Waterfalls (RUG Cascade!)

[HSCK]

Sorry, it's somewhere in the Dailies, I'm a little lazy to do it. It was definitely up in the last week though.

[hartigan]

Sorry, it's somewhere in the Dailies, I'm a little lazy to do it. It was definitely up in the last week though.

Well I guess I'll scour them for the list... if I find it I'll post it here.

EDIT... Here's the list:

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 True-Name Nemesis

4 Ancestral Vision

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
2 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
3 Lightning Bolt

2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

SIDEBOARD
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Duress
2 Engineered Plague
2 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Thoughtseize

[anwei]

I played this at a small (17) event this weekend and took 3rd. As always, I find this one of the most fun decks in the format, and one of the most powerful fair decks. Here's what I ran:

=22 Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Trop
2 Volc
1 U Sea
1 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Tar Pit
3 Grove of the Burnwillows

=17 Dudes
4 DRS
4 Sharldess Agent
4 Goyf
1 Baleful Strix
3 BBE
1 JTMS

=21 Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Vision
2 Bolt
3 Decay
3 Punishing Fire
4 FoW
2 Thoughtseize

Board
2 Thoughtseize
2 Engineered Plague
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 G Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Null Rod
1 JTMS
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Maelstrom Pulse

I traveled to play and didn't know quite what to expect, but expected lots of fair blue decks. I think there were 0 Delver/Wasteland decks, 5 Infect, a couple of oddballs (Painter, Junk Depths, Eureka), and 1-3 of other normals like SnT, Reanimator, Miracles, Stoneblade, Burn and Storm. Avoid the SnT and Storm, and it should be a fine pick. After going undefeated in 5 rounds of swiss and (barely) beating Storm in T8, I lost to Miracles in the T4 in a very disheartening fashion. I had a "normal" G1 and quickly blew him out, then what seemed like an unlucky G2 with a good number of running whiffs, before a dreadful G3 where I had literally 12ish turns to hit *anything* and came up with maybe 9 lands and a couple Deathrite/Goyf. Good for a Bayou.

Notes/thoughts:
- I built the deck to win my good matches. I minimally committed to playing against SnT or Storm, and generally with cards that are fine in other matches (Null Rod and Venser). I doubt that 4 more slots for either match would make it good, so I didn't really bother. I'd probably add a second Venser, and do more in a still-more-open meta where I expected Omni-Tell (as I did not, here).
- Graveyard decks are much easier to hate out, and are more common at these sort of events, so I packed hate. In a more-open meta, I'd cut one of these.
- Carpets were mainly for tempo decks, but became my pet tech and I brought them in against Blade and Miracles. Turns out, the dream draws of action into cascading into action and visions and so-much-gas that Carpet-fueled value-trains make them want to quit magic aren't as common as I'd imagined, and I mainly drew it hellbent as a topdeck. I still don't know how good it is. It obviously compares favorably to DRS as an accelerator in my opening hand, and that's a big deal for this deck. It's also very good defense of the otherwise-fragile manabase against tempo, or allows me to capitalize on multiple Groves. I'd probably keep these, but be slower to side them in for grindy matches.
- P. Fire remains one of the hardest questions of building the deck. I never had both together, which wasn't too fun. I'd imagine it's good enough to run.
- You really give up a lot in several matches. You can win Omnitell or Storm games, but you need to draw and play well. Many fair matches are so good, though, that I'd still give the deck a thumbs up in fair metas, or when you're looking to cash but not necessarily T8 an Open, or (best of all) when you want to have fun.

Changes I'll make:
-1 removal (bolt, if I keep P. Fire), +1 JTMS maindeck
Considering -1 Trop, -1 Bayou; +1 Forest, +1 U Sea
Considering cutting P. Fire
SB: -1 JTMS, -1 Surgical Extraction, +1 Venser, +1 Jitte (or 4th Decay, Chill, Pyroblast, Cabal Therapy, Duress, Clique, Lily, etc.)

[HSCK]

Have you still been playing this? It looks like the format's pretty settled and I want try a deck that has some brute force to it but won't fold to combo either.

[anwei]

I played it again at some sort of IQ a few weeks back and opened 0-2 (both close) to TNN and Lands.

I still think it's one of the funnest decks, but, it objectively probably isn't too well-positioned. The best times for the deck are probably when the meta has high concentrations of Shardless, slower (non-RUG) Delver, and Miracles. If (e.g.) BUG Delver and Miracles can keep combo at bay enough for Shardless to thrive, those 3 all seem like fine match-ups. RUG Delver and combo are not particularly good match-ups.
Dig Through Time is an economical enough card that Shardless has seemed pretty outclassed lately (Miracles can outdraw it), and Omni-Tell is tough to beat, even post-board.

[HSCK]

I wonder if it's time to revisit this with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in a slot or two.

[ironclad8690]

So, now that Grixis is gone, I find myself with a bunch of Underground Seas, Tropical Islands, and Volcanic Islands (and 1 Badlands).

What are people playing these days?

According to the post above, it appears this deck will be at least decently positioned again with a rise in BUG based decks and Miracles.

