[Deck] 12 Post

[caw_86]

with the rise in popularity of the u/r delver decks i think i want to be going back to a 2-3 elephant grass in my board for jersey. i already upped the BEB count to 4 which i have been liking.

[Postman]

Played a little tournament, 5 rounds, 3:2 (including a bye). Lost to a 4 coloured deck (stifle, Wasteland, sinkhole, daze, force, Delver, goyf... Impossible to win) and UR Burn. Yes, Burn. No Delver or so, only Snapcaster Mage. I need ideas on how to deal with Price of Progress? Chasmn doesn't help, lifegain from glimmerposts is too slow... Even thinking about a white splash sideboard plan, like 3 Tutors and a few bullets like Aegis of Honor, but they would be countered...

[sauce]

Played a little tournament, 5 rounds, 3:2 (including a bye). Lost to a 4 coloured deck (stifle, Wasteland, sinkhole, daze, force, Delver, goyf... Impossible to win) and UR Burn. Yes, Burn. No Delver or so, only Snapcaster Mage. I need ideas on how to deal with Price of Progress? Chasmn doesn't help, lifegain from glimmerposts is too slow... Even thinking about a white splash sideboard plan, like 3 Tutors and a few bullets like Aegis of Honor, but they would be countered...

Why does chasm not help vs Price of progress exactly?
Board in BEB's and Swan songs, it's the only spell that deals way too much damage.

[Postman]

Why does chasm not help vs Price of progress exactly?
Board in BEB's and Swan songs, it's the only spell that deals way too much damage.

That's what I do, 3 BEBs and 4 Swan Songs come in. But usually I lose the counter battle (FoW, Daze, 1-2 Spell Pierce) or a turn later Snapcaster Mage brings it up again.
Chasmn : I hide behind it, and the moment I sac it because I want to attack with Emrakul, opponent fires PoP with counter - backup for lethal damage. Same for Crop in response to PoP on stack, often Crop gets countered, or I have to hide 2-3 turns behind it to build the board up and opponent uses time to cantrip for more PoPs... MU feels like 15-85...

[sauce]

That's what I do, 3 BEBs and 4 Swan Songs come in. But usually I lose the counter battle (FoW, Daze, 1-2 Spell Pierce) or a turn later Snapcaster Mage brings it up again.
Chasmn : I hide behind it, and the moment I sac it because I want to attack with Emrakul, opponent fires PoP with counter - backup for lethal damage. Same for Crop in response to PoP on stack, often Crop gets countered, or I have to hide 2-3 turns behind it to build the board up and opponent uses time to cantrip for more PoPs... MU feels like 15-85...

I usually win the matchup with glimmerposts, repeal on their beaters and S&T or hardcast titan. You wait until you have blue blast before you let Chasm go or you know that PoP wont kill you either way.
If they have it all the hats off to them.

[Postman]

I usually win the matchup with glimmerposts, repeal on their beaters and S&T or hardcast titan. You wait until you have blue blast before you let Chasm go or you know that PoP wont kill you either way.
If they have it all the hats off to them.

Surprised to hear you usually win the MU, but at least there is some hope again :-) but it feels horrible for me: you need Titan, S&T plus BEB in hand to let chasmn go and loose to a single Counterspell plus PoP, or double Bolt. Repeal is almost a dead card, since the lists in my area are UR Burn without creatures, only Snapcaster... And I definitifly don't want to bounce him

[Rock Lee]

Funny that you mention that caw, because I just yesterday won a local GPT (24 people) with this list:

// Lands
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [R] Tropical Island
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [LRW] Island (1)
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [KTK] Treasure Cruise
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [ON] Chain of Vapor
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [GP] Repeal
3 [VI] Elephant Grass
4 [LRW] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 1 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog


My matchups were Burn (2-0), BUG control (2-1), Manaless Dredge (2-0), Esper Deathblade [worcester scg list] 2-1, ID /w Belcher. Top 8: Death and Taxes (2-0), U/R Delver (2-1), Manaless dredge (2-1)

::EDIT for tournament report::

Round 1: Burn
Game 1 has him put me down to 12, and I show and tell Emrakul with 2 islands in play. Not your normal play, but it'll often get there game one. Huzzah.

