Sweet, thanks! Feels so dirty, but oh so good...Originally Posted by Anusien
Of course on the other hand, your opponent should have remembered their triggers at the correct time.
Will both players receive warning for a missed mandatory trigger which cannot be resolved lately or found to be missed a turn after? (Like dark confidant?)
I wonder if some dirty playing will take place. If a player who missed a trigger is to be punished for that, his opponent might call a judge intentionally after a turn has passed to make it more heavy..
Nothing is true, everything is permitted...
If a player missed a mandatory trigger, then it's sloppy play and should be tracked at the Competitive level.
Fortunately, only repeated and similar missed trigger warnings will escalate.
Imagine - missing the same Dark Confidant trigger 4 times in the same tournament. At that point, you would have to be pretty dense to have missed it (again). At this time it would be appropriate to escalate from Warning to Game Loss - at the discretion of the judging staff.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
This however goes along with the new philosophy that each player is responsible for remembering their own triggers so you don't feel like you're screwing yourself over by remembering your opponent's triggers for them. Ie, you now only have to remind them when you actually want the trigger to happen.
ftfy
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
The change doesn't take effect until October, 1st...
Exactly my thoughts. ^^
I dont know if the judge was too harsh (how long you can take before announcing storm trigger? You also need to think how many copies you target yourself with brain freeze sometimes). The player in question is definitely competent and it felt like he was hosed by the new ruling.
I quess this is good time to bring this up so less people are surprised by this change starting on oct. 1st, no idea why it was already enforced in my local tournament but its quite interesting change. It however brought some confusion rather than making things more smooth.
I think if you take more than a couple seconds of pausing (without specifically saying you're retaining priority) after putting something on the stack, it's pretty safe to assume you've passed priority.
If you are keeping track of storm and announce something like "Tendrils you for 24", that's no longer kosher?
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
That is of course still legal, since it's indicating clearly that you remembered the storm trigger.
A) The opponent of the player with the trigger receives no penalty. No matter what.
B) The penalty doesn't change regardless of time (except that there's no penalty after a turn).
Incorrect. That is in fact the exact opposite of this change.
If you accidentally miss a trigger that is generally good for you (read: not detrimental), there is no penalty. Missing the trigger is its own "reward".
Magic Level 3 Judge
Southern USA Regional Coordinator
Good luck deciding when the missing of the trigger was intentional or not.
Say I have Dark Confidant on the battlefield and 2 life. I skip to my draw ignoring Dark Confidant's ability. My opponent might even notice it and I have to resolve it afterwards, but if he doesn't I avoided a chance to die... was I cheating? Prove it!
Obviously, repeating this kinda of thing on a single or even on a sequence of tournaments, will give away your true intentions. But I feel this will just allow for ocasional cheats without chance of being punished.
Am I wrong?
PS: Can I LD my opponent if he doesn't announce properly his fetchland activation? LOL!
How is this any different than the old policy?
In both policies, if you miss a trigger that's detrimental to you, you get a missed trigger warning at best. With the old philosophy, you also get a warning for forgetting your opponent's triggers.
Under the new philosophy, you are never responsible for your opponent's triggers, which just means you're never penalized for missing them. If you actually want one to happen, you force your opponent to do it.
All players get:
Memories from the Past
Emblem
Whenever an opponent misses a trigger put a charge counter on Memories from the Past. (Write down the kind of trigger that was missed)
Remove a charge counter from Memories from the Past: put a copy of the forgotten trigger on the stack. This ability has Split Second.
At the end of the turn remove all charge counters from Memories from the Past.
Can I let my opponent forget his trigger and then only remind him of it on a time that benefits me the most? Is that cheating?
This policy change seems like it leaves way too much to the subjectivity of the judge. I like that the change holds players more responsible. But judges cannot read minds (please verify this). There's really no way to prove someone's intention of cheating if they say they forgot a dark confidant trigger, even if it's happened multiple times.
@alderon666: It is like you said. If your opponent forgets something, you can wait until the most appropiate time for you within a turn and have him do it then. So if your opponent forgets a Dark Confidant trigger but you want him to lose the life you make him put the trigger on the stack on the of the 1-turn window.
Yeah that is a bit cheesy, but if player don't forget their triggers they avoid those things completely. I like the rule much more than punishing a player for his opponents mistakes or forcing him to remind his opponent to draw cards, gain life and pump his creatures with Exalted.
That has not changed at all, it is the same thing now. If a player misses a Confidant trigger and the judge investigates and comes to the conclusion that he did it on purpose he gets DQed for cheating. That has not changed.
The only difference is that you don't have to remind him of his mistake anymore.
No you aren't wrong. But cheaters tend to continue to cheat, giving us plenty of chances to catch them. You could always force them to do their triggers, whether or not it is beneficial for you ("Before you draw that card, you should really pay for your pact"). I probably still will.
Fetchland activations aren't triggers. One fo the players at my store was wondering if he had to announce his forest's 'trigger' to get mana from it now. I hope you, unlike him, were being facetious
Matt Bevenour in real life
How would you handle a missed Dark Confidant Trigger? How would you fix it and what penalty would you give on the first and second call (do the life points matter? "safe" vs "could die to the trigger")?
Someone should write an article summarizing all the rules changes and give example of common Legacy triggers and how to proceed when they are missed.
I'm still very confused. What's up with those detrimental triggers? How do you decide if a trigger is detrimental or not?
I am in the same boat as some others about being confused.
Say my opponent is playing Maverick, and I snapblock his creature after he forgets to announce his Exalted triggers (in this example, a block that would not otherwise make sense if Exalted was correctly announced). I obviously KNOW he forgot his Exalted triggers, which is why I am snapblocking. This shows I am purposely not reminding my opponent of his Exalted triggers. This is cheating, right?
How is this not the same with the Brain Freeze/Tendrils of Agony examples? If I am the opponent and I snapcall a judge over, put only three cards into my graveyard or lose only two life, then how am I not indicating that I, as the opponent, do not realize what is exactly happening in this situation? I obviously did not forget the Storm from either, so am I then cheating?
EDIT: Going a step further, if I am the Maverick player and my opponent immediately performed an action that indicated he did not forget my Exalted triggers as well, then why would I not appeal to the judge that my opponent is very obviously cheating? Does this not lead to a next level where a person could purposely forget a trigger and bait their opponent into cheating.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote