SnT is definitely plan B, or C - most of the time. However don't forget Burn, Affinity, Junk, lands, or Elves - where you absolutely need it. I've noticed most people fumbling with the deck or being unsatisfied with SnT are using SnT as plan A. Which sounds about right to me because SnT is a pretty shitty plan A.
I think SnT brings a tension into games that really makes the opponents life miserable if you time it properly. EOT crop rotation into their grip of 4 or 5, having them pounce on the opportunity to "2 for 1" you with a counter, only for you to untap and SnT-Titan. Lines like that. Keeping them honest to a lurking 3 mana blowout will leave you happily resolving what you really want - tops, crops, and brainstorm.
On the other hand, just running it out is actually a very strong tempo play on our part. It's like having two titans to cast. With a blue on the rise, a cavern to force the Titan is a nice way to top it off, if your opponent was able to manage the counter dance up to that point.
I still think Titania and Depths are superfluous. I actually think they might end up being their own archetype :-O. Also, Im not playing any delve cards, they don't fit well for my play style with the deck. I am jealous of all the new toys the rest of legacy has, but I'm still more or less on this (comfortably, too):
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Forest
2 Island
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Bajouka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Trinket Mage
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Repeal
3 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Townos
2 Moments Peace
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Show and Tell
1 Pithing Needle
SB
4 Force of Will
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Swan Song
3 Flusterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Krosan Grip
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
Hi,thanks for sharing this threads with this great deck i really enjoy it !! i mostly playing this build.many times won my local (Prague) last three months and last Milan's Ovino 6-2-1 (i lost with high tide and sadly with goblins draw with landstill) . tested cruise but without chance to win with fast decks and wasteland is still the worst i have maybe better luck with needle then stifles so i think this decks needs more significants cards then cycle to card advantage..
Emrakul of the eons 1
Kozilek butcher of truth 1
Primeval Titan 4
Brainstorm 4
Crop rotation 3
Repeal 4
Moment's peace 1
Show and tell 3
Candelabra of Tawnos 2
Engineered explosives 2
Expedition map 3
Pithing needle 3
Sensei's the divining top 4
Forest 1
Island 1
Bojuka Bog 1
Cavern of Souls 1
Eye of Ugin 1
Glacial Chasm 1
Glimmerpost 4
Cloudpost 4
Misty Rainforest 4
Karakas 1
Tropical Island 4
Vesuva 2
side :
Blue elemental Blast 3
Fow 4
Flusterstorm 2
Gut shot 2 (still changing this slot )revoker,ee,llawan,chalice,moment's peace
Krosan Grip 2
Swan song 2
Before then meta changed to ur delvers i played three Baloths instead one beb one swan s. and one gut s. long time didn't see liliana ..
Tabernacle could be fine but already sold it 2 years ago now is too late :)
Adding onto this, she increases the threat density of the deck and can also double as a straight-up wincon by herself. Last week I ripped off a win with her after my opponent used Wasteland and Surgical Extraction on my Cloudpost turn 1. That's obviously not a situation that would come up a lot, but the power level is there. She does good things, and barring a Stifle, there's pretty much nothing your opponent can do to stop you from getting at least one 5/3 if you really want to.Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Tim said it well and Rock has said it throughout this thread. It's not your Plan A, but it's still a hell of a powerful card. As I've personally said, Show and Tell is the easiest bluff in Magic. Unless your opponent has a card they specifically boarded in to deal with it, if your opponent has a counterspell, you'll see it when you cast SnT. As Tim said, it's a great tempo play in that it can essentially give you two Primeval Titan to cast. You can use Crop Rotation to force out a counter to get an SnT down, or you can use SnT as the bait to resolve a much-needed Crop Rotation. There are plenty of possibilities for the creative.
