Banzai! Still no Top though…Originally Posted by caw_86
So what does this mean for us? Could we potentially be viable again?
I managed to squeeze in a couple of games yesterday with the stock Rock’s Wish build (minor changes). My matchups were sneak n show and double RUG (narrow loss to sneak, won both RUG matchups). I don't particularly appreciate seeing stifle as much as any post player; despite this, it was so good to play against RUG again. The card is much less problematic than probe+cabal or DRS into hymn into delver+waste into whatever… The matchup feels much better than grixis.
Wish got better without therapy. What else? We could try grapple again. Chasm got better? Tabernacle probably got better? Probably crop got better and is worth 4x slot in the main (expecting more reanimator and dredge?). Snappy gets better, although he wasn’t a staple in our deck, I like him in U oriented builds. Stuff like Ramunap/Rallier got a lot better for any GSZ/Maveric flavored builds. If GY strategies get more gas, I guess that relic is still a valid MD choice, despite it was there mainly as a DRS hoser? I guess that needle is a four off in the new waste/rishadan meta? Do we really go overboard and run extra spyglasses alongside needles?? What happens to decay, moon, and chalice in this new environment? Do we see a rise of miracles again? That would be a boon for us. Which cards do we use to replace top in the new meta: mirri, wish, ponder, grapple, library, …? Let’s get crackin’ fellas!
Hopefully miracles drops back to basica from its list
I played a few games on XMage over the past few days with a C/g list to see what people were trying in the post-DRS/probe world. I played against: Dredge (easy win), U/R control (easy win), Infect (distant loss), Storm (close loss), D&T (easy win), RUG Delver (distant loss), and Lands (close loss). None of these outcomes surprise me, but I think the overall metagame is now worse for the C/g builds than before for several reasons:
- Nimble Mongoose and Vines of Vastwood are both strong against Maze of Ith which is the main form of creature interaction. RUG also has excellent options for artifact removal and C/g leans heavily on its artifacts. It would also be bad if Goblins sees more play, since they have artifact removal and can easily go wide around Mazes.
- C/g has been the worst 12 Post variant against Lands in my experience and I expect people who put down Lands to return to it.
- Storm seems to have replaced Probes with Thoughtseizes which is bad since the main interaction (spheres) has to sit in hand for a turn or two before being deployed, assuming you keep an opening hand based on having a sphere in it.
It has been nice not to die to random DRS activations. Moment's Peace gets much better now that DRS won't exile it and it combats some of the decks that are likely to become popular. Ideally I would play a G/W Titan build with Swords to Plowshares in the maindeck and Rest in Peace + Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard, but I think a list like that would need a Top-like effect to function. Maybe Mirri's Guile and Sylvan Library can fill that role, though I am skeptical of Library in a Leovold world. A 3-1 split seems reasonable.
Elvish Rejuvenator from the new core set could have potential. I tested two of them in the flex slots of C/g and it helps to speed through the midgame. If you wanted to play three I think you would need an 8th Forest so that you can avoid using Maps for Forests.
GW wise I’m brewing with GSZ package + renegade + wayfarer ATM. I keep getting these explosive starts via wayfarer. I’m even considering adding a copy of wasteland… I can’t speak whether such a built could ever be competitive, but it’s fun as hell. Hehe if nothing else it’s at least fun to play legacy again not having to play against endless DRS hordes.
I’m not sold on Rejuvenator he feels clunky at 3, maybe if he was at one CMC.
Are we back boys?
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/S...lphia_PA_US/1/
3 big colorless eldrazi and 1 ug list. Seems good.
Hi guys,
Summertime makes playtesting not so easy (gotta enjoy the sun and those pesky friends keeping you away from Magic ! Damn !). Here is what I want to test next time I can:
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Archon of Valor's Reach
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Walking Ballista
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
4 Ponder
4 Repeal
4 Show And Tell
3 Candelabra Of Tawnos
1 Flex Slot
SB:
3 Flusterstorm
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Krosan Grip
1 Archon of Valor's Reach
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Surgical Extraction
Has anybody tried Archon of Valor's Reach ? Also with DRS out of the picture, Riftstone Portal can be a solid option (provided enough ways to put it in the graveyard) to have access to the Archon and sideboard cards...
Any thoughts ?
Last edited by Monkey_Island; 08-06-2018 at 09:28 AM.
Does anyone play standstill?
I was running a U/G list with some Repeals and Perilous Voyage to stall and then cast a Standstill until I draw enough cards/drop enough lands to cast a big boy or a show and tell to end it. But I don't think its really gaining me anything. If the opponent gets ahead on board by even 1 creature, standstill is pointless...
Now that DRS is gone, I'm thinking I run 2 Moment's Peace in the main and 2 in the board as my stalling component.
Thoughts?
Anyone spent significant time on the UG lists that seen to have been popping up lately? It seems pretty much right up my alley but I want to get someone to comer in who's played them a bit before I invest on mtgo
There was a U/G list that took 10th at the SCG Classic in Dallas this past weekend. Glad to see it.
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/123201
I'll repost this here b/c no one seems keen on giving any insight into the new "core." based on the ug ballista list by Chris Rowland.
So the core is 4x ballista 4x repeal; that there is our new "engine." instead of top, we got direct damage + draw. Not only does repeal save yo ballista from removal it resets it and draws a card for U. This makes an early ballista more reliable b/c u can reset it later (remember to deal damage if it has more than one counter). Don't hesitate to trade an early ballista for an unflipped delver. Of course, you board out this engine against most combo decks but its f amazing against anything fair... the list below is just an experiment testing this engine in "MUC." it should have at least 2-3 candles but I run one cuz I own only one... the list has a lot of flex/test cards and needs more chalice hate. sry about the xmage formatting
1 [ATQ:43] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [ZEN:220] Misty Rainforest
4 [MMQ:61] Brainstorm
1 [MM3:50] Snapcaster Mage
1 [ZEN:67] Spell Pierce
4 [FNMP:120] Cloudpost
1 [LEG:303] Karakas
1 [FRF:1] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [TSP:281] Vesuva
1 [RTR:35] Cyclonic Rift
2 [ALA:218] Relic of Progenitus
4 [AER:181] Walking Ballista
4 [GPT:32] Repeal
1 [KTK:239] Polluted Delta
1 [ROE:4] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [WWK:136] Eye of Ugin
1 [C16:102] Trinket Mage
1 [EMN:6] Emrakul, the Promised End
1 [OGW:4] Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 [MPS:44] Pithing Needle
1 [MM2:67] Vendilion Clique
6 [ZEN:234] Island
4 [SOM:227] Glimmerpost
1 [BFZ:15] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M10:68] Ponder
4 [MM2:213] Expedition Map
1 [MM2:1] All Is Dust
SB: 4 [ALL:28] Force of Will
SB: 1 [MPS:44] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [NPH:74] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [CMD:46] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [CMD:267] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [LEB:50] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [WWK:31] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 1 [THS:65] Swan Song
P.s. Remeber you can sac ballista in response to bridge or play it for 0 into a chancellor making way for other spells. It's also excellent against those pesky walkers.
Very interesting list. I have been willing to go mono U for a while but never settled on a list that I liked. In my attempts however I always liked Stifle, did you have a chance to test it ?
The problem, as always with post, is the lack of space for all the cards one would want in the 75. I’m mainly worried about needle – relic. Relic is the “only” MB GY hate available in mono U, and needle is well just great in any post. I’ve added two caverns (don’t know why I didn’t include at least one copy earlier). I didn’t try stifle, but I tried spell pierce and I think both of those don’t fit well in post. You want to drop cloud posts and play your cantrips, bounce spells, and artifacts which doesn’t leave much room to keep U mana open for stifle/pierce and the likes. It’s also very common that you have to tap out early to play your maps, candles, and sh**, which means you don’t have mana open to use yo disruption in the early phases when it matters most. Not to mention the space restrictions (instead I’d run more relics, needles, and stuff before adding stifle). Currently, I’ve done away with some of the test cards and am running a more streamlined build with three candles (although I couldn’t play this list as I own only one) 2x cyclonic right and 2x wipe away. The list may be heavy on bounce spells, but I had a lousy record against chalice and wanted to have at least 4x answers for it MB. Apart from EE, I don’t know what else could be included in mono U as chalice hate? I’ve also considered blink of an eye and perilous voyage (card draw/card selection), but somehow I always miss rift if I don’t have at least two copies MB in monoU. Rift is just such a fantastic card that can answer things that other sh** can’t (TNN and the likes) a mini all is dust. Bouncing stuff feels right in monoU; one only needs to stall the game long enough for the inevitable win. Repealing a flipped delver is as good as it used to be. Any card suggestions are much appreciated, what else could play well in monoU?