[anwei]

I'd expect that the widespread meta in the next few weeks has the most to do with (a) what people expect to be good now and (b) what people are excited to return to, as anything else. And decks like Miracles, Elves, and Shardless appear to have fans lining up to get Cascaded. So, I think it's a pretty reasonable call for a not-really-Established deck. (And way more fun than any of those 3.)

As always, the mana base is a big weakness of the deck, as Wasteland can really impede your ability to play out such a high curve and costly removal even if they *don't* cut you out of important colors. I'd expect that that's the card this deck will live or die on, if it gets played.

[hartigan]

I wonder if it's time to revisit this with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in a slot or two.

You could cut the two DTT I posted in the list above and give him a try?

I'm seriously considering playing this deck again, at least in my local meta things are probably going to be VERY fair for a little while.

[ironclad8690]

Sup guys, so I went from Jund to Delver during the whole delve debacle and then I grew frustrated with the Miracles matchup (since it feels like it is 50% of the online metagame no joke) so I found myself liking Shardless but with punishing fire and BB elf. Here is the list I arrived on:


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
3 Bloodbraid Elf

4 Brainstorm
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Punishing Fire
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil

4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit

Sideboard:
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Arcane Laboratory
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Life from the Loam
1 Umezawa's Jitte


Obviously the sideboard could use some work, but I have been having pretty good results so far online, where combo seems to have died down a bit since the ban. Anyone have any suggestions?

[HNana]

Hey all, I won a small 9 person weekly using this list:
https://twitter.com/HBSTnipponbashi/...493952/photo/1

Round 1 I played vs Bant Slivers:
Game 1 - He gets 3 muscle slivers and then played the flier, giving all his guys flying, i drew no removal.
I side out a goyf, 4 FOW and bring in murderous cut, both engineered plagues, and both null rods.
Game 2 - I drew bolts and decays, so I was able to take care of his early threats, dropping a bunch of shardless agents into goyfs/visions. Won pretty easily.
I side a null rod (there for his vial) and side in the golgari charm.
Game 3 - He mulls to 5, and I drew enough removal to get there, all the while beating with shardless/bbe.

1-0

Round 2 I play vs Mono U Wizards
Game 1 - He plays an early cursecatcher, and anything else either got decayed, bolted, and then i FOWed his opposition and he couldnt do anything.
I side out angler, a goyf, a jace, and a badlands I side in 2 engineered plague, carpet of flowers, and a murderous cut.
Game 2 - He plays out a bunch of X/1 weenie wizards. I resolve an early carpet of flowers that doesn't actually do much. I eventually resolve an engineered plague a couple turns later and he scoops.

Weird deck, the kind of deck that can lock me out of the game if he gets his pieces, but I had enough answers to not let it happen, all while applying a lot of pressure. Cascade gave too much advantage for him to deal with, and the things that could have really hurt me (static orb) didnt come.

2-0

Round 3 I play vs Death and Taxes
game 1 - I'm on the draw, he plays a plains, passes, I fetch for a sea, play DRS, pass. He swords it and then wastes my land and passes. I have plenty of land, and we pretty much do nothing for a few turns. He resolves a couple vials but i resolve a TNN. He can't get around it, and i'm able to kill his creatures or pressure more with BBE/shardless, etc.
I side out 2 FOW, 2 goyf (hes gotta have rips right?), and a jace. I side in both null rods, both plagues, murderous cut.
Game 2 - My opponent mulls to 5. He plays plains, vial, pass. I fow the vial pitching jace. I search for a sea, get DRS and pass. He again, wastes my land and swords my drs. I play another land, he wastes that too. He plays a vial and the next turn I resolve null rod. He passes, i resolve TNN turn 5 and he pretty much all but gives up.

Despite strong "swords your DRS, waste your only land" starts from d/t, I didn't really have too much of a problem with his deck. I drew a lot of lands and nailing a turn 3 TNN vs death and taxes is huge, as they have very little they can do about it.

Thoughts on the deck:
I had weird matchups today. For the mainboard, i tried an angler just to see if it would be good vs decks that run removal like decay, but he's bad against jace, miracles, stp, etc. A lot of cards do end up in my graveyard and being able to delve them is nice, but i think moving murderous cut to the main might be the right choice. Jace never got cast, but I also never went for the long game in any of my matches, I just beat down as fast as I could.
Sylvan Library is really really good. I'm pretty much always happy to see it.

Thoughts on the sideboard: Carpet of flowers isn't good. It never gave me an explosive start like I wanted and the mana rarely even did anything. I replaced it with a maelstrom pulse. I'm lacking artifact hate, so I was thinking a kolghans command might be good. Null Rod is amazing. Engineered plague is great. 4 thoughtseize makes me feel a bit better about terrible combo matchups. Everything else is necessary for anti-combo imo.

Other thoughts: I don't think the punishing fire package is necessary. Bolts were good enough, and the deck is already weak enough to wasteland.
I don't know if 2 jace is necessary, but origins jace is also a consideration. As I said Kolghans command might be good, but also might be too expensive.

