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Thread: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

  1. #421

    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    The fact that the deck can recover from 8 forces isn't reason to play them. To be fair, I'm not sure what your local meta is like, whether you play online or in paper.

    In a room full of mono belcher, yes play 8 forces. In a room full of 4C pile and delver, force of will will put you too much behind in the early game that your opponents resources will come online before you can really stabilize.

    Often (not always), will you find yourself boarding out force of will in midrange match ups, and if that is what you can expect to face, g1 with 8 force of wills will probably put you on the play game 2. But to be fair, it will depend heavily on what type of decks you expect to play against.

  2. #422
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobra_D View Post
    The fact that the deck can recover from 8 forces isn't reason to play them. To be fair, I'm not sure what your local meta is like, whether you play online or in paper.

    In a room full of mono belcher, yes play 8 forces. In a room full of 4C pile and delver, force of will will put you too much behind in the early game that your opponents resources will come online before you can really stabilize.

    Often (not always), will you find yourself boarding out force of will in midrange match ups, and if that is what you can expect to face, g1 with 8 force of wills will probably put you on the play game 2. But to be fair, it will depend heavily on what type of decks you expect to play against.
    You'd be foolish to jam 8 forces in the deck on game 1. but if game 2 hits and you play against combo, I see nothing wrong with going up in the count. I wouldn't play 8...but i will do 6 plus pierces, flusters and such.

  3. #423

    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobra_D View Post
    I know how attractive of a mechanic cascade is but it feels like a trap.

    Playing it means we lose on quality blue interaction, spell pierce, daze, stifle.

    Up to 8 forces is nice but it you don't want to 2 for 1 yourself at every decision point.

    If miracles is a hard match up try more walkers. Narset or pfire/dack are hard to answer.

    You could also try the cephalis coliseum lock with Narset and W6. Those 3 are lights out for most decks if you can make it to the late game stage of things.
    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    You'd be foolish to jam 8 forces in the deck on game 1. but if game 2 hits and you play against combo, I see nothing wrong with going up in the count. I wouldn't play 8...but i will do 6 plus pierces, flusters and such.
    Spell pierce sounds pretty good, smart and insightful conclusion.

    ~Edit~
    To clarify, my original statement was meant to be read as such:
    "Currently a cursory search will show blue decks playing between 4 and 8 pieces of counter magic. Combo decks going to 4 or less, Tempo decks playing the full 8 pieces and with midrange and control playing 5/6. Although this deck can play 8 forces, simpler solutions to counter magic such as spell pierce, daze, and flusterstorm (with my preference in that order) become playable if cascade is not a mechanic played in the deck. "

  4. #424
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Hereís a rough draft. The cards that we definitely want to be utilizing are Wrenn and Six and Dreadhorde Arcanist.

    20 Lands
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ancestral Vision
    4 FoW
    2 Force of Negation
    4 Shardless Agent
    4 Dreadhorde Arcanist
    3 Wrenn and Six
    1 As Foretold
    3 Tarmogoyf
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Crashing Footfalls
    2 Jace, TMS
    2 Faithless Looting (to get stuff in the bin for Dreadhorde; combos to some extent with Wrenn via extra lands)

    Initial SB:
    4 Leyline of the Void (given the new mulligan rules, youíre very likely to find one and be able to protect it with Force of W/N)
    2 Force of Negation
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    X Chill (or just a bunch of Hydroblasts)

    Tarmogoyf is likely the least interesting card, but he serves a purpose in being a threat and a wall to buy some time as needed.

    Some other cards to consider:
    -Icefang Coatl: provides a possible defense against creatures while you assemble your combo
    -Bloodbraid Elf: more options of cascading into your bombs
    -Ramp: DRS will be greatly missed, but alas there arenít really any alternatives that fit the bill. The closest option is maybe Noble Hierarch, but this deck can mostly work off of 2-3 mana.

    The point with this deck is to play a control deck that can go over the top via its busted Cascade spells. Sometimes even just suspending a Vision on turn 1 will be enough to push you ahead in the mid game.

  5. #425
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    Re: Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

    Thinking more about the deck, Iím thinking that a template we could draw from is the Shardless BUG lists played back in the Deathrite Shaman era. Obviously we donít have DRS anymore, but Wrenn and Six fills a somewhat similar role. I think Red is probably just going to be a small splash, with BUG being the main colors.

    Hereís a historical list:
    https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9439&d=254114&f=LE

    Abrupt Decay helps out a lot vs the Red Moon decks seeing play, and we could also adjust the list to be favored against the current top tier lists. In particular, Baleful Strix seems pretty good against Marit Lage and fairly good against Delver and Goyfs. Thereís plenty of other new cards that could bring this deck back into competition. I just think this would be a more competitive direction to take the deck, rather than being in danger of cool things by emphasizing the suspend spells too much.

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