You should have a basic forest and a basic island in your deck so you dont lose to blood moon(and also play it if you desire) or price of progress. I don't know how black heavy you are but Deathrite is perfectly fine under blood moon without a black source and, as mentioned in my last post, decays shouldnt be missed too much. Do you play thoughtseize mainboard or something? If you are, it's an unecessary stretch of the manabase and the card is hideous against loam decks anyway. Other than that, I fail to see what black cards you need to play so much in your UGrb deck.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Yeah, I might try to get rid of black and run the punishing fire package (and a basic forest/island). I have a lot of weeklies so I can definitely tune the deck in a bunch of different ways. Thanks for the tips!
Due to some poor decisions this is all I have on magic online now:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
4 Baleful Strix
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Engineered Plague
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Disfigure
2 Duress
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Notion Thief
1 Golgari Charm
Testing has been going well so far, with victories over esper mentor and merfolk. I am going to try and work my way back up to a better list, but this is what ive got in the meantime.
It basically plays like a Zoo list that operates by completely overwhelming the opponent with 1 for 1s, moreso than jund or shardless. The basic lands are nice but I miss wasteland.
This deck is so much fun
Has anyone tested x4 Sarkhan Unbroken in a less creature deck and more control shell, keeping only the x8 cascade creatures? maybe leaving also the shamans to ramp.
Since he has the super ability to create 4 4 flying dragons I see him both as a finisher and also as a cute draw engine Planewalker? He fits the card advantage style of the deck and his tremendously cool
ps: Anyone thought about playingto armageddon all lands with cascade for free? Maybe trying a hard pack of x3 life from the loam and x4 boom/bust without forces of will? Might be cool?
A LIST OF THE DECK I WILL TEST TOMORROW:
http://www.essentialmagic.com/Decks/View.asp?ID=1040596
3 View Picture Bloodbraid Elf Buy You don't own this card
4 View Picture Deathrite Shaman Buy You don't own this card
4 View Picture Shardless Agent Buy You don't own this card
Spells
4 View Picture Ancestral Vision Buy You don't own this card
1 View Picture Boom Buy You don't own this card
4 View Picture Brainstorm Buy You don't own this card
1 View Picture Bust Buy You don't own this card
4 View Picture Force of Will Buy You don't own this card
1 View Picture Life from the Loam Buy You don't own this card
3 View Picture Lightning Bolt Buy You don't own this card
1 View Picture Misdirection Buy You don't own this card
3 View Picture Punishing Fire Buy You don't own this card
Enchantments
2 View Picture Sylvan Library Buy You don't own this card
Lands
1 View Picture Bayou Buy You don't own this card
1 View Picture Forest Buy You don't own this card
3 View Picture Grove of the Burnwillows Buy You don't own this card
3 View Picture Misty Rainforest Buy You don't own this card
1 View Picture Taiga Buy You don't own this card
2 View Picture Tropical Island Buy You don't own this card
2 View Picture Volcanic Island Buy You don't own this card
4 View Picture Wasteland Buy You don't own this card
4 View Picture Wooded Foothills Buy You don't own this card
1 island
Planeswalkers
3 View Picture Sarkhan Unbroken Buy You don't own this card
About boom/bust: i think it goes well with cascade of course but also with most of the deck cards. Shaman give u one mana even after armageddon effect. You will probably have lands to play due to and visions drawing machine (if cascade them or even if played them in the first turns normally) . Life from the loam helps you get lands back to move faster that your opponent. You have 1 cmanacost spells to deal with small creatures if they are in play after Bust. Pun Fire is also a good mechanic to go on with with 1 grove in play (life loam helps u).
Apart from boom bust (that is just an idea that needs testing) I would like to know what do you think of the whole deck build, with the x3 planes walkers of course (that to me, will work better in a certain way than tarmogoyf). I'm in love with unbroken, sorryso in love that i don't care about his useless third ability in this deck.
Last edited by guybrush3; 11-07-2015 at 07:04 PM.
guybrush3 the formatting of your list makes my eyes bleed
Why play 1 loam if you only have 2 boom // bust ? why not a third boom ?
I found that punishing fire is hard to include in a list that plays gueddon (why not replace them with izzet charm? Kills those manadorks, counter those spells, fixes your draws, not the worst cascade for a counterspell), also removing the grove help a lot with the manabase stability.
Also sarkhan is 5cc , in a deck with gueddon and waste ... and just he's 5cc in legacy, he should win the game now (and he doesn't).
you could switch him with 3 TNN (because it's awesome) or with some mindsculptors (controlling their draws is so good after a gueddon).
If you go the jace route, you might cut a sylvan library.
Also why the misdirection?
keep in mind that boom is a sinkhole if you control a fetch or a waste
Originally Posted by lorddotm
Yeah you are right on most of the things u said. I will try a x3/4 boom maybe and take out the punshfire package. The dragon man costs a lot indeed for boom package. Have u ever played it?
QUESTION 1:
Why instead of jace dont try to use deck fayden planeswalker? He works with cascade and allows you to play with the deck. Plus they will attack him cuz they dont want u to activate his last ab. That is bad considered all the targetting spelle we have... bolts ,charms, boom
...
