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Thread: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

  1. #1121

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    2 Inferno Titan
    4 Worldspine Wurm
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    4 Sneak Attack
    4 Through the Breach
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Seething Song
    3 Fiery Confluence

    10 Mountain
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    2 Sandstone Needle

    Sideboard
    3 Sudden Shock
    2 Goblin Cratermaker
    1 Abrade
    2 Defense Grid
    4 Faerie Macabre
    3 Trinisphere

    This is what i'll jam in a few weeks..
    Why no blood moon main deck?

  2. #1122
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    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    The deck only plays 8 colorless mana sources. Pairing them with 4TKS seems very inconsistent.

    The main advantage of the boar is to increase consistency. This deck has no cantripping, no tutors and no draws. So finding both sides of the combo can be challenging.

    Playing 12 Sneak Attack effects and 10+ large fatties helps insure that you see both combo pieces almost every game. And 30 mana sources make a turn 1 combo likely.

    Thats why I propose going back up to 4 Seeting Song because its the perfect mana cost for all 12 combo pieces

    Boar doesnt have haste but it doubles as a threat... you can Sneak out a hasty boar and it can bring out an emrakul or wurm that same turn, often on turn 1 dealing enough damage to win.

    Blood Moon can be any other card, TKS, Chandra, Fiery Confluence etc. But I think the 12 sneak and 10 fattie and 4 chalice and 30 mana package has merit.
    Hall of the Bandit Lord also adds Colorless for Thought Knot ;)
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  3. #1123

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    2 Inferno Titan
    4 Worldspine Wurm
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    4 Sneak Attack
    4 Through the Breach
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Seething Song
    3 Fiery Confluence

    10 Mountain
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    2 Sandstone Needle

    Sideboard
    3 Sudden Shock
    2 Goblin Cratermaker
    1 Abrade
    2 Defense Grid
    4 Faerie Macabre
    3 Trinisphere

    This is what i'll jam in a few weeks..
    I love the all in approach. Hell replace the Fiery Confluence with Blightsteel Collossus or Griselbrand or Emrakul or Inferno Titan to make it even more of a turn 1/2 win deck.

    Or Chandra instead of Fiery Confluence increases consistency but Fiery is fantastic as well. I love the approach.

  4. #1124

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    I love the all in approach. Hell replace the Fiery Confluence with Blightsteel Collossus or Griselbrand or Emrakul or Inferno Titan to make it even more of a turn 1/2 win deck.

    Or Chandra instead of Fiery Confluence increases consistency but Fiery is fantastic as well. I love the approach.
    I think fiery confluence is very strong... I test yesterday this list 4 1 in league.

    Ilharg is best card in this deck

  5. #1125

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by caprino View Post
    I think fiery confluence is very strong... I test yesterday this list 4 1 in league.

    Ilharg is best card in this deck
    Yeah Ilharg is amazing. I am sold on it as a 4. With it, I am noticing a turn 1/2 sneak effect just about every hand that has a Seething Song in it which makes me think that Seething Song as a 4 of is also the correct call.

    Thats how I ended up here...

    Im leaning towards a 2/2 split between Blood Moon and Inferno Titan in the 1 of slots. Blood Moon steals games (the strength of the card is heavily dependent on your local meta). Chandra is pretty slow and Inferno Titan has a very similar impact as Fiery Confluence but can also win games all by itself.
    Last edited by Captain Hammer; 04-27-2019 at 03:00 AM.

  6. #1126

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Yeah Ilharg is amazing. I am sold on it as a 4. With it, I am noticing a turn 1/2 sneak effect just about every hand that has a Seething Song in it which makes me think that Seething Song as a 4 of is also the correct call.

    Thats how I ended up here...



    Im leaning towards a 2/2 split between Blood Moon and Inferno Titan in the 1 of slots. Blood Moon steals games (the strength of the card is heavily dependent on your local meta). Chandra is pretty slow and Inferno Titan has a very similar impact as Fiery Confluence but can also win games all by itself.
    Do you like griselbrand? I think 4 wurm 4 ilhagar 3 emrakul 2 inferno titan is good

  7. #1127

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by caprino View Post
    Do you like griselbrand? I think 4 wurm 4 ilhagar 3 emrakul 2 inferno titan is good
    I like Wurm except vs StP. Wurm can win the game by itself when paired with any of the sneak effects, but it has no natural immunity to exile/tuck/bounce effects.

    Emrakul, while it doesnt do enough damage to win the game by itself, is immune to spells like StP and Griselbrand draws 14 cards when StPed. So yes I like Griselbrand. It gives you a tons of cards (enough to all but guarantee a win next turn) no matter what removal or sweeper or tuck/bounce effect it gets hit with.

