Good call. Tabernacle plays well with this too. This would be particularly good against most tempo and also aggro. Dnt, Elves, Eldrazi stompy, and infect come to mind. Anything that's playable that stalls or offers protection while we build is worth testing at least. I could see this working out really well in certain metas.Originally Posted by Razorking
@theboozecube have you tested this in the past?
Tusk Up
I never thought of it, actually. It seems decent against decks that typically need a fast clock but low permanent count on the board (non-Pyromancer Delver springs to mind). The problem with this card, I think, is that it doesn't do much later once they make enough land drops; they can tap lands for TW and ride any on-board threats. But it's colorless and cheap, so its probably worth trying.
Where I think it might actually be best is against Combo. Stopping them from sculpting their hand effectively is good, although I'm skeptical that it's better than Sphere or 3Ball on this point. But if it's flexible enough to slow down both combo and aggressive decks with the same slot, that might make it worth it too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Enjoy drinking and drafting? Try the booze cube
Follow me on Twitter: @theboozecube
I cut Tops from my Cg build well over a year ago to make room for a full playset of Warping Wail. I haven't really missed it; Crop, Map, and Stirrings already provide us with incredible card selection.
One nice thing about cutting Top is that you can run more basic forests over fetchlands, which makes Krosan Grip much more reliable vs Blood Moon.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Enjoy drinking and drafting? Try the booze cube
Follow me on Twitter: @theboozecube
.
Good points, on the play the card is much stronger against combo, I suppose 3ball suffers same fate. Will be interesting to weigh out the pros and cons.
I tried this once but I don't think I had enough faith in the topdecks and chickened out. I'll give it another run, you make good points. Thanks for your input.
Tusk Up
Hey, I testing tangle wire a bit. In my matchup against aluren, it slowed him enough for me to ulamog his lands and get needles down on cavern harpy. It also helped me against fish. He had to tap his vials down to it due to low land count and few creatures. I assume it kicks DnT in the theeth early. I really want to play this against delver as it can get down for only two mana meaning you can turn 2 it. I really like the card as I can get it off ancient stirrings and with candelabras I can almost entirely ignore it. Lol. I want a second copy in the main and am thinking about trimming either a map/top/ or crop for it idk. Need HALP PLZ. Tangle can also shut down wasteland in the early turns if your opponet plays it waiting for a post. This card is sweet and I really like the From the Vaults art. Having a card that slows storm and reanimator is also really cool. The fact that it can slow Agro and combo (MY WORST MATCHUPS) makes me giddy with excitement. I need to find a place for a second.
Also, can someone explain how tabernacle and tangle wire will interact?? Will my opponent get to pay for tab then tap for tangle? Or do I get to choose what goes first? I think the tab triggers are technically theirs so they can do order???
Here is current list.
User Submitted Deck
Format: Legacy
Apr 19, 2017
Online
Paper
My Price
Creatures (8)
3 Conduit of Ruin 6 1.89
1 Platinum Emperion 8 19.99
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion 8cc 3.95
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 10 15.93
1 Emrakul, the Promised End 13 8.76
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 15 39.29
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 8 69.98
Spells (8)
4 Ancient Stirrings g 23.08
4 Crop Rotation g 5.64
Artifacts (15)
4 Candelabra of Tawnos 1 1,799.96
4 Expedition Map 1 8.24
3 Pithing Needle 1 8.55
3 Sensei's Divining Top 1 53.01
1 Tangle Wire 3 4.98
Lands (27)
1 Bojuka Bog 1.24
4 Cloudpost 3.56
1 Dark Depths 24.00
1 Eye of Ugin 8.48
7 Forest 0.00
1 Glacial Chasm 0.75
4 Glimmerpost 0.68
1 Karakas 41.84
1 Maze of Ith 9.00
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale 1,296.00
1 Thespian's Stage 2.61
4 Vesuva
Regarding opponent's turn, Tabernacle gives the trigger to their creatures, so that goes on stack first, then your Wire triggers would go on top and resolve first. Obviously you stack triggers on your turn.
Looking at your list I'd cut down to 3 CR's personally. Thanks for sharing your results.
Tusk Up
,,how is this better than trinisphere? why play this over tsphere? not seeing it
I just pulled off a +0 into Titan, and it felt great (DnT guy was like) ! Still, I wonder if Nissa is competitive...
Regarding Tangle Wire I can't see any benefits playing it over trini+ensnaring bridge either, though I never went down that path myself...
