What are people's thoughts on new emrakul and walking ballista?
I'm debating on running 1 old emrakul, 1 new emrakul and 1 newlamog as my big guys but need experienced players opinions on the best eldrazi line up.
i like that spread of 1 old emrakul/1 new emrakul and 1 newlamog. ill often sideboard out old emrakul against real fast matchups as new emrakul can swing those games and usually costs 9-10.Originally Posted by Valleysdai
additionally, i like oblivion sower in the side to hedge against blood moon.
i haven't played walking ballista yet as i don't own paper copies, but in green or colorlessG builds 1-2 look adequate.
I really love having a new emrakul. It's amazing how many people will scoop to new emrakul being cast as opposed to old emrakul. Once you get hit with that mindslaver once, you generally never want to have to experience it again. I am still on an old kozilek in addition to the pair of emrakul and new ulamog. Old kozilek is just real good, but I've been considering going with a new kozilek as well. Draw effects and more threats seem very good without access to top.
Walking ballista is something that I have yet to try but it's probably correct to try some number of them. It's a great early card to mow down opposing aggression and can be a mana sink as the game progresses.
Apologies for all the posts. The current decklist I'm working towards is:
Land (26)
1x Bojuka Bog
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva
Artifact (12)
2x Amulet of Vigor (currently have a 3rd due to only having 1 candelabra)
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
2x Expedition Map
3x Mirage Mirror
3x Pithing Needle
Instant (11)
3x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation
1x Cyclonic Rift
3x Warping Wail
Sorcery (4)
4x Show and Tell
Creature (7)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Sideboard (15)
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Krosan Grip
2x Noxious Revival
1x Silent Arbiter
1x Splendid Reclamation
3x Stifle
2x Trinisphere
Maybeboard
Land (4)
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Dark Depths
1x Maze of Ith
Artifact (2)
1x Expedition Map
1x Mirage Mirror
Instant (3)
1x Brainstorm
2x moment's peace
Creature (6)
1x Oblivion Sower
1x World Breaker
4x walking ballista
I'm testing out Mirage mirror as a catchall and a way of getting mana quicker. The amulets are there as place holders for candelabras but I may have a 2/2 split due to them not being shut down by Pithing needle.
The sideboard is a mess but I'm not sure how to proceed with it. So any help here would be appreciated.
have you tried Dark depths package with the mirrors?
do you need 4 candle? you could up a land or two, or how about trying new UG nissa? abrupt decay is still well represented and is less chalice-hits.
I had dark depths in the list originally but moved it to the maybe board. I'm debating moving it back to the main and possibly having bog in the side.
Currently from goldfishing I am liking the amulets, so will probably run a 2/2 split with candelabra. I haven't thought about the new Nissa to be honest, she does get around chalice but still can get decayed. I have been thinking of cards like walking ballista in the deck.
I posted this in the other group too. Is this win a mox tourney listed anywhere?Hi everyone.
Despite not having posted here, I have Posted in several tournaments in the past three months including one yesterday where I won a Mox Emerald so it's time for lists and reports.
The list with which I won the Mox is the following C/g build:
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva
7 Forest
2 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas, Tabernacle, Thespian's Stage, Eye of Ugin, Glacial Chasm, Bojuka Bog, Wastes
1 Old Emrakul, New Ulamog, Old Kozilek, New Emrakul
2 Ugin, All is Dust
4 Crop Rotation, Expedition Map, Ancient Stirrings, Candelabra, Warping Wail
3 Pithing Needle
1 Spatial Contortion
SB:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, Surgical Extraction, Ratchet Bomb
1 Silent Arbiter, Pithing Needle, Spatial Contortion, Dark Depths
This is basically the same list I used the last time I put a report here, with -1 TKS and +1 Candelabra and some minor sideboard changes. However, the lists I have been using between now and then have been different and I'll talk about them separately, but for now the main reason for this build was to have more maindeck removal spells to avoid being run over by early threats. This is the reason for the 4 Warping Wails, a choice that I have disparaged in the past.
Round 1: 2-0 vs. Death and Taxes
Not much of note here. I suspect this guy has never played against 12 Post before because he kept bad hands (i.e. no Wastelands or Ports). Warping Wail is good here and I steamroll him. The Promised End draws out some salt.
Sideboarding: -1 Bog, -1 Expedition Map, +1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Krosan Grip
I board out 1 Expedition Map on the draw because it lines up poorly against Revoker and Mindcensor, whereas Krosan Grip can remove equipment, Revokers, and random Null Rods.
Round 2: 0-2 vs. Death and Taxes
I draw a Needle immediately after he Wastelands my Maze and Prelate on 1 locks out my hand, so I get run over. In game 2 he has 2 Revokers and a Needle to shut off my artifacts and draws into three Ports versus my two Cloudposts, and I mess up the opportunity to Grip the Needle on Candelabra that prevents me from casting Ugin. It's likely that it would not have changed the outcome anyway, since I would have been at 7 life vs. a Revoker with a Sword of Fire and Ice afterward.
Sideboarding: same
Round 3: 2-0 vs. Aluren
Yes, that is indeed a 2-0 in a very unfavorable matchup. He stumbles on mana in game 2 while I get a turn 4 Kozilek into turn 5 All is Dust to clear up Aluren and a bunch of creatures. I get to Warping Wail a Ponder on my own turn that got cast by flash-Shardless-Agent-cascade, which prevents him from comboing in response or finding Force of Will. I Eye for Ulamog and clean up.
