Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

[Misdirection]

is chalice on 0 a better deal against storm?

[potatodavid]

is chalice on 0 a better deal against storm?

If I can, I go Chalice 1, Chalice 2. Then Chalice 0.

[gRR!!]

Hey there folks,

Since the beginning of March, I've played Big Red in 3 small tournaments (10-15 people) and 1 Catalan Legacy League (60-some players). I've made 3-1, 3-0-pact and 3-0-pact in the small tournaments and 4-2 in the CLL, finishing 13rd. This have been my matchups so far:

1 win vs Pox (2-0)
3 wins vs Infect (2-1, 2-0, 2-1)
2 losses vs Sneak Show (0-2, 0-2)
1 win vs Burn (2-1)
1 win/1 loss vs Shardless BUG (2-1, 1-2)
1 win vs GB Aggro (2-1)
2 wins vs Miracles (2-1, 2-1)
1 win vs Lands (2-0)
2 wins vs BUG (2-1, 2-0)
1 win vs Colorless Eldrazi (2-0)

...for a total 16 matches, with a 13-3 total in matches and 27-14 in games.

This is my current decklist and sideboard:

1 Sandstone Needle
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Seething Song
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Through the Breach
4 Sneak Attack
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
2 Combustible Gearhulk
2 Worldspine Wurm

Sideboard:

2 Ingot Chewer
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroclasm
3 Defense Grid
3 Trinisphere

The deck is surprising me a lot. Even if it seems to be too inconsistent and untrustworthy, its ability to win from diverse angles (by locking the opponent out of the game with Chalices/Blood Moons, or via brute force) makes it very intriguing and fun to play. Blood Moon is an absolute monster in the current meta. My losses so far have been versus Sneak Show twice (tough pairing, but I think variance punished me hard in both matches) and Shardless BUG, when I had to play an all-in turn 1 Blood Moon in the 3rd game, he had FoW and I didn't recover.

I haven't played versus Death and Taxes, ANT nor Reanimator yet. I don't pack any specifical hate vs Reanimator, that's a gamble so I have more slots for other pairings; I trust in my Chalices/speed/luck for that match (and lately Reanimator is not played so much here in Barcelona).

Just my two cents

[potatodavid]

Hey there folks,

Since the beginning of March, I've played Big Red in 3 small tournaments (10-15 people) and 1 Catalan Legacy League (60-some players). I've made 3-1, 3-0-pact and 3-0-pact in the small tournaments and 4-2 in the CLL, finishing 13rd. This have been my matchups so far:

1 win vs Pox (2-0)
3 wins vs Infect (2-1, 2-0, 2-1)
2 losses vs Sneak Show (0-2, 0-2)
1 win vs Burn (2-1)
1 win/1 loss vs Shardless BUG (2-1, 1-2)
1 win vs GB Aggro (2-1)
2 wins vs Miracles (2-1, 2-1)
1 win vs Lands (2-0)
2 wins vs BUG (2-1, 2-0)
1 win vs Colorless Eldrazi (2-0)

...for a total 16 matches, with a 13-3 total in matches and 27-14 in games.

This is my current decklist and sideboard:

1 Sandstone Needle
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Seething Song
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Through the Breach
4 Sneak Attack
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
2 Combustible Gearhulk
2 Worldspine Wurm

Sideboard:

2 Ingot Chewer
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroclasm
3 Defense Grid
3 Trinisphere

The deck is surprising me a lot. Even if it seems to be too inconsistent and untrustworthy, its ability to win from diverse angles (by locking the opponent out of the game with Chalices/Blood Moons, or via brute force) makes it very intriguing and fun to play. Blood Moon is an absolute monster in the current meta. My losses so far have been versus Sneak Show twice (tough pairing, but I think variance punished me hard in both matches) and Shardless BUG, when I had to play an all-in turn 1 Blood Moon in the 3rd game, he had FoW and I didn't recover.

I haven't played versus Death and Taxes, ANT nor Reanimator yet. I don't pack any specifical hate vs Reanimator, that's a gamble so I have more slots for other pairings; I trust in my Chalices/speed/luck for that match (and lately Reanimator is not played so much here in Barcelona).

Just my two cents

Great work! Sneak and Show is a weird Match-up. I've been showing in a sneak attack against them so I can immediately activate it next turn. Othertimes just dropping the emrakul makes their game incredibly awkward. Good work and nice report.

[gRR!!]

Great work! Sneak and Show is a weird Match-up. I've been showing in a sneak attack against them so I can immediately activate it next turn. Othertimes just dropping the emrakul makes their game incredibly awkward. Good work and nice report.

Is weird, indeed. Our lock pieces aren't so important against them (Blood Moon is just mediocre, and if they "got it", Chalice may be irrelevant), so we need to find our combo pieces. On the other hand, they should be really careful playing Show and Tell, so they have to find Sneak Attack. All in all I think we should be slightly favored, but my results seems to prove otherwise. Anyway, I still haven't played so much matches, so who knows

I was to write how I sideboard vs Sneak Show, only to find I'm not sure at all. They play counters, so we should take out 4 x Seething Song and enter 3 x Defense Grid, but I'm not really sure about Blood Moon and Chalice of the Void. I would side in 2 x Ingot Chewers for their Petals, and I suppose 3 x Trinispheres should also come in. In the end, I suppose I'd sideboard like this:

-4 Seething Song
-4 Blood Moon (???)

+3 Defense Grid
+3 Trinisphere
+2 Ingot Chewer

Thoughts?

[potatodavid]

Is weird, indeed. Our lock pieces aren't so important against them (Blood Moon is just mediocre, and if they "got it", Chalice may be irrelevant), so we need to find our combo pieces. On the other hand, they should be really careful playing Show and Tell, so they have to find Sneak Attack. All in all I think we should be slightly favored, but my results seems to prove otherwise. Anyway, I still haven't played so much matches, so who knows

I was to write how I sideboard vs Sneak Show, only to find I'm not sure at all. They play counters, so we should take out 4 x Seething Song and enter 3 x Defense Grid, but I'm not really sure about Blood Moon and Chalice of the Void. I would side in 2 x Ingot Chewers for their Petals, and I suppose 3 x Trinispheres should also come in. In the end, I suppose I'd sideboard like this:

-4 Seething Song
-4 Blood Moon (???)

+3 Defense Grid
+3 Trinisphere
+2 Ingot Chewer

Thoughts?

I bring in Pyromancy instead of Chewer. But your Board Strategy is in line with what i would do.

[potatodavid]

Same List, 3-0 Split top 4. Got some foily sneaks!

I'm just going to play this list until someone just destroys my whole being.

[Fallen_Empire]

Has anyone tried Fiery Confluence? Seems like it could be a good fit.

[potatodavid]

JBone has tried it.

[jbone2016]

Has anyone tried Fiery Confluence? Seems like it could be a good fit.

To some success. It is nice against D&T to hit and vial + Pyroclasm, 6 to the face of miracles (or split it up to hit jace)

[SecondSunrise]

Hi all!

I have not played mono r sneak in some time, but am thinking about going back to it. I see that, since I last played the deck, most people seem to have moved away from the Godo + Batterskull package towards some split of Chandra and Combustible Gearhulk.

Now, while I can see how Chandra is very strong against both Miracles and various BUG decks, can someone unpack the Gearhulk for me? It seems "cute" in the worst sense of the word... does it really have enough impact? Taking grr!!"s list and doing some back of the envelope math, it seems our average converted manacost is actually just about 3 mana... I just do not see at first how this card makes our deck better, other than making it even more swingy... thanks for an explanation!

[gRR!!]

Hi all!

I have not played mono r sneak in some time, but am thinking about going back to it. I see that, since I last played the deck, most people seem to have moved away from the Godo + Batterskull package towards some split of Chandra and Combustible Gearhulk.

Now, while I can see how Chandra is very strong against both Miracles and various BUG decks, can someone unpack the Gearhulk for me? It seems "cute" in the worst sense of the word... does it really have enough impact? Taking grr!!"s list and doing some back of the envelope math, it seems our average converted manacost is actually just about 3 mana... I just do not see at first how this card makes our deck better, other than making it even more swingy... thanks for an explanation!

Hey there!

To be honest, I'm still not really sold on Gearhulk. What I like about him is that is castable, but Inferno Titan is too and I feel Titan makes more impact when comes into play. Anyway, average CMC of 3 (I did the math also ) means average 9 damage (and we can get lucky and hit Emmy/Wurm), plus attacking for 6 means 15 damage, but if opponent is low on life he'll probably choose give us 3 cards.