  8. #1128
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    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    I like Wurm except vs StP. Wurm can win the game by itself when paired with any of the sneak effects, but it has no natural immunity to exile/tuck/bounce effects.

    Emrakul, while it doesnt do enough damage to win the game by itself, is immune to spells like StP and Griselbrand draws 14 cards when StPed. So yes I like Griselbrand. It gives you a tons of cards (enough to all but guarantee a win next turn) no matter what removal or sweeper or tuck/bounce effect it gets hit with.
    Fiery Confluence completely obliterates moon-stompy & dnt. It also gives us main deck answers to ensnaring bridge and can bait counters. If you get enough reps in you will learn that more often than not you can be in the position where you turn 1 or 2 Emmy with Sneak or Breach, deal them 15 - they lose only 1 or 2 permanents and you end up bricking and lose the game with them stuck at 5 life. Having Fiery Confluence backup can get you there with the 6 additional damage to the face. It is such a versatile card.

    I've found success without bloodmoon but won't knock anyone for running it. What percentage of deck's will you realistically face that don't run any basics? 5%? 15%? Even Eldrazi runs Grim Monolith... It isn't worth it to me to turn off my own sol lands, slow down my own mana ramp in order to possibly lock someone out if i'm on the play and I have a blood moon turn 1. It feels bad when you go turn 1 blood moon and the opponent goes dark depth no counters, mox diamond spirit guide pitch- k-grip/trophy the bloodmoon gg. This is my own take, the jury may still be out... Yes it can be a lock, but honestly if it doesn't win the game on the spot I don't want it taking away from our plan A - Alpha strike to the max!

    Call me crazy but I don't think griselbrand is an auto include in this deck going forward. Yes I know it can help you win turn 1. And yes I've heard of card advantage as well. However when you really break it down griselbrand is a card that can only be cheated in. The only role it has in the deck is to help you search for Emmy or Wurm. There will be times when we are below 8 life and can't activate, or worse we activate and still whiff during critical turns. Both instances should never happen if we simply replaced those copies of griselbrand with more redundant copies of the big fatties we are digging for in the first place, there would be no need to draw 7 and hope for the best. Think of it this way: If the only win condition in our deck were lightning bolts (Emmy & Wurm), wouldn't it make more sense to just run more copies of the lightning bolts, or would you want to dilute the deck with cards they may find lightning bolts (Griselbrand). I don't think it makes sense to run copies of griselbrand until you have already maxed out with 4x Wurm + 4x Emmy. 8x big's plus Boar and Inferno Titan's should be enough I would think.

    Swords? You gotta put the chalice on 1 ;)

  9. #1129
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    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    Fiery Confluence completely obliterates moon-stompy & dnt. It also gives us main deck answers to ensnaring bridge and can bait counters. If you get enough reps in you will learn that more often than not you can be in the position where you turn 1 or 2 Emmy with Sneak or Breach, deal them 15 - they lose only 1 or 2 permanents and you end up bricking and lose the game with them stuck at 5 life. Having Fiery Confluence backup can get you there with the 6 additional damage to the face. It is such a versatile card.

    I've found success without bloodmoon but won't knock anyone for running it. What percentage of deck's will you realistically face that don't run any basics? 5%? 15%? Even Eldrazi runs Grim Monolith... It isn't worth it to me to turn off my own sol lands, slow down my own mana ramp in order to possibly lock someone out if i'm on the play and I have a blood moon turn 1. It feels bad when you go turn 1 blood moon and the opponent goes dark depth no counters, mox diamond spirit guide pitch- k-grip/trophy the bloodmoon gg. This is my own take, the jury may still be out... Yes it can be a lock, but honestly if it doesn't win the game on the spot I don't want it taking away from our plan A - Alpha strike to the max!

    Call me crazy but I don't think griselbrand is an auto include in this deck going forward. Yes I know it can help you win turn 1. And yes I've heard of card advantage as well. However when you really break it down griselbrand is a card that can only be cheated in. The only role it has in the deck is to help you search for Emmy or Wurm. There will be times when we are below 8 life and can't activate, or worse we activate and still whiff during critical turns. Both instances should never happen if we simply replaced those copies of griselbrand with more redundant copies of the big fatties we are digging for in the first place, there would be no need to draw 7 and hope for the best. Think of it this way: If the only win condition in our deck were lightning bolts (Emmy & Wurm), wouldn't it make more sense to just run more copies of the lightning bolts, or would you want to dilute the deck with cards they may find lightning bolts (Griselbrand). I don't think it makes sense to run copies of griselbrand until you have already maxed out with 4x Wurm + 4x Emmy. 8x big's plus Boar and Inferno Titan's should be enough I would think.

