[Deck] 12 Post

[maCHOOga]

Yeah I might try the Moat + Dark Depths again .. for now I'm trying the Swords + Knight

So I ran a similar build to what you posted the other day at an EE5 satelite today. Honestly, I think Dryad arbor is a trap. I had it STPed today, punishing fired, and aggressively FoW your GSZ for zero. I think it lifespan was literally one turn.

I will say it was really sweet when I activated a knight, retrieving a tabernacle against meathooks. He just payed for all the idiots and killed me anyways. My issue with knight today was even with 4x basics and 4x duals, it's really stressing on the mana to sac a color sourced to tutor up a land.

Also, since you're move of a "Maverick-Post" you might be able to support Thalia in SB if you want more combo hate.

I've also been tinkering with Grapple with the Past as well, as a maindeck 2 to 3 of. There is times where it's bananas, but I've already had the scenario where you grapple into a necessary land, accidently send Nulamog to the graveyard, when you need him later down the road. I guess that's just variance.

[Leshrac82]

My build has been using Knight for a while, but there is one important difference: I don't have just Dryad Arbor, i also play Mox Diamond (right now the full 4). That makes it much easier to cast it on turn 2, and still the casting cost is sometimes an issue with Knight - and the reason i'm running only two. I'm not sure how good a list without any Mox Diamonds can support it.

Also, i think Tireless Tracker works really good alongside the Knights - you could just replace one of the Knights with a Tracker to try it, and Tracker doesn't have the color problems.

[moseby]

My build has been using Knight for a while, but there is one important difference: I don't have just Dryad Arbor, i also play Mox Diamond (right now the full 4). That makes it much easier to cast it on turn 2, and still the casting cost is sometimes an issue with Knight - and the reason i'm running only two. I'm not sure how good a list without any Mox Diamonds can support it.

Also, i think Tireless Tracker works really good alongside the Knights - you could just replace one of the Knights with a Tracker to try it, and Tracker doesn't have the color problems.

Hey Leshrac,

Would you mind posting your list?
I would like to give it a look. Thanks

[Leshrac82]

Hey Leshrac,

Would you mind posting your list?
I would like to give it a look. Thanks

I posted it a few pages back, but here it is again, including minor recent changes:

Maindeck (61 cards):


2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Mox Diamond
3 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Grapple with the Past
2 Warping Wail
2 Crucible of Worlds


Sideboard:

1 Reclamation Sage
2 Warping Wail
1 Krosan Grip
1 Golgari Charm
1 Crop Rotation
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Surgical Extraction


There are probably other options to go with the list around the same core.
(For example i'm trying to figure out a good list without the black splash. I had that from the beginning for the Gitrog Monster, but since i cut it, it's almost entirely for sideboard cards. But while Thoughtseize is just one option for combo hate and could be replaced by different cards, Toxic Deluge does a lot of work.)

[TLK]

Anyone seen/tested the MUD/12 Post hybrid? Looks pretty interesting.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13389&d=278519&f=LE

[TTX]

TLK, I have played with a similar deck around six months ago, it suffers from not having Crop Rotation, and late game dead draws. However it can be very explosive, dropping huge threats early. I feel the deck benefits a lot from 1 Staff of Nin and 2 Coercive Portals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr. Froggy]

Haven't had this bad of a sequence with the deck in quite some time... Went 1-3 at my local...

R1: Junk (1-2)
Really close games, was a fun match
R2: Eldrazi Stompy (1-2)
Went better than expected, if you can survive the initial onslaught and you stabilize, it's 50/50; Minna and Denn was a house in the game gaining me 4 life per turn.
R3: Miracles (0-2)
Got completely washed by our best match up, I'm talking complete decimation, but heck it happens
R4: -BYE-

Thoughts:

Veteran Explorer is better than I thought, gives me something to GSZ for in the early game, while providing defence.

TKS is not what I thought it was, its too slow. While the ability is killer and a 4/4 for 4 is really good, he's not what I want in the deck.