Game 2 I hydroblast a goblin guide and a monastery swiftspear, with two free lands and grind him down to zero cards while I go down to 1 to hardcast a primeval titan. This blasts me upto 15 life and he doesn't draw price of progress. I know he has pyroblast in hand, so I dig something furious for two counters incase he draws a pop as I had to pass back, siding out emrakul. After getting to storm 16 he concedes.

Round 2: BUG control
Game 1 is my deck being insanely resilient in the face of counters. He has thoughtseizes and lilianas, and I have treasure cruises and titans to counter.
Game 2 I mull to a hand of 5 lands and candelabra. He seizes away the candelabra and my next 3 draws are lands. my 4th draw is a brainstorm, which I sorcery speed cast, and his 4 lands cast notion thief. What. a. blowout. Deck didn't want me to win that one. I scoop to save time.
Game 3 is much more of a slog fest, but I resolve a kozilek on turn 5 and that generally goes poorly. The game grinds out significantly with him countering loads of things, but the raw advantage of Kozilek draw and treasure cruises seal the deal.

Round 3: Manaless Dredge
Game 1 has him with a turn 2 kill with balstrade spy, which he goes for without therapying. I go for crop rotate into glacial chasm and he mills himself.
Game 2 I have surgical for bridges and a crop rotate to sweep his yard. Tried to avoid showing him tabernacle and elephant grass, which I was able to do.

Round 4: Esper Deathblade
Game 1: He does deathblade things, which involves controlling the non-land board, which I generally have vacant until the win stage presents itself. Kozilek did some serious work. A treasure cruise had to be forced, and then another resolved.
Game 2: I get stuck on 3 lands hard, with my only draw being repeal on his deathrite shaman. My lack of mana development catches up with me as he draws 3 forces for my 3 titans and we go to game 3.
Game 3: I have an extremely resilient hand of brainstorm, ponder, ponder, fetch, fetch, crop rotate, show and tell. He seizes away my show and tell in quick order, and I start cantrip building. He came prepared with plentiful forces and treasure cruises before I do, catapulting him forward in advantage. In the penultimate turn with us going to time and me on turn 3 with him having 1 away from lethal on his board, I cast kozilek, knowing he has a force of will, which gets countered, Glen Elendra Archmage, which gets countered, and candelabra of tawnos, which enables me to draw 4 more cards off kozilek via an untapped karakas and my refreshed 16 mana. My first 7 cards are completely dead off kozilek, but the 8th is a chain of vapor, which nets me ridiculous mana off my candelabra to get emrakul and steal turn 4 with anihilator 10 and a guarantee of turn 5 as well thanks to karakas.

Semifinals: Death and Taxes
Game 1: He leads with a slower start of a turn 2 thalia, I lead with what could have been a turn 3 kozilek, but opted for a turn 4 and a blue source as he has a karakas. He bounces my guy while attempting to establish pressure. Kozilek draws me 4 more cards for the second time, and I get elephant grass going. Unable to attack while develop, his damage slows down to 2-4 a turn, while I develop madly, and in 2 turns I am wildly out of control for him.

Game 2: He keeps a more aggressive vial + ports plan, and I burn my cantrips early to avoid potential spirit of the labyrinth shenanigans off his vial. He stoneforges, then revokers, but elephant grass is being a nuisance. He gets managara-karakas lock going while I have a tabernacle and many cloudposts ticking and goes multiple turns of equal trading to me while I am taking no damage but making land drops. A Primeval titan tutors up a karakas and more mana than mangara can eat once-per-turn, and the next turn he concedes when titan, tabernacle, karakas, and 12 mana for kozilek overwhelm him.

Quarterfinals: U/R Delver
Game 1: I keep a hand of triple elephant grass, cantrips, and mana. He keeps a 2 mana hand of cantrips and monastery swiftspear. Guess how this goes? I'm at 17 life before I take no damage for the rest of the game and cast emrakul.
Game 2: A very grindy game where I have hydroblasts galore but no elephant grasses, allowing him to hit me and cantrip freely. He resolves a treasure cruise one turn before I do and therefore has the counter for mine, and 2 turns later gets a blood moon. 4 turns later of weak beats is my demise.
Game 3: Similar to game two of the game of grind. After an eot Hydroblast on a blood moon, I manage to cast a titan after the show was forced pitching a daze, putting me upto ridiculous life totals and getting both my basics. He attempts a double bolt on my titan, but I hydroblast the second bolt. After this he keeps back a pyromancer-swiftspear to block the lethal titan. I eot hydroblast the monastery swiftspear and after blocks I repeal the blocking pyromancer and elemental for exactly 5 lethal trample damage.