    Swords? You gotta put the chalice on 1 ;)
    I've played about 20 games with the boar, he feels more like a win more card. He isn't as good as inferno titan if you cast him from your hand. He also gets bounced by karakas.

  10. #1130

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Ilharg is definitely not win more. Just the opposite. Proxies of it already won me plenty of games by itself that I otherwise would have whiffed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    Swords? You gotta put the chalice on 1 ;)
    If a Chalice on 1 landing and sticking around on the board was guaranteed every game, the rest of this debate is moot. This would already be the best deck in the format.

    You make a fair point about Griselbrand. Sometimes Gris feels inadequate. At the same time, Gris draws you a bunch of cards even if your opponent has an untapped Karakas where Emrakul would do nothing. So no its not worth removing without more testing. Perhaps I will try out 4 Wurm, 3 Emmy, 3 Inferno (I actually like him more than Fiery Confluence since it can serve so many more roles whether hardcast, sneaked or recurred with ilharg), 1 Griselbrand (to test), 1 Fiery Confluence (to test) and 1 Crystal Vein (to test, it helps with hardcasting Inferno and it also makes turn 1 seething song + combo more easily achievable) in the test slots.
    Last edited by Captain Hammer; 04-27-2019 at 12:40 PM.

  11. #1131
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    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Ilharg is definitely not win more. Just the opposite. Proxies of it already won me plenty of games by itself that I otherwise would have whiffed.



    If a Chalice on 1 landing and sticking around on the board was guaranteed every game, the rest of this debate is moot. This would already be the best deck in the format.

    You make a fair point about Griselbrand. Sometimes Gris feels inadequate. At the same time, Gris draws you a bunch of cards even if your opponent has an untapped Karakas where Emrakul would do nothing. So no its not worth removing without more testing. Perhaps I will try out 4 Wurm, 3 Emmy, 3 Inferno (I actually like him more than Fiery Confluence since it can serve so many more roles whether hardcast, sneaked or recurred with ilharg), 1 Griselbrand (to test), 1 Fiery Confluence (to test) and 1 Crystal Vein (to test, it helps with hardcasting Inferno and it also makes turn 1 seething song + combo more easily achievable) in the test slots.

    Yeah that seems great keep testing. I think 4 song's is the correct call as well. Seething Song is also an easy card to board out against counter spell decks.
    Before the printing of Ilharg I was on the TKS + Chandra train as a plan B to round out the swingyness of the combo. But with Ilharg I think we want to go all in again.

  12. #1132

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Ilharg is definitely not win more. Just the opposite. Proxies of it already won me plenty of games by itself that I otherwise would have whiffed.



    If a Chalice on 1 landing and sticking around on the board was guaranteed every game, the rest of this debate is moot. This would already be the best deck in the format.

    You make a fair point about Griselbrand. Sometimes Gris feels inadequate. At the same time, Gris draws you a bunch of cards even if your opponent has an untapped Karakas where Emrakul would do nothing. So no its not worth removing without more testing. Perhaps I will try out 4 Wurm, 3 Emmy, 3 Inferno (I actually like him more than Fiery Confluence since it can serve so many more roles whether hardcast, sneaked or recurred with ilharg), 1 Griselbrand (to test), 1 Fiery Confluence (to test) and 1 Crystal Vein (to test, it helps with hardcasting Inferno and it also makes turn 1 seething song + combo more easily achievable) in the test slots.
    Do you play 1 crystal vein 2 sandstone 4 city 4 tomb 9 mountain?

  13. #1133

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    I wouldnt say that Ilharg is the best card in the deck, but its probably top 3, just behind Sneak Attack and Chalice.

    Quote Originally Posted by caprino View Post
    Do you play 1 crystal vein 2 sandstone 4 city 4 tomb 9 mountain?
    Yes, thats what I am testing now. I like it. Its solid acceleration and helps with hardcasting Titan as well.

  14. #1134

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    I wouldnt say that Ilharg is the best card in the deck, but its probably top 3, just behind Sneak Attack and Chalice.



    Yes, thats what I am testing now. I like it. Its solid acceleration and helps with hardcasting Titan as well.
    Write list main deck and side you play in this moment thanks.

    Today I w four games vs show and tell, ant, burn, elf.. Lose vs uw Helm rest in peace ecc...

    I think vs counter deck is hard..3/4 copy defense grid not bad in side
    Last edited by caprino; 04-28-2019 at 04:13 AM.

  15. #1135

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by caprino View Post
    Write list main deck and side you play in this moment thanks.

