properly.

[dsck]

It was quite bizarre in yesterdays tournament I played in when high tide player didnt announce brain freeze storm trigger properly and lost. There were also numerous counterbalance mishaps etc.

[Koby]

I love this change. It forces people to fucking understand what the shit they are doing.

learn2play.

[nedleeds]

re: tabernacle

All creatures have "At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy this creature unless you pay {1}."

So the creature has the trigger ... Y U NO PAY? It's the creatures controllers trigger, if he goes to draw and nobody announces anything the creature lives?

[Esper3k]

re: tabernacle

All creatures have "At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy this creature unless you pay {1}."

So the creature has the trigger ... Y U NO PAY? It's the creatures controllers trigger, if he goes to draw and nobody announces anything the creature lives?

I think this is different because upkeep triggers are usually treated similarly to may effect triggers, so if they didn't pay it, it's still assumed they're choosing to sacrifice the creature.

This policy change is targeted at those mandatory triggers that don't have a visual impact on the game state (ie, Exalted).

For other mandatory upkeep triggers like Bob you have a certain time period (I can't remember how long it is) where you can point it out and force your opponent to do the trigger. Of course, I would assume you'd want to call a judge and your opponent would get a missed trigger warning.

[nedleeds]

I hope so ... watching people go to their draw step with tabby out without paying it one of the greatest thrills in Magic.

Here I rule.

[Tao]

I think this is different because upkeep triggers are usually treated similarly to may effect triggers, so if they didn't pay it, it's still assumed they're choosing to sacrifice the creature.

This policy change is targeted at those mandatory triggers that don't have a visual impact on the game state (ie, Exalted).

Yeah, like with Pacts. If you don't pay, you / your creatures die.

Also for similar situations in which it would be benefitial to forget the trigger: if you remind your opponent of that trigger you can force him to use it. I think it is also a DQ for cheating if the judge comes to the conclusion that the trigger has been forgotten deliberately to gain an advantage (maybe a judge can confirm).

[Esper3k]

Yeah, like with Pacts. If you don't pay, you / your creatures die.

Also for similar situations in which it would be benefitial to forget the trigger: if you remind your opponent of that trigger you can force him to use it. I think it is also a DQ for cheating if the judge comes to the conclusion that the trigger has been forgotten deliberately to gain an advantage (maybe a judge can confirm).

Yeah for mandatory triggers, it's still your opponent's responsibility to remember them. If they intentionally "forgot" them, then it should still be cheating.

Otherwise, I believe it's still a missed trigger warning? (judges please confirm)

Also, if someone can recall the time frame we have to point out missed mandatory triggers, that'd be great too.

[Anusien]

If the trigger has been forgotten deliberately, the player will be Disqualified for Cheating - Fraud.

If a player misses a trigger and it is caught within a turn, the opponent has the choice of whether the trigger happens or not.

It was quite bizarre in yesterdays tournament I played in when high tide player didnt announce brain freeze storm trigger properly and lost. There were also numerous counterbalance mishaps etc.

It is worth noting that the changes haven't taken effect yet. The effective date is 1 October.

[Shawn]

Is tapping on a card such as Counterbalance an acceptable shortcut to announce a trigger?

[sdematt]

And here begins the 10+ page thread.

I love this change. It forces people to fucking understand what the shit they are doing.

learn2play.

It can be exhausting playing for your opponent as well as yourself. Thank god for this change.

-Matt

[Esper3k]

If a player misses a trigger and it is caught within a turn, the opponent has the choice of whether the trigger happens or not.

With the mandatory triggers, if your opponent forgets theirs, but you remember it are you allowed to hold off on reminding them until a more opportune moment arrives (within the same turn) to force them to trigger it?

[nedleeds]

Triggers and reminding opponents who

a) can't read my cards
b) don't know how the cards work even when presented with oracle text
c) don't know things like converted mana cost (on the stack and in play)
d) untapped vs. tapped

burned so much time in my matches, it's frustrating to try to play a deck with tons of upkeep effects and have to teach a bunch of standard players at an eternal event the rules of magic the gathering.

4 x Tangle Wire
Smokestack
Tabernacle
4 x Chalice of the Void
4 x Trinisphere

I drew two matches were ~15-20 minutes were spent by me or judges explaining the rules of magic the gathering to novices. I couldn't ever get equatable time back in extensions.

[Koby]

With the mandatory triggers, if your opponent forgets theirs, but you remember it are you allowed to hold off on reminding them until a more opportune moment arrives (within the same turn) to force them to trigger it?

I believe within a turn cycle is acceptable. Anything more than that now becomes a Missed Trigger warning without putting it on the stack. Prime example of this: Huntmaster of the Fells after its been taken with Zealous Conscripts.

There is nothing within the the guidelines that examine the game-state in order to make that decision. It's explicitly temporal (how much time has elapsed).

[Anusien]

Is tapping on a card such as Counterbalance an acceptable shortcut to announce a trigger?

Sure.

A trigger is considered missed once the controller of the trigger has taken an action after the point at which a trigger should have resolved or, in the case of a trigger controlled by the non-active player, after that player has taken an action that indicates they have actively passed priority.

As long as you don't do something that would have to have resolved after the Counterbalance trigger (like cast a Sorcery) and as long as you make it clear you're responding, you're fine.

[Anusien]

I believe within a turn cycle is acceptable. Anything more than that now becomes a Missed Trigger warning without putting it on the stack. Prime example of this: Huntmaster of the Fells after its been taken with Zealous Conscripts.

There is nothing within the the guidelines that examine the game-state in order to make that decision. It's explicitly temporal (how much time has elapsed).

A couple of big things here. We had a lot of debate over how long a trigger should stick around for the opponent to notice, from the same length as the controlling player to a full turn cycle. Too long and it increases the likelihood you get a weird interaction. Too short and you engender a lot of cheating accusations and feel-bads. A turn is a good compromise. It’s also something that, unlike turn cycle, doesn’t need a bunch of definition – it’s just that point a turn later. Player 1 missed an upkeep trigger during their turn, and now we’re in Player 2′s main phase? A turn has passed. Any time we can do something intuitive, it’s better than having another definition.

It's a turn, not a turn cycle.

[Koby]

Thanks for clarifying between turn and a cycle. That explanation / methodology makes more sense.

[Anusien]

With the mandatory triggers, if your opponent forgets theirs, but you remember it are you allowed to hold off on reminding them until a more opportune moment arrives (within the same turn) to force them to trigger it?

Yes.