Finals: Manaless dredge
Game 1: I get lucky. No two ways about it. He sees my hand with therapy naming crop rotation, with my only live card being a repeal and trop-trop available. He goes for balstrade spy on turn 2 and I respond to the zombie triggers from dread return by repealing a zombie. I draw. Crop Rotation. of Course. I let him mill himself out fully, and then crop rotate for Glacial Chasm and he mills himself out.
Game 2: I mull to 4. FOUR!. I was mulling for hate, but more importantly the hands after my first had zero mana. I keep on ponder-Snapcaster-Land-Surgical. As best as I can hope for. The game grinds itself out hard and my future ponders and cantrips yield me nothing after repeated shuffles. I end up getting beat for 3-4 a turn while my deck kept bricking on me, until that final swing where we go to game 3.
Game 3: Another mull. No mana. My hand is Ponder, Surgical, Brainstorm, fetch, fetch, titan. As keepable as ever. First ponder reveals ponder, brainstorm, emrakul, which I keep as this gives me plenty of look next turn. He discards a Grave troll and passes. I fetch away emrakul, ponder, see 3 lands, shuffle and draw a land. Ponder again, 3 lands. shuffle and draw a land. Pass. He street wraiths on my eot, flipping some delicious cards, including a bridge and ichorid. I wait until he goes to therapy me with a dead ichorid, and exile his bridges with surgical. He passes, with plenty of sauce in his yard to dread return things galore next turn. I draw a candelabra, which I cast, now having a cloudpost in play. Brainstorm reveals brainstorm, land, and a chain of vapor. Relatively rubbash. I fetch and the second brainstorm reveals bog, and chasm and fetch, after I've played my land for turn. Oh why do you hate me sometimes deck? Where are my show and tells, crops, elephant grasses, surgicals?! I chain of vapor to buy me a turn of hateflayer death, and he dread returns a chancellor of the annex, which is highly relevant since I have exactly 6 mana for titan, and annex now counters it. I develop mana, cast another ponder, which I shuffle and draw... a land from. And pass, tapped out. He has me dead to rights with a dread return on his hateflayer as I'm at 1 life after his attacks. He dread returns, I'm ready to scoop, and the target is ... A 2nd Chancellor of the Annex. I blink. twice. four times. amazed. I've been given a turn for free, via my titan in hand, I just need to draw one mana that doesn't ping me for one (looking at you misty rainforest x2 in my hand). I draw.. a cloudpost! Slam it in play, a 2nd candelabra joins the fray and still generates positive mana despite double chancellors. Primeval titan hits play despite costing 8. I think about the best way to address this board at 1 life and him having 11 power in creatures in play (nether shadow, x2 chancellor of the annex) and ichorids and hateflayers in the bin. I get Tabernacle at pendrell vale and bojuka bog targetting him. This sweeps his grave and kills his lethal -swing of any guy in upkeep. I breath the biggest sigh of relief ever, and he concedes with my next attack, which gets me infinite turns.

The poor guy was terribly tilted, but these things happen, especially in the finals, where endurance and concentration waver the most.

Props: Acorn Squash, pectin, and cranberries for my concentration levels being maintained
Slops: Ponder and Brainstorm for x6 letting me down on game 3 of the finals. Clearly these cards are offal.

[Rock Lee]

Played a little tournament, 5 rounds, 3:2 (including a bye). Lost to a 4 coloured deck (stifle, Wasteland, sinkhole, daze, force, Delver, goyf... Impossible to win) and UR Burn. Yes, Burn. No Delver or so, only Snapcaster Mage. I need ideas on how to deal with Price of Progress? Chasmn doesn't help, lifegain from glimmerposts is too slow... Even thinking about a white splash sideboard plan, like 3 Tutors and a few bullets like Aegis of Honor, but they would be countered...

Without posting your list and details of the match, we can't give real advice.

[Postman]

Without posting your list and details of the match, we can't give real advice.

Absolutly correct, sorry :-(
Typing via mobile phone, sorry for wrong spellings...