I find it to be way too cute in U/G and I've cut it without regret. I'd post the list I've been testing but I had literally the worst luck I've ever had in Legacy in my past weekly and so I didn't really get to test...but to summarize: beat up on Miracles, then two mulligans to 5 against Infect, two mulligans to 5 against U/R Delver, a mulligan to 5 and a mulligan to 4 against Jund, with the icing on the cake being my first Sensei's Divining Top activation seeing 3 Primeval Titan, and after drawing two Titans, my next activation found Titan-Top-Titan.Also how have people been finding depths/stage combo in the deck?
Seriously. I can't even make that crap up.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
Ouch! This is why you just run treasure cruise... DRAW ALL THE TITANS AND KEEP DRAWING TIL YOU HAVE WHAT YOU NEED. :-P
No but seriously. I keep the dark depths combo in cause it straight up wins matches against elves, infect, goblins, etc. Much the same as snt does; but I'm not good enough to play without it yet. I just can't play tight enough. I'll get there one day. But really it's only saccing 1 card slot; the thespians stage can be thought of as a Vesuva and it's relevance of becoming a Cloudpost eot has been important more than a handful of times.
Together, likely, but on their own I think there's enough room.
I think Titania doesn't hurt 12-Post but I just haven't gotten around to testing it (I really should). Depths is great in the long game and I find it's superfluous in the same way Kozilek and/or Ulamog is superfluous: anything beyond Emrakul is really not entirely necessary, but it's nice and can still pull wins out on it's own.
Also, regarding Titania in her own Archetype, someone in the MUD thread talked about using Orcish Lumberjack as an accelerator to drop her as soon as Turn 2 (with potential Cavern of Souls back-up), but I haven't heard much about it since and am surprised Lands.dec hasn't been testing her.
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
Dies to Doom blade. /thread
My 12 Post Videos - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...Q65OWRL5my7utn
She costs 5. I'd rather have Worm Harvest or Smokestack. +and Titan impacts the game so much more in more mu sans Loam.
She seems better in monoG Stompy/Chalice decks.
I played against a nic fit deck tonight that used titania, restoration angel and birthing pod to return wasteland several times from the graveyard and wasted all but one of my cloudposts. It was a usually easy match drawn out into an asinine finish. He brought himself down to 6 life and with 3 titans in play I attacked. He had enough tokens in play to block everything, but I repealed a single voice of resurgence token and that was the end.
Just won a Saturday Tournament with this list:
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [RLM] Glacial Chasm
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [US] Show and Tell
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [KTK] Treasure Cruise
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [AL] Force of Will
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 1 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 1 [C14] Titania, Protector of Argoth
SB: 4 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [C13] Bane of Progress
SB: 3 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [IA] Zuran Orb
SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
Back from GP Strasbourg, slightly disappointing 6-6 across two 6 round events. Losing 11 out of 12 die rolls, picking the wrong side of a percentage play a couple too many times and just fizzling out a bit too much makes it feel like I got the worse end of variance this weekend and most of the matches I lost were 2-1 and felt rather winnable.
Short notes: Cyclonic Rift is the real deal and was fantastic almost all the time. All the sideboard counterspells were very underwhelming, Brainstorm did something useful exactly once. Tabernacle and Elephant Grass did some great combo work, Glacial Chasm was the usual "Guess I'll try to hang on a bit more oh look I still lost" that got me nowhere in the games I even decided to board it in.
Played some really great games though, I'll write up a more detailed report after catching some sleep tomorrow.
I've been working on a green shell for chalice and originally played this list with dark depths (which i'm still testing). However, it occurred to me that the 12 post base (lands emrakul ulamog) would fit right in dark depth's spot so i gutted depths and added 12 post. Played a few games with it. Beat UR delver fairly easily which i imagine is a big issue for the traditional lists. Beat Patriot under a t3 blood moon. beat ant 2-0. The deck has some pretty nifty interactions and despite its clunky look its very consistent. Mainly i wanted to post it here for y'all because it's got game against combo g1 and doesn't have to sacrifice anything to do so. Only thing i'd really consider adding is courser and maybe titania... but for 5 mana i'd rather just increase the prime titan count.