This days I can't go to my weekly LGS tournament, but if I could, I'd probably switch the 2 CGs for the 3rd Inferno Titan and another red castable card (probably, I'm still not sure about which one... 3rd Chandra? Or maybe is better play big and jam the 3rd Emmy?).

EDIT: Have you guys seen Hazoret the Fervent? It seems a nice addition for our Dragon Stompy mono-red friends. Probably not impactful enough for us, though

[SecondSunrise]

I could even see just jamming 4 Chandras, although we cannot play her off TTB or Sneak Attack, which means matchups where we want stuff at Instant speed (like D+T tapping our lands on upkeep) get a bit harder.

On the other hand, she is easily castable, helps us secure card advantage and even ramps into other pieces... dunno. Inferno Titan is a very good card as well, but can often be underwhelming against Miralces (where Godo was bad also, but Chandra is great). I guess testing the split as-is is fine to gather more data.

EDIT: Another question, how has the Defence Grid been for you? What are the matchups it is stongest in? I believe my list ran 2 Pyromancy and 1 Boil in those slots, which I have always found very strong against Miracles. I also had 2 Magus of the Moon for the BUG matchups. What is your rationale behind the 3 Defense Grids and 2 Pyroclasms?

[gRR!!]

There's no big reasoning (I'm not expert with the list, I have played maybe 20 rounds with it). I like Defense Grid vs BUG, to ensure turn 2 Blood Moon will resolve, and it should work too vs Sneak Show (but I've lost twice vs them). Pyroclasms and Sudden Shocks should be useful vs D&T, but I haven't played vs them yet. Still tweaking the sideboard to be honest, but I'm satisfied with it overall right now.

Maybe 4 Chandras is too much? I'm not sure if I want to see more than one in my opening seven. 3 can be the right number here. I'll have to buy the 3rd one foil

I was pondering about Pyromancy, but I haven't tested it yet (I'm not really convinced about it, it seems to me that we will have too much cards in hand to actívate it for profit, but probably I am totally wrong).

[SecondSunrise]

There's no big reasoning (I'm not expert with the list, I have played maybe 20 rounds with it). I like Defense Grid vs BUG, to ensure turn 2 Blood Moon will resolve, and it should work too vs Sneak Show (but I've lost twice vs them). Pyroclasms and Sudden Shocks should be useful vs D&T, but I haven't played vs them yet. Still tweaking the sideboard to be honest, but I'm satisfied with it overall right now.

Maybe 4 Chandras is too much? I'm not sure if I want to see more than one in my opening seven. 3 can be the right number here. I'll have to buy the 3rd one foil

I was pondering about Pyromancy, but I haven't tested it yet (I'm not really convinced about it, it seems to me that we will have too much cards in hand to actívate it for profit, but probably I am totally wrong).

I tested and then played the deck at MKM Prague last year, but I am not an expert by any means with it. Pyromancy is actually great against Miracles as just another business spell they have to counter. Since they have a hard time pressuring us (the odd Mentor + 2 Tops draw notwithstanding), a resolved Pyromancy will win the game eventually, since we usually end up with all fatties in hand and no way to cast them.

The same reasoning applies to Boil, it is just another must-counter spell to make sure our actual end game spells (TTB and Sneak Attack) can resolve.

3 Chandra sounds about right. Maybe we could just keep 1 Gearhulk for the lolz.

I played against D+T a couple of times and Sulfur Elemental + Sudden Shock were enough for me, I did not miss Pyroclasms. The matchup is very swingy and higly dependant on how their draw shapes up against ours, pretty even overall. Castable Inferno Titan is massive obviously XD

[gRR!!]

I see the advantages of playing Pyromancy vs Miracles, yes; 3 Chandra + 2 Pyromancy as "must counter" cards should put a lot of pressure on them.

