UB Tezzeret

[Water_Wizard]

Here's a list that I want to post for discussion. I think that this is the right thread because it runs UB Tezz.


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Swamp
1 Vault of Whispers

4 Baleful Strix
4 Esperzoa
4 Lodestone Golem

4 Grim Monolith
3 Dimir Signet
3 Talisman of Dominance

2 Transmute Artifact
3 Thirst for Knowledge

4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

SIDEBOARD
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
2 Perish
3 Engineered Plague


The idea is to land Esperzoa and bounce Tangle Wire, Baleful Strix, or Grim Monolith. Mox Opal is also a really good bounce target because it is free to replay. When you bounce Tangle Wire, you don't have to tap because the trigger will read 0 counters.

If you don't draw Esperzoa, the deck can play like a mini-MUD, relying on Lodestone and Chalice to lock/deny opponents.

Other considerations include Wasteland and Rishidan Port, which help out with the prison aspect. Jace and Karn are also viable options, usually cutting Lodestone for either. The deck could also support Force of Will, probably cutting Signets and Talismans.

What do you think?

[Madmankevinx]

The esperzoa dies to abrupt decay which makes me nervous and takes away that win condition. I like the Tangle Wire interaction though. Not sure what what I would tweak. Esperzoa can make a fast clock though, and bouncing a grim monolith is cool if you have a way to abuse it. I might just want to cut the Monoliths for some artifact with a nifty comes into play trigger instead. All that mana would be fun with a Thopter/Sword combo though! Lodestone is a house and wins games by himself especially with a chalice on 1! Try it and let us know what happens?

[dillonkbase]

When you bounce Tangle Wire, you don't have to tap because the trigger will read 0 counters.

This is not correct, if when checked tanglewire is no longer in play, you tap targets numbering in the last known count.

112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won’t affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, “Prodigal Sorcerer deals 1 damage to target creature or player”) rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it’s expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists."

Tangle wire is still however taps only 3 of your permanents while onboard versus your opponents 10, so still a good deal.

[Water_Wizard]

This is not correct, if when checked tanglewire is no longer in play, you tap targets numbering in the last known count.

112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won’t affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, “Prodigal Sorcerer deals 1 damage to target creature or player”) rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it’s expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists."

Tangle wire is still however taps only 3 of your permanents while onboard versus your opponents 10, so still a good deal.

True story. Thanks for pointing that out. So, opponent taps 4, you tap 3, one of which is Tangle Wire (effectively tapping 2 cards).

[Undomian]

Here's a list that I want to post for discussion. I think that this is the right thread because it runs UB Tezz.


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Swamp
1 Vault of Whispers

4 Baleful Strix
4 Esperzoa
4 Lodestone Golem

4 Grim Monolith
3 Dimir Signet
3 Talisman of Dominance

2 Transmute Artifact
3 Thirst for Knowledge

4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

SIDEBOARD
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
2 Perish
3 Engineered Plague


The idea is to land Esperzoa and bounce Tangle Wire, Baleful Strix, or Grim Monolith. Mox Opal is also a really good bounce target because it is free to replay. When you bounce Tangle Wire, you don't have to tap because the trigger will read 0 counters.

If you don't draw Esperzoa, the deck can play like a mini-MUD, relying on Lodestone and Chalice to lock/deny opponents.

Other considerations include Wasteland and Rishidan Port, which help out with the prison aspect. Jace and Karn are also viable options, usually cutting Lodestone for either. The deck could also support Force of Will, probably cutting Signets and Talismans.

What do you think?

I used to play a list very similar to this. While it was undoubtedly fun, I ended up moving away from it because, very much like the MUD deck, its really inconsistent. The deck also lacked a way to meaningfully use the 'free' mana given by Monolith after casting the Lodestone Golem sitting in your hand. Really, this was the main issue I had with the deck; if I wanted to abuse the Esperzoa triggers to the max, the deck was more MUD splashed for Esperzoa and seemed to lack the great late game associated with more traditional Tezz list.

If you want to play with this more, though, try Ensnaring Bridge in the maindeck rather than the sideboard. This version of the deck tends to dump its hand even faster than the control version, making bridge pretty sweet. I won a lot of games against Batterskull decks by getting in for 4 every turn with Esperzoa and replaying Bridge so their Batterskull couldn't attack.

[Water_Wizard]

Thanks for pointing that out and thank you for your insight. I think that you are correct, while this deck is fun, it isn't going to perform that well in the current environment.

[Ellomdian]

Also, the reason why I am not playing Chalice of the Void in the maindeck is because you simply diminish your chances of top-8'ing without Brainstorm. You simply need to play Brainstorm to top 8. Chalice also interferes with my artificer's intuition package, which is another important reason for not including it. If you ask yourself, what tool do I need to win a tournament in legacy, chalice of the void or brainstorm, statistically brainstorm simply wins. Therefore, I suggest people start to let go of chalice of the void when playing blue.

What in the... What? I feel like UBTezz is the ANSWER to T8's full of brainstorms. You say that people need to "let go" of a card that has proven in testing and tournament situations to end many legacy games on the spot if it resolves, and then you talk about how it interferes with your AI package? Respectfully, if you want to talk about the deck lacking brainstorms, because everyone plays brainstorms, don't then argue for a card that literally no one other than yourself is playing.

Having said that, our local meta has shifted enough that I am pivoting on the Thropter/Sword Transmute Artifact package - I just wish it made EE better instead of worse. I am still testing and brewing, but I hope to have a solid 75 up soon. Hint for the curious: Solemn is even more sad when he sits on the sidelines :p

[Memnoch]

Looks like Tezz made another solid showing with Zachary Shulz piloting this list; Tezzerator SCG 6.2.13

Pretty much Chris Anderson's list, except for a Phyrexian Metamorph being added to the SB in place of one Damnation.

Glad to see the deck still doing well! Not too crazy about the Tezzerator Monikor though, lol.

[Undomian]

Someone needs to get around to writing a primer for this thing so we can get Established. On a side note, after doing pretty badly in a tournament this past weekend and looking at the results of the latest SCG tournament, I think I might try to dedicate more SB slots to the SnT matchup. Currently, I'm boarding in a Dimir Charm (still a savage beating every time I cast it, I'm in love with this card), 2 Venser, Shaper Savant, and 2 Notion Thief (which isn't great, especially against the new Omniclash deck). I'm probably going to just cut the Thieves from my board entirely at this point, as they seem way too win-more, and replace them with another Venser and perhaps another Dimir Charm for 5 additional hard "counters" for this matchup.

I also feel like I need something more against the Gaddock Teeg decks that keep showing up. Gaddock Teeg and Thalia are nearly as bad as SnT for us, and any sideboard slot I dedicate to this matchup would have to intersect with the cards I board against decks like Elves and Goblins (see: Engineered Plague). As bad as it seems, I'm actually considering Infest. While it leaves up their KotR and Goyfs, we can pretty easily hold those off with either 5/5s or Strixes played post-Infest. These aggressive matchups should be great to begin with, but they seem to be way too disruptive. Perhaps, after these changes, my board would like something like:


1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Dimir Charm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Infest
1 Engineered Explosives


This would give me 3 Dimir Charm across the 75, and 6 ways to kill Gaddock Teeg/Thalia/turn 1 Lackey postboard. It certainly wouldn't cinch the matchup, but it WOULD actually make it winnable. Note that I'm not really considering Perish here, as we have a pretty good representation of red and white creatures in my meta's aggro decks.

Thoughts? Anything better than Infest that would give me a reasonable postboard percentage boost against Elves/Goblins/Zoo/DnT/Zombies?

EDIT: Flusterstorm is also a consideration, but I really like the utility of Dimir Charm and I'm not sure that its better as a result. Flusterstorm has the added bonus of subbing for FoW in matchups like Esper/Shardless, and being basically uncounterable against the SnT decks not running it themselves.

[Water_Wizard]

Virtue's Ruin?

[Memnoch]

Virtue's Ruin?

Yep, I was going to suggest Virtue's Ruin if you were avoiding using perish. Always could go with a number of Engineered Plague into the board as well if you have lot's of tribal aggro in your meta. I like Dimir Charm as well, but have a hard time making room for them. Tough I do like having the creature kill aspect of it and still being able to pitch it to FoW if needed.

Flusterstorm seems like a fine option for additional countermagic. I was running 2 Uba Masks for giggles against SnT for a bit, but wasn't coming up against it very often in my Meta.

[Undomian]

Yep, I was going to suggest Virtue's Ruin if you were avoiding using perish. Always could go with a number of Engineered Plague into the board as well if you have lot's of tribal aggro in your meta. I like Dimir Charm as well, but have a hard time making room for them. Tough I do like having the creature kill aspect of it and still being able to pitch it to FoW if needed.

Flusterstorm seems like a fine option for additional countermagic. I was running 2 Uba Masks for giggles against SnT for a bit, but wasn't coming up against it very often in my Meta.

Yeah, I'm currently playing with 2 Plague in my board. It's obviously boarded in against tribal, but it does stone nothing against many of the other decks I need these 5 slots to go to. Virtue's Ruin is probably the closest bet, and I might try one of those over an Infest as a way to deal with overly large KotRs and perhaps a Progenitus. I'm actually pretty excited to try Infest out, though, as it seems like it'll work wonders for what I need it to do.

[Ellomdian]

...I also feel like I need something more against the Gaddock Teeg decks that keep showing up. Gaddock Teeg and Thalia are nearly as bad as SnT for us, and any sideboard slot I dedicate to this matchup would have to intersect with the cards I board against decks like Elves and Goblins...

If you go back and look at the original Caleb D. list, the board choices are interesting. He knew he was walking into a room full of Thalia/Teeg/Hatebears, and his sideboard choices show it. Seriously, Dread of Night? I love that card!

I feel like you can effectively try to fight against SnT, neo-Maverick, or Everything else, and you get to pick 2. Tezz was naturally stronger in Brainstorm tempo-dependent fields, and it also kicks ANT in the head. I don't feel that the strategy is nearly as strong when the top tables are flooded with Deathblade and SnT.

TL;DR - SnT is still a problem for us. Sneak and Show is not nearly as cold to chalice on 1 as I would like them to be (hello there RUG Delver) and Omni-Tell can brute force prison strategies with Dream Halls.

[Madmankevinx]

Thought I'd report on last nights Syracuse Legacy event. I took Tezz to the finals after 4 rounds of Swiss and a final four round. Round 1 I wen up against Esperblade with deathrites. No Bob's in this list. I couldn't fight off the counter magic that he had available in game 1 and fell quickly behind after a snapcaster and clique started in on me. I did eventually assemble Thopter/sword and it looked like I was about to blow up and take the game, however a top deck EE on 2 quickly wiped my board and the clique and a few spirit tokens ended my game. Game 2 I died to a turn 2 wasteland and no more mana the whole game. 0-1
Round 2 vs T.E.S. all I really need to say here is that chalice on 1 and then another on 0 were basically all it took to hold on long enough for a turn 3 Tezz and making 3 5/5 artifacts was a quick kill both games. 1-1
Round 3 vs reanimator. Again, chalice was excellent on 1 and Tezz did his thing very quickly with a timely FoW as backup. Game 2 a Leyline of the void was all it took to steal the game quickly. 2-1
Round 4 vs. none other than T.E.S. again piloted by the man himself(the decks creator) Bryant Cook.
Game 1 I punted to a terrible mull to 5 and had no plays before storm 10 tendrils did its thing. Game 2 a turn 1 chalice on 1 off an ancient tomb and a turn 2 chalice on 0 followed by Tezz and his 5/5's made quick work of the game. Game 3 I began with Leyline of Sanctity x2 and again a turn 1 chalice on 1 and a a sword Thopter combo started making dudes and gaining life. A couple turns later a chalice on 0 pretty much locked Bryant out of the game but he's a real player and doesn't scoop so it took a Tezzeret and Jace to blow the game up on turn 7 or so. 3-1
Semifinals vs Sneak and show.
Turn 1 chalice on 1 and a FoW on a show and tell was lucky enough on the first pair of turns for me to slap an abyss down effectively taking him off of show and tell. Sword/Thopter quickly spewed many more than 6 1/1's out I case of a sneaky Emrakul, but Jace was the fatesealing master and let my Thopter tokens win. Game 2 back to back FoWs o stop an early show and tell followed by my old buddy: yep! Chalice on 1! Tezz and his 5/5's made game 2 a breeze and I was off to the finals.
Finals. I rematch my round 1 opponent on esperblade and lose to too much counter magic and a flashbacked thoughtseize. Game 2 was long and grindy and The abyss kept him from building up a defense against my 1/1 army for the win. Game 3 an early thoughtseize+surgical extraction on my Tezzeret pretty much crippled me since I had 3 Tezz in my hand and figured I would get one of them to resolve. I was wrong and a turn 4 Jace was not enough to stop his clique + snapcaster wearing a SoFaF.