Creatures - 11
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Primeval Titan
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
spells - 19
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Natural Order
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Crop Rotation
2 Sylvan Library
2 Mox Diamond
Lands - 30
2 Dryad Arbor
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Karakas
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
SB: 1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Terastadon
SB: 1 Willow Satyr
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Stingerfling Spider
I just ported what i was using with a black version. I had to remove toxic deluge, and abrupt decay so those are what the open slots should address. Satyr and tower of magistrate I'm not sold on, so even more board slots.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
As promised, a more detailed report. List I registered on Saturday:
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Vesuva
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
3x Tropical Island
2x Island
1x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Eye of Ugin
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Snapcaster Mage
2x Trinket Mage
1x Thragtusk
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Expedition Map
3x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Pithing Needle
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
2x Elephant Grass
4x Repeal
3x Brainstorm
3x Crop Rotation
1x Cyclonic Rift
2x Show and Tell
1x Dig Through Time
//Sideboard
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Dark Depths
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Flusterstorm
1x Swan Song
2x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Show and Tell
1x Mindbreak Trap
2x Force of Will
Round 1 vs MUD: 0-2
I lose the die roll (a rather common occurrence this weekend) and keep a reasonable looking hand of Tropical, Cloudpost, Top, Map, Crop, Brainstorm, Candelabra. My opponent opens on City of Traitors into Chalice on 1. One of those days, eh? I don't resolve a single spell that game as all I draw are one drops and lands and eventually die to Metalworker beatdown because he doesn't draw anything either (not that he needs to at that point).
Game 2 my hand requires me to Force the first Chalice on 1, and after some deliberation I decide to Force the second one as well. It turns out not to matter at all what I pick my second fight over anyway as I get all the Glimmerposts and he gets all the Cloudposts, and I keep drawing Brainstorms where he finds actual haymakers. Matchup feels abysmal and stopping the Chalices made me feel like having the best shot of getting something done quickly that game, but that approach might have been wrong. Frankly, I'm not sure if there's a good plan going into this matchup.
Round 2: 2-1
I once again lose the die roll but to my surprise I still get to play first. This either means my opponent is a mad man that copied Caleb Durward's Turn 0 Stifle deck he presented last week, or more likely, he's mad man on Manaless Dredge. I decide to open on Pithing Needle on Phantasmagorian, a play that results in audible groan from my opponent. He ends up discarding a Stinkweed Imp instead. I follow up on Tabernacle to ensure that I at least won't have to deal with Zombies attacking this game. I pass the next turn with two mana up and he uses a couple of cyclers to get some decent graveyard action going, but he doesn't quite get into kill territory. I endstep a Snapcaster and conveniently forget to pay the Tabernacle upkeep, exiling 3 Bridges on his side, but the game is still not over as there's a bunch of Nether Shadows and Ichorids available now. He produces a Griselbrand next turn and goes to town on his graveyard. He uses the single remaining Therapy to strip me of the Forces I don't even play, seeing a Cyclonic Rift and a Primeval Titan. He decides to go ahead with his plan anyway, reanimating a Flayer of the Hatebound, followed by a Golgari Grave Troll for lethal. I Rift the Flayer in response to the Dread Return and get to live another turn. I slam Titan, gain some life and prepare for the Emrakul I know to be floating on my library. His army of recurring beaters forces me into blocking an Ichorid to survive, he Dread Returns the Flayer again and makes the wrong choice of shooting down the Titan instead of my face. Being at 7 I can now safely slam Emrakul and swing for lethal (thanks Street Wraith/Gitaxian Probe!) with the undying creature only taking me down to 2.
I mulligan to 6 game 2, keep a hand that has Flusterstorm, SnT, Titan, Top and two lands. I get double Flayered turn 2 without a chance to fight back at all.
Game 3 I get to be on the draw at least. He Phantasmagorians into Street Wraith EoT, I crop into Bojuka Bog with his upkeep triggers on the stack and he's down to no graveyard and way too few cards in hand. I SnT in the Ulamog and win before he gets back to dredging again.
Round 3 vs RUG Threshold: 0-2
Opponent opens on double Volcanic Island (including fetching for the second one), Ponder, Brainstorm, Delver action so I firmly place him on UR at that point and sculpt my gameplan accordingly. I then proceed to get double Stifled the next turn, followed up by Wasteland into Wasteland, Stifle and I'm out of options at that point. Oops, somebody did not get the memo, and I'm afraid it was me all along.
Game 2 I mulligan and run into the same problems as game 1. I eventually get to stick a Show and Tell and have the option of Titan or Ulamog. He revealed a Bolt to Delver earlier, and from game 1 I know he's playing at least 2 Chain Lightning. If he double bolts my Titan my hand is simply going nowhere, so I decide on Ulamog. Turns out Submerge is an actual Magic: the Gathering playing card I totally forgot about. He eventually bolts the Thragtusk I produce, submerges the token, wastes himself to get to Threshold and hits me for exactly the turn before I get to cast the Titan stuck in my hand.
Neither my deck nor I were prepared for this matchup. It's probably relatively even if you know what you're doing, but I had no good reason to practice against Stifle at all recently so I chug this down to my own poor preparation.
Round 4 vs Punishing Maverick: 2-0
My French isn't great, but I'm fairly certain I still understood most of the words that came out of his mouth after seeing a Cloudpost for the second time that afternoon. Game 1 I get out a quick Tabernacle and Elephant Grass, backed up by a Pithing Needle on Wasteland. His GSZ for 2 gets a Scryb Ranger, so he either has no Pridemage or no interest in getting rid of the Tabernacle, something I like quite a lot. I manage to reasonably stabilize his single creature beatdown plan and eventually Emrakul loop him.
The second game has a rather similar structure, except for the Pithing Needle. I had to crop rotate away my Eye of Ugin early to get access to blue mana, which sort of comes back to bite me later by dragging out the game a ton. I keep repealing his attacking KotRs, much to his annoyance, and eventually he commits too many of his lands to Scryb Ranger/KotR/Wasting me, so I get him hard with a Tabernacle. In the meantime, I fail to find any action in my top, dragging the game to entirely unnecessary lengths. I eventually get to slam an Emrakul as time is about to be called, making way too much of a fight out of what appears to be a fantastic matchup for us.
Round 5 vs Elves: 0-2
I once again get to be on the draw and he opens on Forest, Nettle Sentinal. Sigh. He follows up with Birchlore into a second Nettle, without a second land drop. I very much look forward to my EE for 1 on the third turn, but it turns out he also has a Heritage Druid and simply manages to exactly naturally Craterhoof me the next turn.
Game 2 I manage to slow him down considerably with a Tabernacle while he slowly beats down for 2 or so per turn. I'm having trouble finding anything good for a while. I aggressively Repeal random stuff to dig and eventually get to cash in my two Tops for double Primeval Titan after a fetchland shuffle, slam a Titan and fetch a Post and Glacial Chasm, intending to get another Post and Eye with the second Titan so I can Emrakul the following turn and everything seems safe. My opponent then produces double red with Birchlore (!) and slams a Confusion in the Ranks (!!), followed by stealing my Titan with a Deathrite (!!!). Unfortunately I boarded out my Snapcaster and Ulamog, so I can't think of any way to retain a creature until my turn with his Quirion Ranger + Dryad Arbor in play. I'm down to finding my 4th Repeal or the Cyclonic Rift to bounce the pesky enchantment, which I fail to do in time.
Round 6 vs Mono White Prison: 2-0
My opponent slams down a Greater Auramancy off double Plains on turn 2, so the jig is up right from the get go. He continues to produce other pesky white enchantments for the next couple of turns while I'm still setting up. Soon all his enchantments (and he himself) have shroud, we have no Graveyards, Artifacts can't be activated, I'm forbidden from casting Karn or All is Dust, all my creatures require roughly 35 mana to attack, except they are lowly 1/1s that can't figure out how to get across a moat. In the mean time I have managed to produce a rag tag gang of the most expensive 1/1s one could possibly play while we keep on with the draw/go nonsense. He never plays anything that could actually win the game from this point (and it turns out he doesn't even play a win condition in his deck, his entire game plan is that everybody else in Legacy draws cards or plays fetchlands so they are going to deck first). Eventually I EoT a Cyclonic Rift, which conveniently doesn't actually target anything, and my 5 1/1s are all of a sudden a lethal striking force.
Game 2 I Mindbreak Trap and hardcast Force two Nevermore to keep Cyclonic Rift alive while ramping up. He eventually taps out behind two Humilities and some other enchantments. My 1/1 Emrakul still nets me an extra turn when cast, and conveniently remains legendary under Humility, so I simply get to attack 20 times with a 1/1 Emrakul for the win.
There were barely any Brainstorms, Stoneforges or Pyromancers to be found on Saturday, so I decided to adjust my deck a bit further to the midrange matchups for Sunday. Never saw the Dig Through Time, but it would have been a great draw frequently so it still seems to have a place in the list. I ended up needing the slot though. Boarded in the third Show and Tell every round so I decided to play an additional one the next day.
Maindeck: -Thragtusk -Dig Through Time -Snapcaster Mage -Expedition Map +Show and Tell +Oracle of Mul Daya +Venser, Shaper Savant +Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard: -2 Force of Will -3 Flusterstorm +Thragtusk +2 Swan Song +Krosan Grip +Ensnaring Bridge
Day 2, Round 1 vs UWR Stoneblade: 2-1
Before pairings we even joked about how poor the matchup is from his side, so it felt like good karma that I got to demonstrate it live. His list was considerably more controlling, having no Pyromancers, two actual Counterspell, some Cliques, Snapcaster and the likes. Game 1 I play a low land SnT game. In response to my Show and Tell (having baited a Spell Pierce the turn before with my Expedition Map) he Cliques me and takes my Titan, forcing me to put in a Trinket Mage. Cutting the second Map means I'm stuck getting a rather lackluster Candelabra. He counters my second SnT, but I get to play the third one I brought in today right after, getting a Titan into play finally and cruising home from there.
Game 2 he just has all the counters while beating down with a Clique and I can't find my Cavern in Time. I eventually cast a baiting SnT to try to clear the way for a potential top deck Titan, but it resolves. I reluctantly put in a Venser and get to bounce the Baneslayer he drops. Unfortunately, the topdecked Titan gets Forced. Afterwards I inquire why he didn't counter the SnT and he simply stated that he felt like I hadn't actually drawn anything good to put in and he could get a free Baneslayer.
Game 3 he has a Containment Priest while I beat down with a Thragtusk for a relatively simple win, I eventually SnT in a Candelabra under Containment Priest so I can cast Emrakul from hand.
Round 2 vs UR Delver: 2-1
He opens on Island, Delver, I play a Tropical, he upkeep Brainstorms, reveals Ponder, I repeal his Delver in the draw step, he Dazes, replays the Island and Ponders into a shuffle. I repeal the Delver again and resolve a Pithing Needle on Scalding Tarn. He plays two of them on his following turn and doesn't find an actual red source until Turn 7, when I am already firmly in control of the game.
Game 2 I mulligan into a mediocre hand, Delver does what Delver does and I don't get to play much of a game as a result.
Game 3 drags on for a while as I get to tax him with Tabernacle and Elephant Grass and stick a Titan. I manage to just barely stick out of Price of Progress range and finish the game on 2 after paying the cost for having 7 nonbasics in play. Super close game.
Round 3 vs Miracles: 0-2
I get to play against Miracles and manage to lose somehow =( Game 1 he's a champ at blind flipping his Counterbalance twice, has just the right amount of counter magic and eventually produces 3 Angels on his end step, shuffling away his top in the process when I'm on 24. I have the option of flipping my top into an EoT Cyclonic Rift, or taking 12, then playing a Cavern into an uncounterable Titan, but shuffling away the Rift in the process. If I get a Glimmerpost with the Titan then I lose if he has a removal for Titan before I can get out an Emrakul and I know for a fact that he is playing some number of Jace in his list having seen them the round before. I decide to go for the Rift, which he Forces. He then blind hits a 1 for the Top I replay the next turn, so I don't get to Cavern the Titan, and he has another Force. Still unsure if I played the correct line here or not, chances are I should just have gone for the Titan.
Game 2 we both mulligan. I get completely stuck on 4 lands forever while he floods out on lands and bad cards. I eventually die after a gruesome Containment Priest beatdown. He felt incredibly lucky for getting out of the matchup alive and I have to agree, something went very wrong and I'm sure it's mostly my fault as well.
Round 4 vs UR Delver: 1-2
Seems like all the Brainstorms waited for Sunday to show up. My manabase implodes Game 1 and I eventually have 3 Cloudpost, 4 Glimmerpost and a lone Island in play, with a top since turn 1, never finding another colored mana source or anything to do with the 25 mana I have access to. Game 2 I Tabernacle + Elephant Grass again, keep slamming SnTs until one resolves and Titan him out. Game 3 he has a super aggressive Delver + Swiftspear plan and I'm stumbling a slight bit too hard to stop him.
Round 5 vs UR Delver: 1-2
And here we go again. My opponent has a really good grasp of how his deck works and takes things a lot more deliberate and thoughtful than the other two UR Delver players. We don't fight over things like Repeal, Expedition Map or Top, and the amount of one power beats by his Swiftspears is well into the two digits at the end of the match. He saves his countermagic and interaction for things that matter and takes home a victory in Game 1 in 14 turns (!) with neither of us having any cards in hand at the end.
Game 2 I'm a bit short on lands. He casts a Pyromancer which I decide to Blue Blast, he Pyroblasts back, tapping himself out. I start my next turn with Tropical, Glimmerpost, Karakas in play. I float a white mana and Crop away the Karakas. After a considerable pause he decides to let it resolve, I grab my Thespian's Stage, drop a Dark Depths from hand and use the Karakas mana to produce a 20/20 before passing back. He Brainstorms into a concession and later states that he had two Forces in hand at the time but couldn't think of anything dangerous I could get with the Crop Rotation. Well, turns out I could after all.
Game 3 is more of what Game 1 was like. I fail to find a second green source for Titans, eventually tap out for a Thragtusk and succumb to a big Swiftspear turn.
Round 6 vs Death and Taxes: 2-0
The final round was possibly my favorite match of the weekend. I start with a Top, he opens on Thalia and Revoker for Top, followed by a Spirit of the Labyrinth. I EE for two and produce the trusty Tabernacle + Elephant Grass combo again, starting to tax out the DnT player. He drops another Revoker on Top, but after I play a Candelabra he decides to Flickerwisp his Revoker to name Candelabra, allowing me to start digging again. He plays a list with Mangara and has a Vial on 3 and a Karakas in play so I need to find a clever way around that. I decide to let go of my Grass on the 6th age counter to play a Titan for two Cloudposts and enact a different plan. He EoTs the Mangara on a Cloudpost, then vials it back in, so I Cyclonic Rift his board before he untaps. He asks for the Oracle text on Emrakul (specifically the Annihilator amount) and then dumps his entire hand on the board to make 10 permanents. I play a second Candelabra, repeal the Revoker he replayed on Candelabra, Crop rotate into Eye of Ugin and fetch and play both Emrakul and Ulamog in the same turn.