Kozilek's Return is a beast of a card, complete blowouts sometimes. Its one of the cards that if its needed in the deck G1, its there for you and if its not, it will gladly get SB'ed out.

Chalice of the Void is a killer VS Gr 12Post.. Since I don't have Repeal, makes games a bit harder.


AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL

Don't play MTG on 3hrs of sleep... Some of my matches went downhill because of obvious misplays on my part... Never felt I couldn't win any of them though, which leads me to believe the deck is a contender.

Fun fact, apparently there were 8 Miracles decks at last weeks tournament, out of 24 people. Didn't even play one.

[maCHOOga]

Haven't had this bad of a sequence with the deck in quite some time... Went 1-3 at my local...

Thoughts:

Veteran Explorer is better than I thought, gives me something to GSZ for in the early game, while providing defense.

So my going joke is veteran explorer text really says:
-1/1 Unblockable, Defender, when this creature dies, skip your next two draw steps, take two extra turns.

[TLK]

Haven't had this bad of a sequence with the deck in quite some time... Went 1-3 at my local...

R1: Junk (1-2)
Really close games, was a fun match
R2: Eldrazi Stompy (1-2)
Went better than expected, if you can survive the initial onslaught and you stabilize, it's 50/50; Minna and Denn was a house in the game gaining me 4 life per turn.
R3: Miracles (0-2)
Got completely washed by our best match up, I'm talking complete decimation, but heck it happens
R4: -BYE-

Thoughts:

Veteran Explorer is better than I thought, gives me something to GSZ for in the early game, while providing defence.

TKS is not what I thought it was, its too slow. While the ability is killer and a 4/4 for 4 is really good, he's not what I want in the deck.

Kozilek's Return is a beast of a card, complete blowouts sometimes. Its one of the cards that if its needed in the deck G1, its there for you and if its not, it will gladly get SB'ed out.

Chalice of the Void is a killer VS Gr 12Post.. Since I don't have Repeal, makes games a bit harder.


AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL

Don't play MTG on 3hrs of sleep... Some of my matches went downhill because of obvious misplays on my part... Never felt I couldn't win any of them though, which leads me to believe the deck is a contender.

Fun fact, apparently there were 8 Miracles decks at last weeks tournament, out of 24 people. Didn't even play one.

What's your current/updated list?

[Mr. Froggy]

What's your current/updated list?

Here it is:


1 Bojuka Bog
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmperpost
1 Karakas
4 Snow-covered Forest
2 Taiga
3 Vesuva
4 Wooded Foothills

1 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
3 Warping Wail
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Veteran Explorer
1 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

[Davek]

Well, despite any version you're running, does anybody have a good plan against U/R delver?

[Mr. Froggy]

Well, despite any version you're running, does anybody have a good plan against U/R delver?

I hold Kozilek's Return (Warping Wail before the flip) while using baiting out FoWs with my Candelabra, and gain a bunch of life once I get to stabilize at around 4-5 life.

[Zotmaster]

Well, despite any version you're running, does anybody have a good plan against U/R delver?

Always get Glacial Chasm off a Primeval Titan trigger so they can't just Price you to death. Maze and Fog effects can hold back idiots in the mean time.

[quantumactivist]

quick tourney report from a weekly. went 2-1 (split last round) but last match loss due to mis-sideboarding. deck felt great just lost some games due to variance.

after some testing, here's the list I've ended up on.

1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest

3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Pithing Needle

4 Brainstorm
2 Trickbind
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Crop Rotation
1 Warping Wail

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Primeval Titan

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Omniscience

4 Show and Tell
1 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam

SB:
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Hydroblast
1 Moment's Peace
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Swan Song
1 Sylvan Library
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Nephalia Academy



I've had maps in the intuition/lftl slot, but I was expecting a lot of chalice decks in the room (and there was). the list is a combination of rocklee's omni-builds with some extra interaction.