What deck list you running. A card that highly interested me and played post for years with good success. I'm building one with forces MB. More controlling post which is more my style. The dual mana my only concern. Considered nobles for ramp and colored mana.I just pulled off a +0 into Titan, and it felt great (DnT guy was like
Regarding Tangle Wire I can't see any benefits playing it over trini+ensnaring bridge either, though I never went down that path myself...
Nothing to post yet, I'm using a more or less stock UG list. I've added another blue fetch to try and hit UG more consistently.
Another angle is with FoW mainboard like you mentioned, but on this list, I want to have at least 17-18 blue cards MB, so mana dorks don't fit well in there. Fooled around with stuff like Krosan Wayfarer, Cloud of Faeries, glint-nest, venser, coiling oracle, etc. some creature that I could put into play via Nissa and get something out of it other than a mana dork. Though, I don't think it's worth warping the deck just because of the +0 creature ability.
I've started to work on a Nissa BUG list with Baleful Strix, but I don't know if that has any potential. I dropped all the utility lands and land tutors for FoW, ponder, Nissa, Baleful Strix, and toxic deluge + decay (currently in the board). I played a couple of games, and I can say I had no issues with finding my posts. The mana base seems very stable after dropping chasm, cavern and bojuka. Ponder, brainstorm, top and Nissa find everything you need.
Got ya. TKS have been decent with her. Maybe the only other creature I add in around 2 of. Helps against combo decks, which are our worst match ups. New version I'm building seems way better. One of posts main strengths is mana base so trying to build a control post deck with her. Your dead on tho I see BUG decks using her...time will tell. If I get anything working consistently I'll let everyone know, testing this weekend.
This is where I'm at for my UG build. My main goal is to have it as an option when I expect a meta with high levels of combo (a few LGSs) where my usual Cg build would struggle. Having never played UG before, I'd appreciate some veteran criticism.
Creatures:7
4 Primeval Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells:29
4 Brainstorm
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
2 Flusterstorm
3 Pithing Needle
2 Repeal
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Swan Song
2 Show and Tell
1 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands:24
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Forest
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Tropical Island
Sideboard:15
1 Sundering Titan
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Flusterstorm
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Forcefield
3 Krosan Grip
3 Force of Will
1 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Thespian's Stage
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Enjoy drinking and drafting? Try the booze cube
Follow me on Twitter: @theboozecube
How does UG 12-post win vs aggro loam? That's a matchup I always have trouble with. The angles of attack are too numerous, with chalice blanking wasteland protection, wasteland recursion out the wazoo, and liliana to top it off.
12-post Discord: https://discord.gg/QxYVg3g
In Cg, I play a few Ratchet Bombs in the board. They're great at taking out Chalice. In UG, you also have EE on 0 at the same effective cost.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Enjoy drinking and drafting? Try the booze cube
Follow me on Twitter: @theboozecube
@Booze
I'm not a veteran, but I have been playing UG post for the past two years now. I'll throw in my two cents, and you can decide if you want to spend them:
I never liked all is dust because you're just one mana short of Ugin and they are both equally hard to resolve. I would never move my glacial to the board, maybe if I ran a full FoW playset MB. 2 swan songs require at least three repeals, in my opinion, you don't want to get bird suckered (happened to me on several occasions). I feel that swan is more suitable as an SB card, but I may be wrong. I wouldn't add two 8+ CMC cards to the board, especially since you are low on SnT. I would prefer two EE over Ratchet. If you are in a combo heavy meta, I think you better run trickbind MB. It's such a great card against all sorts of combo decks. Nowadays I always run up to 3-4 8 + / threats in my lists, since they can often clog your hand. Most of the time you win through primetime -> ulamog -> emrakul, you don't need much more than Ulamog, especially if you're running 2x ugin. It seems you have a lot of one-drops and have little protection against chalice; I would consider adding something since you can get hosed by chalice very badly. Trickbind, for example, can get you around chalice (sometimes a single crop rotation is enough for you to win). I don't like to play without Vesuva, preferably I run 2, but neve 0. I guess you'd want to run two islands instead of 2 forests since your go to answer against Magus/moon is usually repeal/SnT or cyclonic if you run it. I'm treating the basic forest exclusively as insurance for being able to cast Kgrip post board. It's the only reason I was reluctant to cut it as Rock did in a couple of his lists. I ran into post board situations where Kgrip was usless. If you don't have a basic forest, you can't destroy blood moon. Furthermore, you have so many blue one-drops that I think you'd want to have blue available to you on T1 as much as possible. If you're in a combo infested meta, I don't think tabernacle should be MB?