    Today I w four games vs show and tell, ant, burn, elf.. Lose vs uw Helm rest in peace ecc...

    I think vs counter deck is hard..3/4 copy defense grid not bad in side
    My sideboard is all over the place. I end up changing it after every few games and havent settled on it yet but here are the staples...
    Trinisphere (vs faster combo and can swap in place of lotus petal against delver/cantrip decks)
    Blood Moon (vs lands and weak manabases)
    Defense Grid (counter decks are tough without it, can be used along with the other two options above to switch to a slower approach (cutting lotus petal in some matchups))
    Fairie Macabre (vs grave combo)

    As for my mainlist...

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 Through the Breach

    4 Worldspine Wurm
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3 Inferno Titan
    2 Griselbrand

    9 Mountain
    2 Sandstone Needle
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Seething Song
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    I am at times tempted to cut Griselbrand to go with 4 Emrakul and 4 Inferno Titan.

  16. #1136

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    My sideboard is all over the place. I end up changing it after every few games and havent settled on it yet but here are the staples...
    Trinisphere (vs faster combo and can swap in place of lotus petal against delver/cantrip decks)
    Blood Moon (vs lands and weak manabases)
    Defense Grid (counter decks are tough without it, can be used along with the other two options above to switch to a slower approach (cutting lotus petal in some matchups))
    Fairie Macabre (vs grave combo)

    As for my mainlist...

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 Through the Breach

    4 Worldspine Wurm
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3 Inferno Titan
    2 Griselbrand

    9 Mountain
    2 Sandstone Needle
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Seething Song
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    I am at times tempted to cut Griselbrand to go with 4 Emrakul and 4 Inferno Titan.
    What do you think? (you have a PM)
    4 macabre
    3 defense grid
    2 blood moon
    3 sudden shock
    2 trinisphere
    1 abrade /goblin crat.


    I think 4 emrakul is much. 3 is good main deck...4 inferno titan is great

    You vs counter deck no cut seething soong? Cut petal? Interesting

    Why no fiery confluence main deck?

  17. #1137

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    My sideboard is all over the place. I end up changing it after every few games and havent settled on it yet but here are the staples...
    Trinisphere (vs faster combo and can swap in place of lotus petal against delver/cantrip decks)
    Blood Moon (vs lands and weak manabases)
    Defense Grid (counter decks are tough without it, can be used along with the other two options above to switch to a slower approach (cutting lotus petal in some matchups))
    Fairie Macabre (vs grave combo)

    As for my mainlist...

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 Through the Breach

    4 Worldspine Wurm
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3 Inferno Titan
    2 Griselbrand

    9 Mountain
    2 Sandstone Needle
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Seething Song
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    I am at times tempted to cut Griselbrand to go with 4 Emrakul and 4 Inferno Titan.
    Yesterday I test same you list main deck no griselbrand 4 emrakul 4 inferno titan and side same (fallen empire)

    4 1 in league mtgo w vs miracle, stoneblade, post ramp, loam... Lose vs dredge

    Very good

  18. #1138

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    I really love decks that are all 4x. To my knowledge, the only successful deck to achieve this in the history of MTG is Quadlaser. The below list would be second deck to pull it off...

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 Through the Breach
    4 Worldspine Wurm
    4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 Inferno Titan

    4 Mountain
    4 Snow-covered Mountain
    4 Sandstone Needle
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Seething Song
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    SB:
    4 Faerie Macabre
    4 Defense Grid
    4 Sulfur Elemental
    3 Trinisphere
    Last edited by Clark Kant; 05-01-2019 at 07:21 PM.

  19. #1139

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by caprino View Post
    What do you think? (you have a PM)
    4 macabre
    3 defense grid
    2 blood moon
    3 sudden shock
    2 trinisphere
    1 abrade /goblin crat.


    I think 4 emrakul is much. 3 is good main deck...4 inferno titan is great

    You vs counter deck no cut seething soong? Cut petal? Interesting

    Why no fiery confluence main deck?
    I sometimes cut both petal and some seething songs when I know its going to be a long game against a controllish matchup. Might not be correct.

    I didnt like Fiery Confluence. Titan plays a similar role.

    I like your sideboard. Looks like it has something against every matchup.

    Congrats on your finish on MTGO. I should try MTGO sometime.

  20. #1140

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    I sometimes cut both petal and some seething songs when I know its going to be a long game against a controllish matchup. Might not be correct.

    I didnt like Fiery Confluence. Titan plays a similar role.

    I like your sideboard. Looks like it has something against every matchup.

    Congrats on your finish on MTGO. I should try MTGO sometime.
    Today I test trinisphere main deck 3x...i love this card vs more matchup

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