Rnd1: White Eldrazi/Hatebears

g1: he plays chalice on 1 with my hand of 3 1drops, snt, titan, 2 lands (vesuva). I copy his ancient tomb with vesuva and snt in primetime. he gets a new Thalia in play, but by this point I'm playing eldrazi.

g2: he mulls to 5, snt -> titan

at this point I look around the room and see like 5 chalice decks, dnt, etc... and am happy about cutting maps.

Rnd2: Lands

g1: early life from the loam allows me to pull out of wastelands. i snt ulamog but he puts in a karakas. game goes for a little while but I'm able to trickbind a crucial thespian's stage to draw a way to get karakas and eventually play a titan. he misplays at one point by sacing a green land for lftl, so I got a little lucky.

g2: he goes forest->exploration->thespian's stage -> mox diamond discarding depths ->lftl, which i respond to with a surgical extraction on the depths, leaving him with no win-cons. he scoops

rnd 3: miracles

we split but play it out. I DEF misboarded as I brought out all my show and tells for interaction. i added boseiju like 5 minutes before the rounds started, and shouldve left them in as I had answers to counters.

g1: I snt in omni with an eldrazi and primetime in hand but he has VENSER in his opener and I get hosed. we have some back and forth but he has timely answers to my threats and has an early mentor. mentor makes this matchup a little worse for us cause they actually have a clock.

g2: long game, ending with a hard-cast titan off a cavern, which gets the eye to cast the emmy. highlight is a trickbind on the miracle trigger of entreat.

g3: i mull to 5, he sticks an uncontested jace and mana-screws/fate-seals me into death.


I still really like the omnis and the intuition package. intuition was a must counter in the miracle/blue matchups, and is very good with omniscience. basically gives you another card that wins off omni. lftl was also great at reseting bad cards from sdt and helping against wastelands, and also getting back fetches for more shuffles. expedition map is probably better if you don't expect a lot of chalice but requires more testing.

the slot I'm not sold on is the warping wail. I've had repeal here which I also don't like. I'm tempted to swap in the spell pierce out of the board, which was very good (countered a jace and blood moon). if we had a good versatile removal spell in our colors I'd be all over it. maybe someone has some suggestions? Ive thought about the song of the dryads plan as a fun-of. I'm very intrigued by running fow..does anyone have experience with it?

Thanks to everyone here on the thread for the advice!

[cin]

Anyone seen/tested the MUD/12 Post hybrid? Looks pretty interesting.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13389&d=278519&f=LE

Hi TLK,

That's me and that's the deck I'm currently piloting =)

Ill post my report here later. =)

[Mr. Froggy]

I think I'd like to try Exploration in the deck, since we play a lot of lands it could maybe speed up the deck a bit.

[Leshrac82]

I think I'd like to try Exploration in the deck, since we play a lot of lands it could maybe speed up the deck a bit.

Afaik that was tried before, and to sum it up: In your opening hand it can be great and speed you up a lot, but it's a dead draw later on. Most 12post lists don't have a way to fill up your hand with lands reasonably fast. If you do try it, you will probably need some form of card advantage engine to get more out of it, like Tireless Tracker.

While i never really tried Exploration in my deck, at some point i did have multiple Oracles in the deck, and going off with Oracle and Tireless Tracker feels great. Overall i went in a different direction, but a deck like that works.



About the cardadvantage engine with Tireless Tracker, currently i'm exploring a different idea for my build trying to go straight GW: Enlightened Tutor.
I don't know if anybody with a white splash has tried that card before, but (just like the Mox Diamonds i'm playing) it has one big problem: It's carddisadvantage. But with 4 Tireless Trackers (and 4 GSZ) i think i might be able to afford that. The upside of Enlightened Tutor is the ability to put some very impactful bullets into the maindeck and even more bullets in low numbers into the sideboard.

Initial testing so far seems fine, so far i have mostly tested this against myself on different Tier 1-2 decks and the first results are promising.