Same about Pyroclasm; Sulfur Elementals + Sudden Shocks should cripple D&T badly. Plus, Pyroclasm is not so good vs other pairings like Infect neither. So I suppose I'll make the switch in the sideboard, -2 Pyroclasm +2 Pyromancy. MD I'll try and remove the 2 Gearhulk and add 3rd Inferno and 3rd Chandra :)

[SecondSunrise]

Please let us know how it works out! For what it's worth, I just sent a tweet at Jeff Hoogland because I was curious; he said that when he tested Gearhulk last October, Gearhulk was very mediocre for him. Unfotunately the list from that testing session has been lost, so I do not know what the exact configuration was.

[mistervader]

What sideboard do you guys recommend against graveyard-based decks? My meta is always infested with at least Reanimator and Dredge at any given time, and I didn't want to sacrifice Chalice at 1 just to have Surgical Extraction in there. Would a couple of Tormod's Crypts be the key?

[Fallen_Empire]

What sideboard do you guys recommend against graveyard-based decks? My meta is always infested with at least Reanimator and Dredge at any given time, and I didn't want to sacrifice Chalice at 1 just to have Surgical Extraction in there. Would a couple of Tormod's Crypts be the key?

faerie macabre

[jbone2016]

So.....locally we had a big team tourney today (one format of each). I was the lucky one to play legacy. Team Finished 3-2-1. I finished 4-1 (and a match that was going to game 3)

Decklist:

1 Sandstone Needle
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Seething Song
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Through the Breach
4 Sneak Attack
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand
2 Inferno Titan
2 Fiery Confluence
2 Worldspine Wurm

Sideboard:


2 Kozilek's Return
2 Sudden Shock
2 Defense Grid
3 Trinisphere
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pyromancy
2 Ratchet Bomb

Match 1 (team drew)
Aggro Loam
Game 1: Early Blood moon, then Spaghetti happens.
Game 2: I stick a 3ball and a sneak, but I never find a fattie.
Game 3: He goes turn 1, mox, mox, KoTR, then Bob. I resolve a sneak with a song, and activate with one red left. He has a Karakas up, so I can do the Emrakul activate again but I go with sneaking in titan to kill a bob and the KOTR which is a 5/5 now. Next turn. Spaghetti. I'm pretty sure he had 7 permanents, so Emrakul was the more aggressive route. I played it safe.

Match 2 (team won)
Burn
Game 1: Stuck an Inferno Titan turn 2, attacked and played confluence to 6 his dome.
Game 2: Turn one wurm. Match

Match 3 (team lost)
Miracles
Game 1: Early blood moon slows things down, before I resolve a sneak with griselbrand, draw a lot. And then kill him the next turn.
Game 2: Some early counters from him (and a timely disenchant on a chalice for one) makes this game go long but top/CB/jace does it
Game 3: didn't happen

Match 4 (team won)
Enchantress
Game 1: I get a sneak out but no monster. Gets O-ringed. I get Chandra to 7. He plays a Leyline of Sanctity. And then hard casts an Emmy.
Game 2: I keep a greedy one land City with multiple songs, sneak/breach, monster and chalice. Go Chalice on one. Durdle for a couple of turns. Find my SSG and smash his face in.
Game 3: He goes 2 exploration to drop 3 land in play. I go with a turn one wurm.

Match 5 (team lost)
Mirror.
Yep, the Mirror. With the Hyze himself.
Game 1: I win the die roll but mull to 6. I think I die on turn 3.
Game 2: He breaches a Grisel and draws 14 but doesn't find a fatty. His batterskull (which got confluenced) and SSG knock me down for a while but I get up and Emmy him.
Game 3: Sadly, I mull to 5 and I'm never in the game

Match 6 (team won)
Storm
Game 1: His duress has to take a moon over a breach with a griselbrand in my hand. Get a chalice for zero out after the attack (and drawing 14). He ded next turn
Game 2: He mulls to 5, while I get moon and chalice on one out. Wurm cleans up in a couple turns after.

Thoughts:
Fiery confluence can probably go back to the board. Maybe one godo/skull each in the main?
The board:
2 Kozilek's Return (stays)
2 Sudden Shock (stays)
2 Defense Grid (??)
3 Trinisphere (stays)
2 Ratchet Bomb (I like it)
2 Fiery confluence (leaning towards yes)

Faerie has been lackluster. Pyromancy/Revoker are meh. Damping Matrix had been a thought (stops Top, DRS, random other stuff). Tsabo's Web for Karakas, port, Maze...etc