@203995014
Aggro Loam is a nasty matchup. Depends on the build, but I guess you want to resolve a SnT as fast as possible. EE is also very useful, yes. Basic lands are great to have in multiples; I never regretted running 2x islands + 1x forest in these matchups. Again, trickbind is a decent MB card to have against loam. I also like crop-bog here. Try to keep fast hands with lots of colored sources. Fetch lands are neat against loam, I often crop rotated for a fetch land against a live knight, so I could resolve a SnT without getting mana screwed.
@MechTactical
Thanks, all great points. I didn't even notice that I forgot Vesuvas.
1) How many S&T are optimal in UG?
2) Is Repeal UG's primary defense vs creatures? The combo-heavy LGSs where I'd play this over Cg still have some creature decks.
3) I like having a split of All Is Dust and Ugin to get around cards like Meddling Mage, Surgical, Needle, Sanctum Prelate, etc.. Plus, Dust answers a handful of key cards that Ugin doesn't (Griselbrand, Progenitus, Omniscience (if they can't kill immediately)).
4) I definitely want hard countermagic main. I don't think I have enough blue to run Forces main. If not Swan Song, what would you recommend?
5) Is Trickbind a maindeck card? If so, how many?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Enjoy drinking and drafting? Try the booze cube
Follow me on Twitter: @theboozecube
1) How many S&T are optimal in UG?
3 to 4 but depends on meta mostly, depends on how fast the format is moving typically. S&T's main power is ramping primetime out or as a great bait spell for countermagic, counter my s&t then hardcast primetime does happen. Helps speed you up in faster paced matches, like getting primetime down fast against DNT or Emporium against Burn for example. Pitches to force late game when you can already hardcast everything. It's a necessary evil
2) Is Repeal UG's primary defense vs creatures? The combo-heavy LGSs where I'd play this over Cg still have some creature decks.
I like 1-2 Cyclonic Rift a lot in UG. Great for emergency situations (you mentioned griselbrand) or stalling opponent, deals with moons/chalice/etc nicely, but more importantly if overloaded just blows opponent to the bermuda triangle. It's also one of the most insane feelings ever to sit there and watch your elves opponent go completely nuts and swing and you just mop their entire board on overload. Noticed you had one candel- trinket mage(2nd Candel) is amazing toolbox kit in one, and puts up a great chump block. Even one good block can save you considering the deck runs you so low till the engine is built. EE is good. I have been liking Moments Peace as a defensive card, safe to targeted discard, recurs, sometimes double value. I love forcefield, I own many and would live inside a actual forcefield if I could- but in general but the card is too easily dealt with due to needle/revoker and decay. Tabernacle is sweet.
3) I like having a split of All Is Dust and Ugin to get around cards like Meddling Mage, Surgical, Needle, Sanctum Prelate, etc.. Plus, Dust answers a handful of key cards that Ugin doesn't (Griselbrand, Progenitus, Omniscience (if they can't kill immediately)).
I've mainly felt All is Dust is a turn too late the times I have played it, just feels really slow in UG. Repeal takes care of a lot of these hate cards, surgical usually handled with countermagic. Kgrip handles Needle also.
4) I definitely want hard countermagic main. I don't think I have enough blue to run Forces main. If not Swan Song, what would you recommend?
I have really liked Negate, you may want to try it out. Swan Song is good, but in the main it can provide added pressure on your clock w/non-combo decks, especially those packing wasteland.
5) Is Trickbind a maindeck card? If so, how many?
This one I think is up to the pilot, I think its more meta dependent. 2-3 seems like a good place to be. Last time I was in Minneapolis playing Legacy (Xmas) there was a lot of Storm/TES, so you may want to run main, but typically I think it's a SB card.
Tusk Up
I am fairly new to playing 12 post. I am struggling to understand the usefulness of repeal. It feels like an unsummon that cantrips, which I have found is often not enough. It only buys me 3-4 damage.
Ugh, they banned Top.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...ent-2017-04-24
So dumb. The ban was clearly Terminus. The end of an era, I suppose.
Some Fear the Dead
Yeah, it's a nightmare. Terminus would have been the right call to weaken Miracles, but taking SDT away weakens many non-blue decks...
Anyways, let's got! Nissa and Scroll Rack, here we go again!
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote