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Thread: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

  1. #1161

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    My maindeck Trinisphere list:

    9 Mountain
    4 City
    4 Tomb
    2 Sandstone
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 SSG
    4 Seething Song
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Inferno Titan
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 TTB
    4 Boar
    2 Griselbrand
    3 Wurm
    3 Emrakul

    My version without Titan:

    9 Mountain
    4 City
    4 Tomb
    2 Sandstone
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 SSG
    4 Seething Song
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 TTB
    4 Boar
    4 Griselbrand
    4 Wurm
    4 Emrakul

    Both have sideboard:
    4 Faerie Macabre
    3 Defense Grid
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Abrade
    2 Cratermaker
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

    My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.

    I am the Legacy metagame:

    -2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
    -2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)

  2. #1162

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    My maindeck Trinisphere list:

    9 Mountain
    4 City
    4 Tomb
    2 Sandstone
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 SSG
    4 Seething Song
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Inferno Titan
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 TTB
    4 Boar
    2 Griselbrand
    3 Wurm
    3 Emrakul

    My version without Titan:

    9 Mountain
    4 City
    4 Tomb
    2 Sandstone
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 SSG
    4 Seething Song
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 TTB
    4 Boar
    4 Griselbrand
    4 Wurm
    4 Emrakul

    Both have sideboard:
    4 Faerie Macabre
    3 Defense Grid
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Abrade
    2 Cratermaker
    Yesterday I test this list
    4 city
    4 tomb
    2 sandstone
    10 mountain

    4 chalice
    4 song
    4 petal
    4 sneak
    4 ttb
    3 trini
    2 fiery confluence

    4 simian
    4 boar
    2 emrakul
    2 wurm
    3 titan

    Side
    4 macabre
    3 sudden shock
    2 abrade
    2 goblin crater
    2 defense grid
    2 blood moon

    4 1 and 3 2 in league

    I love chalice and trini main deck, I think 4x boar is much what do you think? My idea is - 2 boar - 2 fiery confluence +4 blood moon main deck

  3. #1163

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    How do you guys like Crystal Vein? 9 mountain is plenty but I cant decide between 1 vein + 2 sandstone vs just playing 3 sandstone.

    DNS Solver, I love both your lists. In the list without Titan, I would probably cut a wurm/emmy/gris/a trini for atleast a single Fiery Confluence as an answer to maindeck Ensnaring Bridge that Gris can help you draw into. Fiery Confluence offers similar flexibility to Titan vs creatures and I would want to play either one or the other maindeck.

    Caprino, congrats the wins.

    The list you’re suggesting seems inconsistent, especially given the excellent results with the more consistent builds. The newest list is making a mistake playing 4 sneak attack and 4 TTB but only a total of 4 creatures that combo well with them (2 emmy/2 wurm/0 gris), in a deck with no cantrips or tutors, which means the TTB/Sneak will be dead cards way too often. I think this deck should minimum devote 6-7 slots to those three creatures (I play 8, my list hasnt changed). Otherwise the combo component becomes way too inconsistent). At that point, I think a Moon Stompy list would be better.

    The strength of Boar is that it doubles as both a sneak effect and an aggressive beater thats bigger than any fair threat in legacy. Titan also has similar flexibility which is what makes these cards so effective in the deck. I could see at most cutting 2 of these slots but no more.

    If I wanted to play several copies of chalice, trini, Fiery Confluence and moon all maindeck, I would rather play moon stompy. This deck can at most devote 8-9 total slots to these cards (cutting one or two lotus petal/song, and at most take away 2-3 slots from griselbrand/emmy/wurm/titan to accomidate them). If lotus petals get cut, the list should no longer be playing Griselbrand imo since petal is key to Griselbrand being effective. Perhaps something like 3-4 Chalice, 2-3 Trini, 2-3 Moon, 0-2 Fiery Confluence (only for metas with Ensnaring Bridges) could work since all those cards are worse in multiples but I wouldnt devote more than 8-9 total slots to those four cards.
    Last edited by Captain Hammer; 05-05-2019 at 10:00 AM.

  4. #1164

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    New test list I will br trying:

    9 Mountain
    4 City
    4 Tomb
    2 Sandstone
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 SSG
    4 Seething Song
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 TTB
    3 Boar
    3 Griselbrand
    4 Wurm
    3 Emrakul
    *3 Faithless Looting*

    4 Faerie Macabre
    3 Defense Grid
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Abrade
    2 Cratermaker
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

    My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.

    I am the Legacy metagame:

    -2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
    -2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)

  5. #1165

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    My sideboard is all over the place. I end up changing it after every few games and havent settled on it yet but here are the staples...
    Trinisphere (vs faster combo and can swap in place of lotus petal against delver/cantrip decks)
    Blood Moon (vs lands and weak manabases)
    Defense Grid (counter decks are tough without it, can be used along with the other two options above to switch to a slower approach (cutting lotus petal in some matchups))
    Fairie Macabre (vs grave combo)

    As for my mainlist...

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 Through the Breach

    4 Worldspine Wurm
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3 Inferno Titan
    2 Griselbrand

    9 Mountain
    2 Sandstone Needle
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Seething Song
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    I am at times tempted to cut Griselbrand to go with 4 Emrakul and 4 Inferno Titan.
    You play this list? 4 inferno 4 emrakul no griselbrand right?
    Same lands?
    You side?

  6. #1166

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Yes, the same list. Play it with friends, dont have MTGO.

    Side is...
    4 Faerie Macabre
    3 Defense Grid
    3 Trinisphere
    2 Fiery Confluence
    2 Cratermaker
    1 Blood Moon

  7. #1167

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    Yes, the same list. Play it with friends, dont have MTGO.

    Side is...
    4 Faerie Macabre
    3 Defense Grid
    3 Trinisphere
    2 Fiery Confluence
    2 Cratermaker
    1 Blood Moon
    You side in and side out vs miracle, grixis delver, grixis control, death and taxes, and dark depht, lands and snake and show? Thanks.

    I test you list today

  8. #1168
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    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-boar-attack-legacy


    Nice DNSolver! How do you like the chalice in the sb and the main deck faithless?

  9. #1169

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-boar-attack-legacy


    Nice DNSolver! How do you like the chalice in the sb and the main deck faithless?
    Yeah I really don't get the logic in 4 Trinisphere. 3 is plenty and it's useless in multiples.

    And I absolutely think Chalice is 4 of MD and much stronger than Faithless.

    I would go...
    -3 Faithless
    -1 Trini
    +4 Chalice

  10. #1170

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Delver doesn't roll over to Chalice anymore (as in, not like ~5 years ago) with threats like Young Pyromancer, TNN, and Angler. More threats that can actually kill you. Further, Grixis Control can easily kill whichever of these artifacts, but at least Hymn is slowed down. Trinisphere is also GG vs ANT, probably GG vs TES, probably GG vs Reanimator, and vs Sneak and Show makes it so Omniscience isn't really viable, so they're down to needing 4 sneak attacks as they can't Show and Tell vs us. Trinisphere is also fairly castable on turn 1 like Chalice. Turn 1 trinisphere almost always protects better for a turn 2 combo than Chalice.

    In this particular shell I constructed, I wanted to play a few Lootings. This tilted the balance even more in favor of playing Trinisphere over Chalice. Lootings were okay. I think going back to a version with more 5 or 6 mana hardcastable threats might be more viable though to have more play vs the only card we care about - Containment Priest. I think the best options are:

    Inferno Titan
    Godo
    Batterskull
    Wurmcoil

    I could see playing BSkull with or without Godo but I think it's probably pretty bad. Inferno Titan is probably just the best.
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

    My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.

    I am the Legacy metagame:

    -2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
    -2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)

  11. #1171

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Ilharg the Raze Boar should absolutely be a 4 of if you're going to dedicate 10 slots to uncastable creatures. But I think dedicating 10 slots of creatures you can never hard cast might be a mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    Delver doesn't roll over to Chalice anymore (as in, not like ~5 years ago) with threats like Young Pyromancer, TNN, and Angler. More threats that can actually kill you. Further, Grixis Control can easily kill whichever of these artifacts, but at least Hymn is slowed down. Trinisphere is also GG vs ANT, probably GG vs TES, probably GG vs Reanimator, and vs Sneak and Show makes it so Omniscience isn't really viable, so they're down to needing 4 sneak attacks as they can't Show and Tell vs us. Trinisphere is also fairly castable on turn 1 like Chalice. Turn 1 trinisphere almost always protects better for a turn 2 combo than Chalice.

    In this particular shell I constructed, I wanted to play a few Lootings. This tilted the balance even more in favor of playing Trinisphere over Chalice. Lootings were okay. I think going back to a version with more 5 or 6 mana hardcastable threats might be more viable though to have more play vs the only card we care about - Containment Priest. I think the best options are:

    Inferno Titan
    Godo
    Batterskull
    Wurmcoil

    I could see playing BSkull with or without Godo but I think it's probably pretty bad. Inferno Titan is probably just the best.
    Ok, that makes sense.

    Yeah I agree Inferno Titan is amazing, and the best of the threats you listed.

    If you go down to 3 trinisphere and cut a couple of griselbrand you could would have enough room to play both inferno titan and faithless looting.

  12. #1172
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    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lotus Petal

    3 Inferno Titan
    4 Worldspine Wurm
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    3 Ilharg, the Raze-Boar

    4 Sneak Attack
    4 Through the Breach
    3 Seething Song

    10 Mountain
    2 Sandstone Needle
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors

    3 Karn, the Great Creator
    1 Fiery Confluence

    -Sideboard-
    3 Defense Grid
    3 Trinisphere
    1 Mycosynth Lattice

    3 Faerie Macabre
    2 Ashen Rider
    2 Sudden Shock
    1 Fiery Confluence


    If any deck is going to jam Karn we have the mana ramp to do it. Titan belongs in the main. It is a main deck answer to Teeg and more often than not just takes over the game when on board. Sudden Shock has proven amazing against containment priest decks. Abrade or Cratermaker may also make the cut in the sb... We don't care about new Teferi or Narset - I think this deck is great in the current meta with the London mull on the horizon.

  13. #1173

    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    I thought about Karn but I don't think this deck seems suited to it. We might not be able to cast lattice reliably enough, and there are no payoff cards besides lattice. We can't run lock cards like bridge. Perhaps put a quicksilver amulet in the board? And perhaps a blight steel or something like that in case you need a fatty.

    If you posted that list as an example of one you've played with, let me know - I'm interpreting it as construction theory.
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

    My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.

    I am the Legacy metagame:

    -2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
    -2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)

  14. #1174
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    Re: Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack)

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    I thought about Karn but I don't think this deck seems suited to it. We might not be able to cast lattice reliably enough, and there are no payoff cards besides lattice. We can't run lock cards like bridge. Perhaps put a quicksilver amulet in the board? And perhaps a blight steel or something like that in case you need a fatty.

    If you posted that list as an example of one you've played with, let me know - I'm interpreting it as construction theory.
    I haven't jammed Karn yet it paper. I think I might have to give it a whirl though. Quicksilver and blightsteel are interesting..

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