So I finally picked up Candelabras recently and someone said to me last night "now you can play that dumb cloudpost deck!" so I thought I'd come here and see how things were going. I know this is quite a niche archetype - is anyone actively playing it right now and would consider sharing some of their experiences in the post-ban metagame?
I'm now testing couple of dekcs and still my main flagship would be this cloudpost deck which seems to me pretty solid right now just last week finished 3:1 and 4:0 on local events last matchups was zoo 2:0,eldrazi2:1,food chain 2:0,and mentor miracle 2:0 .
Most tough matchups are still infect decks,aluren,blood moon planeswalkers and aggro loam but happy they don't appear so often on my tournaments . i'm very satisfied with walking ballista one of the best card in the moment :)) .maybe i'll cut one relic for another beb.
here is my current list
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4x Primeval Titan
1x Walking Ballista
4x Brainstorm
3x Crop Rotation
3x Flusterstorm
1x Impulse
2x Trickbind
3x Ponder
3x Show and Tell
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Expedition Map
2x Pithing Needle
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva
Side:
1x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Carpet of Flowers
1x Crop Rotation
3x Krosan Grip
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Walking Ballista
and wishing you guys good luck for Gp Richmond ;)
What are everyone's opinions on Broken Bond? It seems like it would be excellent against Stompy decks but worse than Krosan Grip against decks with counterspells. On the other hand, the blue decks are playing Back to Basics which can be fought with Candelabra instead of requiring a Naturalize effect so maybe Grips are less necessary now. Normally I play 3 Grips in the sideboard and I'd like to do a 3-1 split but 4 slots for that effect is a lot. I'm looking for confirmation that Broken Bond is as good as I think it is, and what kind of splits people have had success with.
For reference, I'm using a C/g build and the relevant decks in my meta are Miracles/Grixis/Stoneblade, Eldrazi, Aggro Loam, and Red Stompy in roughly a 5-2-1-1 ratio.
Brah, it’s not worth the effort. Soon you’ll realize that sorcery speed is a big issue. Furthermore, split second is still a key factor against sneak/omni and other combo. You can even get rid of opponents ballista and not take damage for example. Against b2b splitsecond is imperative b/c of counterspells. I tried bond but cut them. It’s also situational you have to have a land in hand. If y’all wanna play exploreation play k wayfarer...
You're missing the point. I'm planning to keep Krosan Grips for blue decks and basically only considering Broken Bond for decks that play early Chalices or Blood Moons. In those situations the sorcery speed is mostly irrelevant but costing one less mana is valuable, and the additional land drop is huge. C/g is almost half land anyway and the early turns are when you're most likely to have an extra land in hand. This is why I think it's good, and I'm asking if people who have played the card have liked it in these matchups.
So last Legacy Monthly I 3-1 with this:
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Walking Ballista
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
4 Ponder
4 Repeal
4 Show And Tell
3 Candelabra Of Tawnos
SB:
4 Flusterstorm
2 Echoing Truth
3 Krosan Grip
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Surgical Extraction
Random thoughts:
- I liked 26 lands with 23 mana sources. Really impressed with Thespian's Stage at dodging unbasic hate plus acting as extra ramp and occasionally "saving" a utility land. Very solid card overall.
- Show and Tell -> Primeval Titan is a strong play in Leagcy at the moment.
- Multiple Back to Basics main deck out of Miracles deck suck. This is not an easy match-up as it used to be.
- I played against Steel Stompy and felt surprisingly strong against them.
- Would definitely run this list again but with replacing Platinum Emperion for Venser, Shaper Savant.
I see someone placed 6th with Cg at a recent classic.
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/123970
I think I know who that is but am not 100%. Any chance of getting a quick report or even a run down of the matches you faced?
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