Sideboarding: -1 Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Chasm, -2 Maze, -1 Kozilek, +3 Krosan Grip, +2 Trinisphere, +1 Sphere of Resistance
I opt to ignore combat and lean on board wipes to clean up random creatures while bringing in cards to stop the combo. He Forces both my Trinispheres and beats down with some dorks. Ulamog takes out lands but he topdecks Aluren, though with no gas. After a fetch and an attack by Ulamog he has 21 cards in library so I Eye for Emrakul, the Promised End to essentially make him take an extra draw step into an empty library, while playing around the possibility of Parasitic Strix being the bottom card from which he could combo out (not enough mana for old Emrakul).
Round 4: 2-0 vs. Jeskai Stoneblade
I dodge the maindeck Blood Moon by one turn, after which I Promise his End by making him Brainstorm/fetch it away, then on my following turn play new Emrakul and eat all his permanents.
Sideboarding: -1 Bog, -2 Warping Wail, +3 Krosan Grip
He doesn't find Blood Moon and Stoneforge -> Batterskull fails to kill me before Eye of Ugin comes online.
ID in round 5 to lock top 8. I am the fifth seed.
Quarterfinals: 2-1 vs. Lands (Jarvis Yu)
I find Pithing Needle fairly early and put it on Wasteland. I don't remember much of the details of this match, but I think I bounce a token and then assemble 3 Cloudposts and a Candelabra with which to cast the Promised End. Usually new Emrakul is bad against Lands, but he draws a Gamble that I use to get his own Bog and wipe his own graveyard which contains a Loam and three Punishing Fires. Winning then became elementary.
Sideboarding: -1 Tabernacle, -1 New Emrakul, -1 Spatial Contortion, -2 Ugin, +2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Pithing Needle, +2 Surgical Extraction
Ratchet Bomb is to answer both Chalice on 1 and Tireless Tracker, and has the advantage of being cheap. All is Dust stays over Ugin because it is cheaper.
I keep a hand with no basics, but with Vesuva, Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, and Surgical. I figure I can bait him into Wastelanding the Cloudpost from which point I can extract his Wastelands and thus buy time to draw relevant cards. This mostly happens, but he finds Ghost Quarter and a Port while it takes me too long to assemble a strong land base to counter them. I end up with an All is Dust and three Warping Wails in hand when I lose to Marit Lage.
In game 3 I grind him down with Bojuka Bogs and find enough Candelabras to fight Ports and Needles for Wasteland and Ghost Quarter. Eventually he gets me down to 6 with three Punishing Fires and blows up my Glacial Chasm with a Wasteland freed up by Krosan Grip. I topdeck Candelabra that allows me to cast old Emrakul to pair with Karakas and win.
Semifinals: 2-1 vs. Topless Miracles (Anuraag Das)
He digs around for a Mentor while I play Cloudposts. Glimmerpost messes up his Mentor math long enough for Ulamog to remove Mentor and gain life courtesy of Swords to Plowshares. Chasm -> Eye -> Emrakul seals the game.
Sideboarding: -1 Bog, -2 Warping Wail, -3 Pithing Needle, +3 Krosan Grip, +2 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Silent Arbiter
He gets me with Blood Moon and has the Force of Will for the desperation All is Dust.
Tabernacle slows his development and Silent Arbiter locks out the monks long enough for Emrakul to close the game.
Finals: 2-1 vs. Death and Taxes
I keep a sketchy hand that has Maze and Candelabra but no untapped mana sources. He Wastelands the Maze before I find a Needle, and I don't find any relevant action in time.
Sideboarding: -1 Bog, -1 Expedition Map, +1 Spatial Contortion, +1 Krosan Grip
I keep a better hand in terms of mana quality but don't find any action. I preemptively play Chasm at 20 life which buys barely enough time for Ugin to clean up the board, Glimmerpost to gain life, and Ulamog to complement Ugin and gain life courtesy of Swords to Plowshares. Eventually I find Eye of Ugin -> Old Emrakul.
I keep a very liquid hand with Wail, Crop Rotation, Forest, Cloudpost, Needle, Ugin, Chasm. He plays a Plains and passes, I play a Forest and pass expecting Thalia. He casts Thalia, I rotate for Cloudpost in response and follow up with Glimmerpost + Needle on the following turn. I play Chasm at a high life total and wait to draw Ugin mana, which of course eventually happens. Ugin clears the board and then pecks away small creatures. Ulamog clears out two Vials to force him to choose equipment or threats to deploy and make Port activations more costly. Ulamog gets Swordsed but Cloudposts enable Emrakul and the Mox is achieved. Since it casts Crop Rotation, Vintage 12 Post is now markedly more reasonable for me.
The store owner (shout-out to The Island Games - Centreville, Virginia) graciously gave out some packs to the top 8. Fittingly, they were Rise of the Eldrazi.
Observations:
1) Number of games where basic Wastes was relevant: 0. Number of hands mulliganed because the basic Wastes wasn't a Forest: 3. This would be a meta call on the prevalence of Magus of the Moon, which going forward I am just going to not care about.
2) 4 Warping Wails is probably still too many. 3 seems correct if you're not concerned about Delver/Pyromancer. I would rather play 2 Wail and 2 Spatial Contortion in the maindeck and neither in the sideboard, at least in a meta that is light on combo.
3) Warping Wail is not that good against Lands.
4) The numbers are otherwise solid, except that a fourth maindeck Pithing Needle could be in order.
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I took the same list to the MTGFirst Time Walk tournament the following day but did not do well because I was somewhat mentally drained from the previous day. Consequently I was not at my best on camera and combined with some terrible matchups the event was unremarkable. The camera match is available here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/173780233?t=01h02m51s.
My comments on the match:
Game 1:
100 - The early phase of Game 1 is all about dancing around the stupid Ghost Quarter that showed up early, which there is no reason to deploy a Cloudpost into until I am sure he will be unable to just Loam it back. I play the Maze here to present a tempting target, since Maze could stop Marit Lage later on. I'm basically waiting for Pithing Needle.
101 - The real choice on this Ancient Stirrings is between Cloudpost and Glimmerpost. I almost go for the former but opt for Glimmerpost to get above 20 life.
1
152 - Yeah, there's really not much reason for me to play the Port-Candelabra subgame in my upkeep or draw step here now that I have 3 mana sources - 1 Port activation to untap 2 Forests at a moment's notice. In postboard games you would do this to play around Krosan Grip on Candelabra, but it is a suboptimal play here.
116 - Now I play the Cloudpost because I have a second one, I've removed two Loams, and I don't have much going on.
1:16:46 - With the blowout achieved and the GQ gone, it's now safe to shift gears and tutor up Eldrazi.
1:17:36 - Since I can't play Eye, search, and cast an Eldrazi here or next turn, I can either copy Cloudpost with this Vesuva and hope to do so next turn, or wipe his graveyard to prevent a Loam from recurring the combo and the GQ. Since copying Cloudpost still leaves me vulnerable to Wasteland or Loam, I decide to play it safe and bog him.
1:18:27 - Finally, a Needle. Now that we're safe from Wasteland I play the Eye anyway.
Sideboarding: -1 Tabernacle, -1 New Emrakul, -1 Spatial Contortion, -2 Ugin, +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Pithing Needle, +2 Surgical Extraction
I board +1 Bomb, +1 Grip if there's a possibility that they have Chalice, since Grips can blow up Explorations or Mox Diamonds if there is no Chalice while Ratchet Bomb just sits there, and you never put Ratchet Bomb on 1.
Game 2:
1:27:25 - The off-screen card is a Stage, again to bait the stupid Ghost Quarter and/or copy a useful Land. This game is shaping up poorly because he has multiple Ports and I have no Candelabra. There's a good case to be made for Bogging during my draw step here to snag the Loam while he's tapped out, but I don't want to sacrifice any of my lands. I probably should have rotated the Wastes since Warping Wail is the only reason to care and it's not that good (despite countering the earlier Gamble). Note that this game would be considerably different if the Wastes were a Forest.
I confess an irrational attraction for the play of copying Ports against Lands, but apart from the first time I tried it it has not worked out and this time is no different. The argument for doing so is that by Porting their Ports you effectively free up one of your lands, so you trade 2 irrelevant mana for 1 green mana or 2 irrelevant mana for a Cloudpost, or maybe you can preempt their combo at an opportune moment. The problem is that they usually have more lands than you and your mana is very constrained until it suddenly isn't. I should have copied a Forest here but it just didn't penetrate the brain fog.
1:30:52 - Since he doesn't have Chalice now, I decide he probably doesn't have it period and take out his Exploration to slow down his combo.
1:32:52 - The decision here to Map -> Forest is I think the single biggest contribution to losing the game, but he has too many ports and I need to hold up the Crop Rotation. I decide that there is too little time to blithely wait for a Needle or Candelabra to show up so I search up the Forest. But, this means I don't have the Map later to search up Cloudpost, or Eye, or Karakas, or even Glacial Chasm.
1:33:44 - I extract his Loams because he taps out of green mana, not because it's the best use of the card. The problem is that if he keeps Loaming while I keep drawing air then I will eventually have no mana to answer Marit Lage. I figure he does not have a good hand so I go after the card that accumulates resources for him. His hand is bad, but I might have been better served by letting him dredge into Dark Depths and extracting that.
1:35:45 - He uses an off-screen port on my Stage here, so I respond by copying Karakas. I play a Cloudpost here so that he might GQ it instead of the Stage-Karakas.
1:40:07 - I lose the game with 2x Warping Wail in hand.
Sideboarding: -1 Grip, +1 Bomb. I don't believe he has Chalice, so I only care about Tireless Tracker.
Game 3:
1:43:54 - True to form, Stirrings never finds Needle in the matchup where it needs to.
1:49:03 - I need him to not Loam + Wasteland so I risk a cycling land and Bog him again.
1:50:30 - I want to bait the first Wasteland in order to extract the other one from his hand, but I don't want to risk the one Cloudpost so I play Maze. He doesn't bite and just plays the other Wasteland. I really need the Wastelands both off the table so I throw down the Cloudpost on my next turn, after which he Wastelands the Maze. I am vexed.
1:54:54 - I'm too fixated on extracting the Wastelands that I immediately do so. While this play is defensible (it allows me to play Cloudposts and Eye without fear and win from there, assuming I don't draw air), I think it would have been better to extract the Dark Depths which would secure the draw and still potentially allow me to win if he topdecks poorly. It turns out that he has the combo in hand anyway and this almost gets me.
1:55:51 - Actually, I used Bojuka bog to pay for Surgical and they missed a Glimmerpost trigger so I am actually at 22 at this point. This situation is also why Warping Wail is mediocre in this matchup.
1:56:50 - Naturally I draw Karakas immediately after copying his. The correct play would have been to turn my Stage into a Port, play Karakas, then pass. He would have to Port my Karakas before making the token, but I could then untap my Port and Port his stage in response forcing him to either pass or make the token immediately, at which point I can bounce it. This line only requires one Candelabra so it works through the Krosan Grip that I know he has.
1:57:43 - I untap my Vesuva-Stage-Karakas in his upkeep so that he must choose between Marit Lage, Krosan Grip, and Porting my Karakas.
1:59:06 - This Needle is on Ghost Quarter because it hasn't shown up yet and I expect to need all my lands. Naturally, he draws Krosan Grip. I suppose I can't complain about fortunate topdecks in this match, though. The match ends in a draw.
Thanks for reading. I'm happy to answer any questions.
I have a question about tournament results. It seems like people have done well and placed with 12 post this year (non stompy / mud variants) but these tournies never get posted on any of the sites. Omega K won a mox with 12 post. Some others here have results at smaller 30 to 50 man tournies. Ive top8d with Cg post in three different 5 and 6 round tournaments but never see this stuff posted.
I live in Korea so sort of expect it because of language barriers, but what about you other guys?
Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk
Last edited by nimkee; 10-31-2017 at 01:40 AM.
As far as I know the Mox tournament doesn't have results posted anywhere. TOs in my area usually just don't bother submitting lists to any sites.
Borrowed an eldrazi post deck for fnm:
Went 2-2
I didn't even know what was in the deck before playing it.
Lost against DnT and Lands. Won against UR delver and Rw sneak attack.
I absolutely loved playing the deck and may have it as a cross over for my current deck and the UG post I'm building.
I met into_play at the D.C. Legacy Open three weeks ago and said then that I would post a report on how I fared there with 12 Post. Until now I kept postponing that report because I kept having another event to go to, but now that is all done so here it is.
C/g at the D.C. Open
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4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva
8 Forest
2 Maze of Ith
1 Cavern of Souls, Eye, Karakas, Stage, Bog, Tabernacle, Chasm (29 lands, 20 produce mana)
1 New Emrakul, Old Emrakul, New Ulamog, Old Kozilek
2 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Ancient Stirrings, Crop Rotation, Expedition Map
3 Candelabra, Warping Wail, Pithing Needle
2 Ugin, 2 All is Dust
SB:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Sphere of Resistance, Trinisphere, Surgical, Ratchet Bomb
1 Spatial Contortion, Dark Depths, Warping Wail, Silent Arbiter
---------------------------------------------------
2 Wins: 2-0 against Grixis Delver, 2-0 against Elves, 2-0 against Esper Mentor
4 Losses: 1-2 against D&T, 0-2 against Grixis Delver, 1-2 against Infect, 1-2 against Esper pile
I wanted to play Mazes and a large suite of one-of lands to combat a diverse field, and since the D.C./Baltimore area is known to have lots of Lands players I expected more Blood Moons than usual as a response, so I played C/g to have more basics. Compared to U/G Show and Tell builds, I like that C/g has slots for lands that help swallow up game 1's that I would otherwise have no business winning. Compared to TheBoozeCube's lists, I cut one Candelabra because I kept getting flooded with useless copies, added a Cavern of Souls to fight countermagic, and added Thought-Knot Seers to get information, clear counterspells, and block. One Warping Wail moved to the sideboard. Ironically I lost against D&T and Grixis Delver largely by not finding lands. Maze + Candelabra holds its weight but eventually gets answered, overwhelmed, or circumvented by Deathrite. Ancient Stirrings finding Vesuva is awkward when there are no lands worth copying.
C/g/u at Quest for Power
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4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva, Tropical Island, Misty Rainforest
2 Maze of Ith
1 Forest, Island, Karakas, Bog, Stage, Chasm, Tabernacle, Eye, Cavern (31 lands, 22 "produce" mana)
1 New Emrakul, Old Emrakul, New Ulamog, Old Kozilek
4 Brainstorm, Crop Rotation, Map
3 Needle, Candelabra
2 Ugin, Warping Wail
1 Sylvan Library, Explore, All is Dust
SB:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Sphere of Resistance, Trinisphere, Surgical, Ratchet Bomb
1 Spatial Contortion, Dark Depths, Warping Wail, Blue Elemental Blast
---------------------------------------------------
2 Wins: 2-0 against Grixis Delver, 2-1 against Lands
3 Losses: 0-2 against Grixis Pyromancer, 0-2 against Infect, 0-2 against Aggro Loam
I like the land base of C/g but Ancient Stirrings seemed unable to support the loads placed on it as a cantrip, so I swapped it for Brainstorms and adjusted the mana base accordingly. I missed Sylvan Library in D.C. but did not want to play two and have the second be a dead draw, so I put Explore in the second spot. Since this build is more than half lands and Brainstorm can easily put multiple lands in hand, Explore made sense and it pulled its weight. Brainstorm was excellent all day, the only strike against it being that my hand gets small quickly so its usefulness in the later game diminishes. Bad matchups were still bad. I would rather play C/g/u than C/g. I continue to like Cavern of Souls, especially with only one creature type to name.
C/g/b at FNM
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4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva, Verdant Catacombs
2 Maze of Ith, Forest, Bayou
1 Swamp, Karakas, Bog, Stage, Chasm, Tabernacle, Eye, Cavern
1 New Emrakul, Old Emrakul, New Ulamog, Old Kozilek
4 Abrupt Decay, Crop Rotation, Map
3 Needle, Candelabra
2 Ugin, Warping Wail, Sylvan Library
1 All is Dust, Explore
SB:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Sphere of Resistance, Trinisphere, Surgical, Ratchet Bomb
Dark Depths, Warping Wail, Sorcerous Spyglass, Thought-Knot Seer
---------------------------------------------------
1 Win: 2-1 against Storm
2 Losses: 1-2 against Lands, 1-2 against D&T
It occurred to me that almost every troublesome permanent dies to Abrupt Decay:
Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Chalice, Null Rod, Knight of the Reliquary, Monastery Mentor, Young Pyromancer, Delver, Deathrite, Liliana, Food Chain, Sanctum Prelate, Eidolon, Sulfuric Vortex, Meddling Mage, Counterbalance, Crucible, Revoker/Needle/Spyglass, Tireless Tracker...
I threw the above list together in a hurry from the previous C/g/u build and forgot the Ancient Stirrings so I don't recommend it. Instead: -1 Explore, -2 Maze, -1 Candelabra, +4 Stirrings. While getting green and black mana is not terribly difficult, doing so while playing a Maze and still developing the Cloudpost base is. Decay permanently handles the creatures that Maze would merely stall.
Getting G/B early would be helped by Golgari Signets. They can't be Wastelanded, they function under Blood Moon and Back to Basics, and they can be cast off of purely colorless mana. I've messed around some with these and they're great when you don't already have G/B and an absolute brick when you do. I would also like to find room for some number of Collective Brutality.
C/g at Baltimore Legacy Classic
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4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva
8 Forest
2 Maze of Ith
1 Cavern of Souls, Eye, Karakas, Stage, Bog, Tabernacle, Chasm
1 New Emrakul, Old Emrakul, New Ulamog, Old Kozilek
1 Endbringer
4 Ancient Stirrings, Crop Rotation, Expedition Map
3 Candelabra, Warping Wail, Pithing Needle
2 Ugin, Sylvan Library
1 All is Dust
SB:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Sphere of Resistance, Trinisphere, Surgical, Ratchet Bomb
1 Spatial Contortion, Dark Depths, Sorcerous Spyglass, Silent Arbiter
---------------------------------------------------
1 Win: 2-0 against Burn
4 Losses: 1-2 against BUG Delver, 1-2 against Junk, 1-2 against Esper Pile with Liliana, 0-2 against MUD
I was impressed with the Sylvan Libraries in C/g/b and decided to squelch my distaste for drawing two copies and try C/g with them. Endbringer is there to control the board while I bridge the gap from 6 mana to ~10 mana, and to draw cards. Obviously these changes did not help.
Collected Observations:
The overall game win percentage is 44%. I keep losing to decks that should not be so problematic (e.g. Esper piles, D&T) and, perhaps as a result, not getting paired against good matchups. The reasons for this are, in descending order of importance:
1) What counts as a good hand for me depends strongly on what my opponent has. However, I have no way to see their hand and few ways to adapt my hand even if I did.
2) It's fairly common to spend multiple cards getting one Cloudpost in play. For example, Stirrings -> Map -> Cloudpost. This is a problem because I quickly end up topdecking and now I'm down one live draw because I had to take the Map. Indeed, many of my wins come from getting ~15 mana in play then topdecking a Map/Stirrings/Crop Rotation for Eye of Ugin while empty-handed. Games where I naturally draw two Cloudposts I almost always win because I can devote the tutors to answering the opponent's cards instead of finding my own.
3) Sideboard hate cards and better mulligan decisions from my opponents. I am surprised at how good Meddling Mage is against me, for example.
4) Weak removal options.
The goal in every game should be to get one colored source, at least two Cloudposts, and one other Locus. The C/g/x builds might be able to do this quickly enough if you use Crop Rotations aggressively, but I think that is usually a bad idea (maybe I'm wrong?). At the moment, U/G builds with Show and Tell and Primeval Titan might be the best bet, or something really off-the-wall.
I will be testing some off-the-wall ideas over the next few months.
Hi k_omega,
Thanks a lot for this extensive post. I am too in the process of brewing a UG list post Top. I usually played S&T + Titan but I want to try something different.
Here's what I've settled on:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Hour of Promise
4 Expedition Map
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Warping Wail
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Krosan Grip
4 Flusterstorm
1 Dark Depths
7 Flex slots
I know 16 colored cards with Ancient Stirrings looks bad but it hasn't been a problem so far, Brainstorm helps a lot to make sure you don't brick. Brainstorm also helps a lot against discard, is great with Fetchlands... Well Brainstorm is Brainstorm !
Something I also wanna test is Impulse, the instant speed might offsets the +1 mana (not to mention the added value against Chalice).
I also tested 4 Ballista + 1 Cavern as it is a very useful tool: creatures + planeswalkers removal as well as an end game threat fetchable with Eye but in the end I found the versatility/mana ratio of Warping Wail better.
Spyglass instead of Needle is a concession for Chalice against whom my deck is pretty weak (Engineered Explosives also helps). I found the info very valuable and try my best to not keep hands that fold against Wasteland so the added 1 mana hasn't be a liability so far...
Finally I've been positively surprised by Hour of Promise, it reminds me a lot of the S&T -> Titan line which wins you the game most of the time.
SB is in flux at the moment and I have yet to test a SB'd game with Dark depths.
All in all this is not a tuned list and I definitely need more testing but stupid job and girlfriend do not let me a lot of time !
Cheers.
I’m attempting to build a hive post. Has anyone else tried this before? The synergy between summoner’s pact, hive mind and your “classic” UG Snt build seems to be solid. Even without the hive mind, summoner’s pact feels strong, as I am often able to summon titan either to cast or SnT and pay for it next turn without difficulty. On the other hand, hive mind can win the game on the spot, and I often opt to snt hive mind instead of titan – depending on the match-up. I have been messing around with all sorts of weird ideas for post after the top ban, but this one got me excited…
I have been interested in making this deck work with Brainstrom and Primeval Titan post-Top ban. I developed this based on Tony Murata’s Worcester list and took it to a small local event a few days ago.
Deck
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promosed End
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Perilous Voyage
4 Pithing Needle
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
4 Show and Tell
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
Sideboard
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
1 Swan Song
1 Mana Maze
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
3 Elephant Grass
Card choices:
To replace Top, I want card selection. Ponder is a good choice and helps with Force of Will post-board, but it seems like the great advantage of Top was the ability to cast it using colorless mana, so I don’t want to go all in on Ponder. Another Map helps here. Needle is just another nice play off of 1 colorless mana.
With no Top and the rules change on the CMC of a flipped delver, Repeal is less appealing. I switched to Perilous Voyage, which is a similar effect but always castable for 2. This has a few advantages. First, it can bounce Chalice on 1. Second, it can bounce fatties out of Reanimator and Gurmag Anglers in the early turns. The scry 2 has been pretty nice in testing and pairs well with Brainstorm if you don’t have a shuffle effect to get rid of bad cards.
I decided to try Emrakul, tPE over Kozilek boT to have a spell with a more immediate affect and something that I can Show and Tell in that is safe from Swords.
Sideboard changes are mostly based on card availability, but I like the idea of Elephant Grass primarily for Grixis Delver. Almost like a Tabernacle, that they can’t wasteland.
Round 1 v. RG Lands
G1: We both mull to 6, with me on the play. He does t1 Exploration, t2 Marit Lage. I EOT send the token on a Perilous Voyage. Soon after I land a Titan and/or Eldrazi and he scoops. Found out later he had 3 Punishing Fires in hand.
G2: We both keep 7. He plays GQ. I Needle GQ and he leaves it unused. He lays down Karakas and Depths, I Vesuva the Karakas. For some reason he starts to get Wasteland with a Crop Rotation but then changes his mind to get Stage and makes Marit Lage. I Karakas the token. He Gambles Loam to the yard and I Surgical it EOT. Hard cast Ulamog gets a concession.
+2 Surgical +2 Krosan, -1 Ugin, -1 EE, -1 Ponder?, -1 Cavern
2-0
Round 2 v. Grixis Delver
G1: I am on 7 to his 6, with him on the play. My first Primeval Titan dies to Dismember plus chump. Almost get there, but when I Show and Tell he has a second Gurmag to my Ulamog leaving him with 2 Gurmags and a DRS to my lone Eldrazi and I am low enough to not be able to survive. A long game.
G2: We both keep 7. I don’t remember too much, but I was able to Crop Rotation EOT for a second Cloudpost to resolve Primeval Titan on turn 4. He triple Probes to find Edict, but it gets me far enough ahead to eventually get to hard casting the Aeons Torn territory and get a scoop after another long game.
G3: We have 5 minutes to finish. I mull to a bad 5 with two uncastable fatties while he keeps 6. Still, EE and Show and Tell almost saves me in turns. I was at 8 and could have cracked EE to kill a single Elemental token but decided to pass. This was a mistake because with this he had lethal on the crack back even after I Show and Tell an Eldrazi. But, it would have only forced the draw and I think he was on track to win.
Each game I would Needle Wasteland early and in retrospect it was always DRS that did a lot of damage. I think I need to consider DRS the worse threat in the dark. Games also tended to go long and provided enough time to recover from a wasteland. It is harder to quantify the incremental damage DRS does over the course of a game, but I kept coming down to spots where I can stabilize with a blocker but if I do, DRS will burn me out before I can turn the corner.
+3 Elephant Grass, forget what I took out, but just shaved a few cards
1-2
Round 3 v. Tezerretater
G1: He gets turn 1 Chalice on 1. I develop my board and eventually EOT Perilous Voyage the Chalice to untap and cast Brainstorm and Crop Rotation. He has his combo by now and is slowly making Thopters. But Brainstorm and Crop Rotation allow me to get Primeval. Primeval ETB lets me hard cast Ulamog, exiling his Ensnaring Bridge. Primeval attack trigger lets me get enough mana to Karakas Ulamog and cast again in the same turn, getting the concession.
G2: He gets an okay board, but I have needle on Thopter Foundry while his Tezzeret goes to work. I am able to find the lands to hard cast Emrakul, tPE for mind slave effect to see that his hand is two more Foundries and a mana rock. I use his Tezzeret to animate my Map, attack his animated Chalice into my Eldrazi, and EOT Surgical the Sword of the Meek in his yard. He takes his extra turn, and I EOT use Eye to get Emrakul, tAT and get the scoop.
+2 Krosan Grip, +2 Surgical Extraction +2 Force of Will, -1 Ponder -1 Map -2 Candle -1 Cavern
2-0
Thoughts:
Overall, Candelabra never seemed too great and never really used it to ramp or mana fix these games. May go down to 1.
Ugin seems like a much better sideboard card than main deck.
I was pretty happy with Perilous Voyage. Always nice to bounce a flipped Delver or Chalice or Marit Lage and get to scry 2. Delver matchup seemed super close and winnable, but about 50/50. The two permanent/graveyard-based combo decks seemed pretty favorable since I have enough disruption to prevent fast combos and if they play it slow my permanent-based combo just seems more powerful.
A few times versus Delver and at first versus Thopter Swords I wished I could Crop Rotate for Tabernacle. I think the Thopter combo is slow enough that it probably isn’t needed and I can eventually win through a bunch of chump blockers but it would be nice for Pyromancers. I like the idea of a single tutorable answer to a wide board. If I load up on EE or Ugin to answer Elementals, they can end up just being bad cards. It would also shine against storm, where I could find it if needed but don’t want otherwise dead sweepers in my hand.
I am not sure about Emrakul, tPE. She was definitely good when cast, but can’t say she was any better than the other big Eldrazis in these games.
Last week when I saw your post, I decided to take it for a spin on my community mtgo league. I managed to 3-0 the event and I will say this is the best feeling build I've seen since the Top Ban. I made some minor updates before the event.
+1 Sylvan Library, -1 Pithing Needle
+1 Cavern, -1 Vesuva
+1 Flusterstrom -1 Swan Song
+1 Tab, -1 Elephant Grass
Matchups were
Round 1 4-Color Control
I narrowly squeaked out game 3, but perilous voyage definitely provided some necessary value/ deathrite shaman tempo. It also resets JTMS if they are trying to jace you out.
Round 2 Burn
This matchup is always scary but Emrakul, tPE shined when they bolted and fireblasted themselves in game 3.
Round 3 Manaless Dredge
Easy 2-0 for me. Between maindeck hate and tabernacle, they can never win.
My plan is to run it back this evening and play in paper tomorrow as well. I may metagame a little online, as burn was 40% of the metagame last week in this league, so I may add a chill in SB.
maCHOOga, glad to hear the deck ran well for you.
I like the idea of cutting the fourth Pithing Needle from the main as in some matches it is pretty dead. I was a little worried about using Sylvan Library because I feel like we need to trade life for turns/land drops and can't often afford to trade it for cards until we are already ahead. Would like to know how this works for you.
I also think Cavern would be my first land to cut, but I was contemplating adding another way to cast Ponder or Elephant Grass on turn 1. Probably another fetchland.+1 Cavern, -1 Vesuva
I think I would do the exact same if I had the Tab and the 3rd Flusterstorm.+1 Flusterstrom -1 Swan Song
+1 Tab, -1 Elephant Grass
I also had a chance to test this matchup and went 2-0. Hiding behind Chasm until you can cast Emrakul, tPE and empty their hand is a nice plan though I ended up winning with Big Emrakul and Karakas these games. Matchup seems okay as long as they can't resolve Price of Progress.Round 2 Burn
This matchup is always scary but Emrakul, tPE shined when they bolted and fireblasted themselves in game 3.
More data from the trenches... 2-1 last night with some megapunts for that loss.
Round 1 Lands. W 2-1
Timely surgicals and bog allowed me to easily win games 2 and 3.
Round 2 4-Color Control W 2-0
Seemed easy after managing my life total. Our deck is very well positioned against the deck.
Round 3 Eldrazi Aggro L 0-2
G1: I kept a slow 6 that was a tropical island + needle as my only source of blue. They went turn 1 on the play, chalice X=1 into dual Mimics.
G2: Another mulligan to six that had brainstorm, primetime, show and tell, cavern, misty and candle. If I can find land #3, there is a high probability of success. I go misty into pass, they cast sorcerous spyglass and I let it resolve, thinking its a trigger that I can respond to. They look at my hand and name the misty rainforest, shutting me off from playing magic.
With the increased blue count, I'm 100% onboard with 1x cavern and +1 random blue fetchland. I've had to mulligan a lot to find color mana, so adding a fetch should help.
As for the sylvan library, it add card selection in a discard heavy metagame. I rarely use it for raw card drawing power unless I'm at greater than 15 life.
* Updated with paper weekly *
Round 1 - Grixis Delver L 1-2
I manage to get game 3 which consists of spell pierce on pithing needle, triple wasteland and a FoW/pitch Daze to my attempt to bounce a Gurmag not to die. Sometimes delver just has everything.