The deck is really fun, and while I don't see it winning any large events, it really does beat "fair" decks pretty hard. Any suggestions for mainboard/sideboard cards to add/remove/replace would be welcome! I'm pretty adamant about not wanting to try punishing fire, because I don't like that many RG non fetchable lands in the deck.

[ironclad8690]

I'm pretty adamant about not wanting to try punishing fire, because I don't like that many RG non fetchable lands in the deck.

To each their own. Personally I love to savor that feeling when your Miracles opponent just looks at your grove + p fire and their eyes glaze over.

Anyhow nice True-Blood list. Seems consistent.

[anwei]

Sup guys, so I went from Jund to Delver during the whole delve debacle and then I grew frustrated with the Miracles matchup (since it feels like it is 50% of the online metagame no joke) so I found myself liking Shardless but with punishing fire and BB elf. Here is the list I arrived on:

I'd consider touching up the removal package to lower the curve. Not running Strix helps this, but the deck can often clog up around 2 drops, and Wasteland is already quite strong against us without. Playing like 2 Bolts as removal 7-8 really helps take back some tempo and get to your portion of the game, and 3 Punishing Fire is usually sufficient.

Hey all, I won a small 9 person weekly using this list:
https://twitter.com/HBSTnipponbashi/...493952/photo/1

I'd replace Angler with the 4th Goyf. Early cascades into Goyf can mean playing on easy mode, and it's your most reasonable clock for combo.

[HNana]

To each their own. Personally I love to savor that feeling when your Miracles opponent just looks at your grove + p fire and their eyes glaze over.

Anyhow nice True-Blood list. Seems consistent.

Yeah grove + pfire absolutely destroys a lot of decks. If I was on 3 colors, I would totally do it, but being on the 4 color list makes me kind of eh about it. Creeping tar pit gives black and blue which actually makes it really important to me otherwise that would probably get the cut too for another fetch or another sea.

Thanks! Yeah, it was very consistent. lots of fetches and all sorts of duals surprisingly gave me no issues. It was kind of funny cracking a wooded foothills and being like "wait I can't grab underground sea!" But if i needed black mana i grabbed a bayou or badlands, and if i needed blue i grabbed a trop or volc. Worked pretty well.

I'd replace Angler with the 4th Goyf. Early cascades into Goyf can mean playing on easy mode, and it's your most reasonable clock for combo.

Thanks! I'll try this! Angler is cool but just not really what this deck is about.

[Qweerios]

At one point you have to realise how much card advantage this deck's core has already and what are its good/bad matchups. If you consider 4 AV, 4 Shardless and 2-3 Bloodbraids as part of your core, I don't think PFire's additional CA/Grind abilities are that appealing considering the core contains more than enough grind for the average midrange/control matchup. Cutting into your Bolts and Decays for PFire and losing some consistency in your manabase makes our favorable matchups slightly more favorable (AKA: win more) while weakening our more swinging matchups (Delver decks) by augmenting our vulnerability to Wasteland, Daze, and aggressive openers.

Moving on to Gurmag Angler, I think Hooting Mandrill being on color, costing slightly less, and providing trample is superior. However, that slot is usually dedicated to smoothing out the blue count for FoW.

[HNana]

I changed the zombie fish to a goyf, and it seems to be working out ok. But yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with pfire. I tried the pfire version and i couldnt get grove and pfire together enough tbh.

I was thinking about trying a single copy of bring to light because it can get a bloodbraid, a decay, a visions, pretty much whatever i need at the moment. I would only be doing that cause it's "cute", not because it seems like the best option for the deck, though.

I played a bunch of matches against my 12post friend. The deck really lacks hate against nonbasics and decks like that. Thankfully nobody really plays the deck and we can race it, but when they start out turn 1 "cloudpost, go", then I think we're in trouble lol.

[Qweerios]

You could always pack some blood moons in the sb.

[HNana]

You could always pack some blood moons in the sb.

I can't tell if you're joking or not. =|

[Qweerios]

I can't tell if you're joking or not. =|

No I am not. We have virtually no avenues against Lands and Dark Depths combo decks (anything packing WasteLoam really). We can cast all of our spells using only a basic forest and a basic island since Abrupt Decay is not very useful against those decks anyway. If the purpose of your sideboard is to improve your worst matchups and blood moon is one of the best cards to play against your worst matchup, then I suggest playing it.

Moreover, with a sb plan containing 3 Blood Moons, playing Wasteland in the main could be substituted by more colored lands, perhaps a Creeping Tar Pit and/or the new GU hexproof land.

Ps: I play a single Blood Moon with my Enlightened Tutor package in my 4 colored bombardment deck with only 1 swamp as basic land and it works great.

[HNana]

Ah, I'm playing the 4 color version, I run 6 different types of dual lands (any nonwhite ones), 0 basics, and 0 wastelands. A blood moon would def mess me up more than it would help against lands/12post. I play each color about even, so unless i have one island, one swamp, and one forest, I would be in trouble. Even stuff like crumble to dust isn't any good because they can crop rotate in response. Maybe some maindeck wastelands might be the key for my build...