This deck is the real deal and we need a primer. It belongs in established decks. My sideboard was useless against esperblade, but I feel that I had game against basically anything else I could have faced. Chalice on 1 is ridiculous and really makes the deck. I think a defense grid or two would be good in the sideboard since we can't out counter rug, bug, or blade to stick our bombs. Leylines are a must since we auto lose to burn and hymn to tourach + thoughtseize decks hurt. It is a beast against tendrils too! I hope this- at work- iPhone report was acceptable enough to be interesting! I've already posted my deck list a page back I believe for anyone interested.

[Ellomdian]

If Chris Andersen wins this SCG, I will write a primer this week.

If not, I still might.

Also, watching Ensnaring Bridge beat TinFins was ... enjoyable.

[Undomian]

And Chris takes it down! Bit of a punt by his opponent in G2 of the finals, but an impressive finish nonetheless.

[Madmankevinx]

Congrats Chris, I knew this deck would take down a big tourney soon. Chalice is ridiculous right now.

[phazonmutant]

If Chris Andersen wins this SCG, I will write a primer this week.

If not, I still might.

Also, watching Ensnaring Bridge beat TinFins was ... enjoyable.

Enjoyable? Watching Chris keep awful hands and then actively choose the worst possible course of action 5 turns running was painful and I was rooting for the TinFins player!

To wit:
He kept 2 hands with no turn 1 action. He attacked with Baleful Strix when his opponent wasn't at a multiple of 7 + 1...twice. He declined to rebuy Chalice for 4 turns when Chalice on 1 hardlocks his opponent. When he did rebuy Chalice, he set it on 4. He declined to sacrifice City of Traitors after playing a land, then used it to play Jace the next turn. His Jace fatesealed for 4 turns instead of bouncing Griselbrand. There were also smaller things like g1 sequencing the Jace Brainstorm before Thirst when he had a Sword of the Meek in hand and had already played a land - Thirsting first sees 6 new cards, making it very likely to find another blue card and fairly likely to find another piece of interaction like Chalice or another Force.

I guess that speaks to the deck's power level...

Edit:
I had to cool off for a bit, but I'd like to give a heartfelt congratulations to Chris for winning the event. It's great to see a sweet brew win. Sorry, I just got pretty tilted from seeing so many obvious mistakes and GRVs.

[catmint]

It is an interesting list that goes with my take on the deck to play 4 Chalice main. However I feel the deck really gets in trouble once a teeg hits the board before you can land one of the planeswalkers right?

[Chrandersen]

Enjoyable? Watching Chris keep awful hands and then actively choose the worst possible course of action 5 turns running was painful and I was rooting for the TinFins player!

To wit:
He kept 2 hands with no turn 1 action. He attacked with Baleful Strix when his opponent wasn't at a multiple of 7 + 1...twice. He declined to rebuy Chalice for 4 turns when Chalice on 1 hardlocks his opponent. When he did rebuy Chalice, he set it on 4. He declined to sacrifice City of Traitors after playing a land, then used it to play Jace the next turn. His Jace fatesealed for 4 turns instead of bouncing Griselbrand. There were also smaller things like g1 sequencing the Jace Brainstorm before Thirst when he had a Sword of the Meek in hand and had already played a land - Thirsting first sees 6 new cards, making it very likely to find another blue card and fairly likely to find another piece of interaction like Chalice or another Force.

I guess that speaks to the deck's power level...

Edit:
I had to cool off for a bit, but I'd like to give a heartfelt congratulations to Chris for winning the event. It's great to see a sweet brew win. Sorry, I just got pretty tilted from seeing so many obvious mistakes and GRVs.

other than the strix attacks none of those things are mistakes. thanks for trashing my play though...

chalice on 1 is pretty castable with a chalice on 2 in play.

griselbrand is completely dead with bridge in play and him at 4 life. Fatesealing makes sure he doesnt draw serenity or a bounce spell.

the chalice on 4 wasnt great but the game was over at that point and it did more than chalice on anything else, just by bluffing the "you cant tendrils now"

i missed the city, but i was the one who called it out on myself. They told me I had to keep it in play because i didnt catch it in time, but im sure you knew how that worked being a level 2 judge.



Im not saying i played perfectly, have never played agaisnt tin fins before, so i probably wouldnt have missed the strix thing again, but geez... what a pleasant person you are.