Round 2 - Lands W 2-1
Attempt to survive the 20/20 onslaught Game 1, fail to do so. Ghost quarters over ports makes this match feel harder. The SB picks up the slack and I dismantle the deck. Ironically I have been boarding out one bounce spell because it feels like the worse card.
Round 3 - Food Chain W 2-1
Game 1 I lose because I thought it was 4color leovold, surprise it wasn't.
I reconfigure, cutting the needles because they don't play wasteland. The MVP...mana maze, turns out it says...food chain can't combo.
Current running record is 7-2 with updated UG build.
Last edited by maCHOOga; 12-04-2017 at 04:29 PM.
Managed to borrow cards to complete my UG post deck in time for Legacy fnm last night.
Went 1-2-1
R1: UB Reanimator 2-1
Game 1: I got unmasked T1, then managed to stabilise until he reanimated a tidespout tyrant to bounce my blocker and win.
Game 2: I mulled to 5 and he kept a 0 Lander, I get a cage down, he gets a fetch on turn 6ish and I stifle the trigger, then use new emrakul to rip his hand apart and dump his Bayou in the grave.
Game 3: he mulls to a slow hand and I get dark depths combo down and kill him with Marit.
Side: +2 cages, +2 noxious revival +2 warping wail -2 prime time - 4 other things
R2: paired down storm 0-2
Game 1: I keep a slow hand and they manage to kill me after building up their mana
Game 2: I keep a hand with stifle then draw 2 warping wails, she Ad Nauseum's on my upkeep and goes to 2 (got 2 warping wail in hand). I didn't keep track of what she hit with ad naus and that cost me, she tutors for a cabal ritual and tries to therapy me, which I wail, she tries again, I think for a while and allow it, she names stifle, she dark petitions which I wail, I draw a land and she has past in flames.
Side: +2 wails +2 cages +2 noxious revival -6 things
Game 3: miracles 1-1
Game 1: goes slowly and I new emrakul them twice then they concede to new and old emrakul because I have a mirage mirror out and they have a karakas.
Game 2: they t2 snap caster mage and then t3 back to basics, I build up my mana Base just passing turn after turn until I can cast ulamog. I exile back to basics and karakas, I should have exiled the mentor instead of Karakas, they play jack and bounce newlamog. On T2 of 5 after time.
Side: +2 noxious revival +1 something else -3 things
R4: white stax 1-2
Game 1: suppression field, crucible, armagedon are too much.
Game 2: I get prime time out, build up enough mana to eye of ugin under 2 suppression fields and cast ulamog exiling ensnaring bridge and ghostly prison.
Game 3: I manage to overcome 2 armagedon effects but the 3rd does me in and I lose to new thalia, I crop for a karakas but he spyglass it.
Side: +1 oblivion sower +1 world breaker + 2 grips +2 noxious revival -2 prime time -1 expedition map -1 tabernacle -1 dark depths -1 glacial chasm
Side 2: +2 wails -2 prime time.
Conclusion: I absolutely love the deck, I made some game costing errors but first time with the deck and will keep practising.
Welcome onboard. It's good to see ppl still joining despite the fact UG took a huge hit with the unwarranted sdt banning. Please post your deck list. I see you are running some SB cards I haven't tried yet.
Thanks for the welcome. It would be my pleasure to show the decklist, the sideboard could do with some work but it's what I have:
Creatures
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 emrakul, the promised end
1 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
4 primeval titan
Artifacts
1 candelabra of tawnos
3 amulet of vigor
3 pithing needle
2 expedition map
2 mirage mirror
Sorceries
3 show and tell
1 splendid reclamation
Instants
4 crop rotation
4 brainstorm
1 cyclonic rift
3 stifle
Lands
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 karakas
2 vesuva
4 tropical island
4 misty rainforest
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
1 glacial chasm
1 dark depths
1 thespian stage
1 island
1 forest
1 bojuka bog
1 eye of ugin
Sideboard
2 grafdigger's cage
2 warping wail
1 cavern of souls
2 krosan grip
1 world breaker
1 oblivion sower
2 noxious revival
1 trinisphere
1 moment's peace
2 fog
Any assistance in improving the sideboard is gratefully appreciated, I am tempted to try a molten vortex (the 1 mana version) and a taiga to fight early creatures and blood moon effects.
Update: I'm going to add an Endbringer but I need to work out what to cut (probably oblivion sower).
Last edited by Valleysdai; 12-07-2017 at 12:46 PM.
Grixis Delver has been a struggle. By the time I start to stabilize, I am usually dead next turn.
I agree with boarding out a bounce spell against Lands as it is good against Lage but otherwise not great and we still have many other ways to stop the token. Nice one versus Food Chain, I hadn't even thought of that matchup with Mana Maze.
One idea I want to test going forward is Sandwurm Convergence in the Ugin Slot. I like that you can Show and Tell it in and think it might help the Grixis Delver matchup because it let's us clog up the ground while also stopping air attacks and Grixis struggles to answer enchantments. It also sounds quite nice versus Reanimator, Sneak and Show, and Marit Lage decks. I have tested it once against Miracles. It won the game, but didn't particularly shine in this matchup. I did find the double green hard to get, making me cast it a few turns later than I could have cast an Ugin.
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