New list :
3 Bloodbraid Elf core
4 Shardless Agent core
4 Deathrite Shaman (or 4 nobles?)
2 Tarmogoyf killers
2 Nimble Mongoose good synergy with gueddon and waste - killers (or 4 goyfs or 2 tnn)
...
Spells:
2 Izzet charm or Fire//ice or ( read below) 2 stifle
3 Lightning Bolt essential
3 Bust Boom u don't sac if fetching or waste landing , good if anc. recall is suspended
1 Life from the Loam to recover from bust and card advantage
4 Ancestral Vision core
4 Brainstorm core
4 Force of Will or... read below
QUESTION 2:
I want to open a discussion about this x4 cards in this kind of deck: is it worth to play force of will? I know it doesn't cascade and you have one of the strongest cards ever..but... only 4 counters in a deck..does this make sense? Shouldn't we put some x4 permanent removal or some permanent bouncing, maybe?
-I'll rather put x2 maelstrom pulse and x2 abrupt decay to play with shamans black mana.
-If we are going in the land disruption way (even if in this format it really never worked) I actually thought of this card Æther Tradewinds that bounces their lands and your cascade spells... Might work x4 instead of the FotW?( we can stille SB them) Chain of Vapor ,, Turbulent Dreams and Boomerang are also pretty good stuff and they both always cascade.
(if we are going in a x4 bouncing land spells maybe 2 stifle will be nice instead of the charms)
-A list of other stuff I found, most of them r crap or fun:
powder keg or Beast Within or dismember or Bramblecrush or or Wild Swing or Filigree Fracture (to side) or Pure (to side)?
Just an idea to discuss with u all.
...
Lands:
1 Forest
1 island
4 Taiga
2 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
QUESTION 3: (quite stupid)
(would be nice to play a few flagstone of trokair perhaps any lands that helps with the afterboom? or maybe just add some flagstones and 1 or 2 double lands to fetch plain/island plain/mountain plain/forest .however the mana curve doesn't help this. Knights of reliquary in this case x2 ( instead of the mongoose will be nice since u can also use nobles to cast them) . Still don't know if cutting to x2 tarmo is smart or not.
Planeswalkers:
2 Jace, the mind sculptor (best thing after Booming)
or
2 sylvan library
or
2 Jace, the Living Guildpact
QUESTION 4:
PS:has anyone ever considered this?
Last edited by guybrush3; 11-10-2015 at 11:23 AM.
@ sarkhan : never tried him, he cost 5 that's too much for something which isn't auto win.
@ dack : how does he work with cascade ? do you mean that you can cascade into it ? I'd rather have my jace setting nice cascades (and lock them out of lands after a bust). I won't play dack without a way to profit from his +1 (either grave shenanigans or punishing fire).
@ 4 beaters : tarmo is still a great dumb fatty (and playing a 4/5 before a gueddon have a nice nostalgic feeling), I can get the point of goose having shroud but the points in favor of nemesis are : less likely to cascade into (so more likely to flip a recall), solid clock, protects jace , its downside being 3cc is a lot more than 2 after a bust.
@ force : I think it still is a necessity, you have the card advantage to use it, just target the spells that would wreck you
@ 4 Taiga : I don't get your colors repartition, blue is more important than red , isn't it ?
@ splash white : not enough space to splach white and play the bust package, the deck is real tight
@ beck // call : I don't know if you can cast it with fuse when cascading into, if yes is could be interesting, if not it hadn't enough power to be in the deck.
@ 4 beaters
with boom and bust nemesis is quite expensive for an after cast. He is good however i'm not sure its better than a 1cmc like goose. I'll leave him out for now since he doesn't work with the cascade sharpless.
@ beck // call : I don't know if you can cast it with fuse when cascading into, if yes is could be interesting, if not it hadn't enough power to be in the deck.[/QUOTE]
no u can't fuse
quickupdatedlist:
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 noble hierarch
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Nimble Mongoose
2 Fire // Ice
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Bust Boom
1 Life from the Loam
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Forest
1 island
2 Taiga
4 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
Planeswalkers:
1 Jace, the mind sculptor
1 Jace, the Living Guildpact
I'll proxy some cards and test it this week
Last edited by guybrush3; 11-10-2015 at 11:18 AM.
This looks like so much fun. I'll try it at my LGS next week I think (summoning Griselbrand and Emrakul tonight!), if I do I'll let you know how it goes.
playing like this tonight at a local friendly tournament with 6 ppl , if u wonder why of some cards is cuz i don't own jace and force ( I lost my merfolk deck 1 year ago)
creatures
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 noble hierarch
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
spells
4 Izzet charm
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Bust Boom
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylnvan Library
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
1 Forest
1 island
2 Taiga
4 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
Planeswalkers:
1 Jace, the Living Guildpact
sideboard to decide this afternoon
Last edited by guybrush3; 11-18-2015 at 08:23 AM.
Guybrush3, how did it went ?
I have a few questions about your list :
Why the split hierarch / drs ?
How did clique perform ? would you play 4 goyf / 2 clique instead of 3/3 ? (better cascade, no legendary issue)
Did you miss force ?