Bullets i'm testing with it: Maindeck: Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, Expedition Map, Courser of Kruphix. (Candelabra and Needle could also work, maybe even Exploration - but the room is limited and i didn't like them so far.) Sideboard: Choke, Ghostly Prison, Ethersworn Canonist, Coercive Portal, Rest in Peace (maybe), Circle of Protection Red (maybe), Song of the Dryads (maybe). (Sphere of Resistance would also work, i started with that and completely destroyed Storm, but i actually needed more help against other decks. There might be even more viable options.)

[mykatdied]

I tried it with circle of protection red out of the board. It was ok, but there wasn't any burn in my meta when I was testing it. So I honestly couldn't tell you if it was worth it. The idea of running "5-8" needles, etc. is nice though

[Hencules]

Afaik that was tried before, and to sum it up: In your opening hand it can be great and speed you up a lot, but it's a dead draw later on. Most 12post lists don't have a way to fill up your hand with lands reasonably fast. If you do try it, you will probably need some form of card advantage engine to get more out of it, like Tireless Tracker.

While i never really tried Exploration in my deck, at some point i did have multiple Oracles in the deck, and going off with Oracle and Tireless Tracker feels great. Overall i went in a different direction, but a deck like that works.



About the cardadvantage engine with Tireless Tracker, currently i'm exploring a different idea for my build trying to go straight GW: Enlightened Tutor.
I don't know if anybody with a white splash has tried that card before, but (just like the Mox Diamonds i'm playing) it has one big problem: It's carddisadvantage. But with 4 Tireless Trackers (and 4 GSZ) i think i might be able to afford that. The upside of Enlightened Tutor is the ability to put some very impactful bullets into the maindeck and even more bullets in low numbers into the sideboard.

Initial testing so far seems fine, so far i have mostly tested this against myself on different Tier 1-2 decks and the first results are promising.

Bullets i'm testing with it: Maindeck: Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, Expedition Map, Courser of Kruphix. (Candelabra and Needle could also work, maybe even Exploration - but the room is limited and i didn't like them so far.) Sideboard: Choke, Ghostly Prison, Ethersworn Canonist, Coercive Portal, Rest in Peace (maybe), Circle of Protection Red (maybe), Song of the Dryads (maybe). (Sphere of Resistance would also work, i started with that and completely destroyed Storm, but i actually needed more help against other decks. There might be even more viable options.)

Would you mind sharing your list? I'd love to help some doing tests and I'm curious if it out performs the version with white.

[Seraphix]

About the cardadvantage engine with Tireless Tracker, currently i'm exploring a different idea for my build trying to go straight GW: Enlightened Tutor.
I don't know if anybody with a white splash has tried that card before, but (just like the Mox Diamonds i'm playing) it has one big problem: It's carddisadvantage. But with 4 Tireless Trackers (and 4 GSZ) i think i might be able to afford that. The upside of Enlightened Tutor is the ability to put some very impactful bullets into the maindeck and even more bullets in low numbers into the sideboard.

Initial testing so far seems fine, so far i have mostly tested this against myself on different Tier 1-2 decks and the first results are promising.

Bullets i'm testing with it: Maindeck: Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, Expedition Map, Courser of Kruphix. (Candelabra and Needle could also work, maybe even Exploration - but the room is limited and i didn't like them so far.) Sideboard: Choke, Ghostly Prison, Ethersworn Canonist, Coercive Portal, Rest in Peace (maybe), Circle of Protection Red (maybe), Song of the Dryads (maybe). (Sphere of Resistance would also work, i started with that and completely destroyed Storm, but i actually needed more help against other decks. There might be even more viable options.)

I've played E-Tutor in my Gw SB before (w/Canonist, RIP, Spheres) and while it looks good in theory I was unimpressed by it. It felt durdly, not to mention my list (and probably many Gw lists) aren't geared to very consistently have access to W on turn 1. I'd rather have "faster", more narrow combo hate like Surgical, Leyline, or Mindbreak Trap, or something like G. Teeg who fits naturally into the GSZ package already played. Never tried it maindeck or with fair matchups in mind, but I'd say your plan merits testing at least.