Game 2 I have a hand of Forest, 2x Cloudpost, Vesuva, Ulamog, Scalding Tarn, Top. I open on Top, then manipulate my draw while playing Posts. He starts on Stoneforge for Batterskull. I Krosan Grip the Batterskull, he produces a Revoker on my Top while I simply play my third Cloudpost, preparing for Ulamog into Karakas looping my Vindicate beatstick the turn after. He slams a Cataclysm and the board turns into his Plains + Stoneforge + Revoker, while I get to keep a Cloudpost and a Top that does nothing. I draw a Titan and decide to fetch into Crop rotation for another Cloudpost. I produce another two green sources the next two turns and slam a Titan down when I'm on 2 life to fetch double Glimmerpost. He gets back up to three lands including a Karakas and Flickerwisps the Stoneforge to find a Sword of Fire and Ice. I swing with Titan to get another two Glimmerposts and Ulamog the Flickerwisp. He finds a Council's Judgement for the Titan, bounces the Ulamog EoT to swing in with his crude Revoker, Stoneforge, Thalia team before Flickerwisping the Stoneforge again to find a Jitte. On my turn I simply replay the Ulamog, destroying the other Flickerwisp and playing a Karakas of my own. He once again EoT bounces the Ulamog, then decides to vial in the Sword and equip the Thalia instead of the Revoker. On his attack I bounce the Thalia and he concedes, but I would have won the race the other way around as well, having drawn a safety Repeal the turn before.
The UR Delver matchup is something I'll have to practice some more and find a better plan of attack for. The sideboard counterspells felt very anemic all weekend, even when I got to cast them. They never countered anything of relevance or protected something I particularly cared about, and I haven't had much success with a counter heavy sideboard against dedicated combo in the past either. I'll have to see if I can brew up some more proactive approaches to the problems I currently try to solve with them. Show and Tell came in every single round, but have gotten considerably weaker with the widespread adaption of Pyroblast. They are fantastic at baiting counters, but they get countered by the spells that couldn't harm your important spell you're trying to protect anyway so I'm a bit lukewarm on them for now.
The Dark Depths combo felt good to have frequently. While I only produced a single Marit Lage I was preparing for it as a backup plan in a lot of games and felt good having a powerful move available if my opponent taps out at the wrong time. Not sure if it's worth the sideboard slots or the potential maindeck slots just yet, but I'll stick with it for a while. Cyclonic Rift was absolutely amazing all weekend long in both modes, despite the unfortunate end to the Miracles game. I can't recommend giving it a try enough. Thragtusk was also very powerful and has earned a slot in the 75, I'm just not sure where just yet. Tabernacle and Elephant Grass felt super strong both in the arbitrary field of Saturday and the more "expected" metagame that was around for Sunday. The manabase could take some work, I want to squeeze in a 6th fetchland somehow as I often wanted another colored source and shuffle effect and just overall stumbled a bit too much. Playing more Expedition Maps again might also help in that regard.
And finally, Brainstorm just heavily underperformed all the time. I cut down to 3 for a reason after all. In 12 matches, it did something relatively powerful exactly once, which was shuffling back two artifacts under Stony Silence, and that happened in a game I literally couldn't lose as my opponent was unaware the card Cyclonic Rift existed. Most frequently all it did was essentially cycle into another irrelevant card so I could dig one card deeper with top. I might just be doing something wrong, but I find it hard to get a lot of value out of the card in my games. Sometime on Sunday I started to wonder if I'd rather have a Peek instead of a Brainstorm in a given situation, and the frequency with which I had to answer yes doesn't bode well for the future of the card in my lists. I'm rather tempted to try to get back to cards like Phyrexian Revoker, Oblivian Stone and the likes and try a less blue focused list.
Finally, mad props to Jan for dodging the mirror despite our best efforts at ending up in the same bracket constantly and being seated next to each other.
What was the thought behind two caverns? I know you have been against its inclusion in the past. What match-ups did you play against?
Other than the caverns the list looks pretty similar to what I have been moving to.
@LLCoolDave
Sucks about the bad luck, but I wouldn't cut down on the brainstorms. brainstorm (despite being the most powerful card in legacy) allows for many more option when you have it in hand. being a control deck cloupost wants and needs as many potential options as it can get to be able to pull itself out of sticky situations. Brainstorm also make hands that are Mulliganed better by allowing for better card selection.