Why 3 wasteland in an ernhamgueddon deck ?
And what was your sideboard ?
mm it was bad. I played against a BG pox and a Whitegreen with Natural and Eureka . Don't have time right now to write down the details (i played like 5 games per deck) but i can say that boom doesn't work. It's too risky and if you are not controlling the board it's completely useless.
Shaman and Hierarch were good. Different solutions but same results. Very good in different situations.
3/3 clique were very good. Always a super solution to have them in your hand. Yes, i missed force. The sigil wasn't good at all. To control i will go x4 force and x3 clique. best solution i think. x2 jace would be better than1 , sylvan can can stay out of the deck to help cascade into other stuff too.
However i thing that Red is not that good and even if blood braid is red/green this deck will perform much better with BLACK instead of red.
that's all.
So...shardless bug?
@ guybrush , sigil? you mean izzet charm ? How bad was it ?
boom/bust being bad is no surprise, for harmaguedon effects to be playable, you need to pair them with trinisphere (which you can't do here).
if you remove the boom package you've got 4 slots, either for the black splash and decay or for punishing fire.
@ black better than red, yeah it seems that a lot of players think that shardless is the better deck
I like the GUrb version but the manabase is so frail, and I hate losing to waste.
Staying three colors we could explore the punishing fire plan, it goes well with the grinding plan, overwelming them with CA. (and it plays well with izzet charm).
temptative list :
4 shardless
3 bloodbraid elf
4 goyf
4 mana dork (bear with me for a second, will go back to that latter)
2 vendilion clique (could have been nemesis but I like the ambushing and the interaction vs combo and miracle)
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
3 ancestral vison (yeah I slay the sacred cow)
3 punishing fire
3 lightning bolt
4 izzet charm
22 lands, with basics, grove, no more than 2 wasteland if any
So we've got 4 force 4 cham and 2 clique as stack interaction.
10 spot removal, 3 of them recuring should keep the board clear of small critter.
3 ancestral vision ??? WTF ?vision is a bad card to draw, it is just for cascading into. with 7 cascading guys and the 3 punishing fire we have enough CA so we can pass on one of the vision. (also nice interaction between izzet charm and punishing fire
)
So what about that mana dork ?
The options are DRS (but he is unreliable, and beg for a black dual, butchering the manabase).
Noble hierarch (but don't produce red, and we plan to clog the board so no exaltation).
Bird (but it is a plain mana dork, the best to produce mana of any color, with no other upside).
And honored hierarch (What? but he isn't a mana dork !!! yeah but with 10 removal we can ensure he connects on turn 2, and then he becomes a bear that also produce mana thanks to vigilance) I'm testing that and It 's not reliable as a mana dork but when you "flip" it that's the dream
Also if you stay 3 colors you can emulate Lejay and play the meddling mage splash in the board (with the tundra either main or side). (I didn't try that in the 4 colors build , going wit hthe 6 discards sideboard plan )
Temptative sideboard would be :
4 meddling mage
1 tundra
2 pithing needle
2 krosan gripp
1 scavenging ooze
1 grafdigger's cage
1 surgical extraction
1 izzet staticaster
2 forked bolt
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...gue-2016-02-20
Really interesting variant of Waterfalls popped up on the second Legacy League today.
That is interesting. I've tried Guided Passage before and been underwhelmed. I guess cutting Agent solves the 3-drop crowding that made TNN a tough addition before? I wonder what his/her matchups were.
This deck peaked my curiosity as well. I play tested it some and did some minor updates to that list:
-2 Grim Lavamancers
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Domri Rade (it's one of my pet cards!)
-1 Tropical / Volcanic Island
+1 Island / Forest
I didn't like Grim Lavamancer in a deck that's running Tarmogoyf and Deathrite Shaman. I also know that every guided passage would yield a grim lavamancer.
I didn't want to be stone cold dead to Bloodmoon, back to basics, etc: hence the inclusion of basics.
I was coerced to play it at my weekly local. (I didn't even have time to take my playtest cards out). Went 3-0 on the night including a camera match against lands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnQ8rn95PMA
Also squeaked wins by against Burn and Elves. I'll post a link when it shows up on youtube. Regardless, I was impressed by guided passage. The end result is usually the same though: You get +1 Deathrite Shaman, +1 Forest, +1 Ponder.
Going forward, I want to make some tweaks to the SB, but I think this deck has legs. I suspect this deck will just keel over to Storm and Eldrazi though.
Last edited by maCHOOga; 03-09-2016 at 02:47 PM.
I just can't put this deck down
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Baleful Strix
2 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard
4 Envelop
4 Meddling Mage
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Seal of Primordium
1 Scrubland
I took it into a league and got really unlucky vs eldrazi, bricking my 4th land drop for several turns (and had him at 2 with no blockers for a bloodbraid in hand), but I feel the deck is both strong and well positioned for mtgo. Miracles MU feels unloseable.
I've been playing that list from the league except with -1 BBE, +1 Shardless to push the curve down a little and give me another blue card.
The deck has been hilarious to play, especially the first time you cast Guided Passage and your opponent goes "wtf!"
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