I went to Strasbourg as well and talked a lot to LLCoolDave, which was a pleasure. We mostly have similar opinions on many questions about this deck. I played all 3 days, 6 rounds each. In total I went 8:10, which is rather disappointing... Also had to play against the same MUD player as LLCoolDave, without a chance at all. Second nightmare game was against Elves, got crushed in 10 minutes. Rest of the games felt like "Ok, I lost, but it's ok somehow". Once opponent forgot the Tabernacle - trigger and drew a card. A spectator called for judge before I could do anything. Judge votet for a backup, opponent could go back to his upkeep! So I called for the headjudge. He confirmed the decision..... I had to accept it :-/ but I won the match. Later another player who saw the situation talked to higher judge, and this judge talked to the headjudge of the legacy event. When I talked to the headjudge some time later, he apologized for wrong ruling. I won the match, and the apology from the judge was a noble gesture.
sounds like you had some bad luck and that sucks. Might i suggest looking at the list i proposed above. It has better matches against the decks you lost to.
against mud, you would have natural order, and not be concerned at all about chalice.
against elves, the deck is a little faster than the traditional list and it runs chalice main which obviously buys you time. I think chasm wins this match if you can survive long enough. Post board trinisphere wrecks them too.
Against UR delver, which seems to be not great for your build, chalice does a lot of work, and any pryoblasts they have are worthless because my list runs no blue.
just reviewing the matches you played, the version i proposed does not weaken the matches you win, it simply improves the matches you lost.
my version seems like it doesn't have consistency because its not running blue but, GSZ creates a lot of those advantages, along with sylvan library. Instead of having cantrips the deck gives you more business spells. almost everything you cast is very threatening. Sylvan library is so amazing with glimmerpost I'm not sure why its not run in the traditional lists.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Cavern has become the "new show and tell" for a treasure cruise meta. Cavern lets you be behind on card advantage, which you will be against any delver variant, and still swing the game back drastically towards you with a titan, which was your plan already. Rarely will these decks counter your early hand/mana fixing (save crop rotate of course), which allows you to blindside them with a Cavern->Titan as your later/last land drop. I went to 2 Cavern specifically because I was finding I tutored for it so often, and was even Vesuva'ing it in play, that early caverns or having a plan to wasted-cavern makes the game much simpler to close out and clinch.
Really Treasure Cruise made Cavern a must-have. Previously you could go toe-to-toe from a card advantage perspective, but now you get buried early and if you want to come back, your first moment at 6 mana has to swing the game, which cavern does well.
Also since good Combo has shifted more towards blue-combo, cavern gives you an uncounterable counterspell in the form of Venser, that also works with Trinket Mage and other choice Wizards.
Won 3 rounds of weekly magic with this list:
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [RLM] Glacial Chasm
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [KTK] Treasure Cruise
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [AL] Force of Will
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 4 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [C13] Bane of Progress
SB: 3 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [ARB] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [R] Tundra
SB: 1 [C14] Titania, Protector of Argoth
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Rounds were Cloudpost MUD, Punishing Jund, Helmerator.
Meddling mages didn't show up, but the Tundra as an added blue source was highly relevant.
Has anyone tried and succeeded in playing with only one Eldrazi (obv. Emrakul)? In order to control the awkward 1-of's this is what I've been pondering lately. Of course, it hurts when you have less than Emrakul mana available. In some builds the Ulamog trigger might be redundant, and you most likely already have shaved some number of Show and Tells and don't need so many monsters for those either.
I have only thought of this path and wanted to know if there are any experiences to share regarding this.
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
The deck used to run 3 eldrazi, and the 2 eldrazi plan is a product of the "how low can the deck go eldrazi-wise" line of thought you're asking.
While I'm sure the deck could work with only 1 eldrazi, I cast kozilek far more than I do emrakul because the breakpoints to get to 15 mana are far simpler than 20 mana.
I really like where you've arrived, this looks really promising! Maybe it's a bit soft to multiple wastelands, but it should have a fair fight against almost the whole gauntlet. Also, doubling the caverns calling wizards allow you to cast more easily meddling mages too. Will test for sure!
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