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul
1 Kozilek
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Trinket Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
1 Wipe Away
3 Show and Tell
3 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle
2 Treasure Cruise

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasmn
1 Cavern of Souls


SB:
4 Swan Song
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Karn, Liberated
2 Moment's Peace
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip

[caw_86]

played a 6 round 45 player event saturday with this

2-0 u/r delver
this was a budget deck and new player so ill just skip over this match

2-1 u/r delver
game one he didnt play a creature til turn 4, which is the turn that deck wants to kill you so i had plenty of time to due my thing
g2 got forced into playing chasm to survive early, had bolt price ready after the shields were down
g3 something something show and tell he loses

1-2 mono R painter
g1 i know what im playing against since we were sitting next to each other last round
im on the play and i see top, island, show and tell in my opening 7, couldnt ask for a better three to start with for this match.
his turn 1 moon was did nothing, i saw about 20 different cards from top over the course of the game before he blasted all my basics, which he drew 5 in the early part of the game. never found a fatty, and died with show and tell in my hand
g2 forest vesuva into titan on turn 6 and just attack him for 4 turns
g3 i blast his turn 2 moon, turn 3 i force his painter, he blast, i blast, he draws blind of top finds SSG to blast back. i only fought over the painter because i did not have a third land in hand and could not afford to get stone rained. on my next turn i crop away a trop for trop to cruise and find a land for a show and tell next turn, but he had another blast. we both play draw go for a while, hes in top deck i have a titan and emmy in my hand, i untap at one point 1 shy of emmrakul and 1 green of titan, i have to pass with repeal up to bounce any moon he has, he taps wrong when he plays his moon to were he cant recast it when i bounce it but he had the blast again. then i die to dude beat down. i was quite salty with this loss for most of the day

1-2 miracles
g1 i mull to 5, he gets a quick counter top lock, my last ditch effort to find eye with double crop in response to top draw was met with double brainstorm
g2 making my land drops, kill a batterskull germ, he plays jace, fateseals me, he gives it an awkward look then looks at my lands with double couldpost in play already. he leaves it on top. i draw and its another cloudpost, i happily play my land he gave me as i have emrakul and glimmer post waiting in the hand already.
g3 i mull to 6, relevant later. he plays t2 SFM, turn three batterskull, turn 4 batterskull, turn 5 blood moon. 20, 16, 7, dead. the moon wasnt even relevant, my 2 glimmer post couldnt even buy me another turn to cast titan. always rough to lose to miralces. my opening 7 was island, island, repeal, repeal, EE, glimmer post, show and tell, guess i should have kept, thats a great hand for dealing with pesky batterskulls.


2-0 miracles
i played this guy at the last scg open in town show we both knew what was gonna happen
g1 he scoops to caverned titan
g2 he meddling mages repeal, turn 5 entreat for 3 followed, i fog, i cast ulamog kill and angel, but he had another entreat for 5 eot, i was in a rough spot, i could cast ulamog, kill jace or angel hope i get a turn, cast titan gain some life, but no third green for moments peace, or do nothing with moments peace. just could get enough mana fast enough to beat the angels.

2-0 infect
g1 ramp then hide behind chasm
g2 same thing

4-2 9th or 10 place and missed out on a chance for to win a lotus

changes im eyeing are dropping cruises for kozilek and third snt.
mindbreak traps into elephant grass and maybe a kgrip somewhere
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [IA] Island
1 [IA] forest
3 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [AVR] cavern of souls
1 [WWK] khalni garden

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the infinite gyre
1 [ZEN] oracle of mul daya
1 [5DN] trinket mage



// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [GP] Repeal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of tawnos
2 [KTK] Treasure cruise
2 [US] Show and Tell
2 [SoK] Pithing Needle
1 [5DN] Engineered explosives
1 [ODY] moment's peace


// Sideboard
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 1 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [ODY] moment's peace
SB: 4 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [M15] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak trap

[Mockingbird]

What are thoughts on taxing effects? I've been playing MUD-Post more lately because Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere are just as relevant as ever, especially with the rapid rise of URx Delve(r). I saw that Rock Lee has started playing Elephant Grass, so I'm curious what thoughts are on making the game more expensive.

[Rock Lee]

Absolutly correct, sorry :-(
Typing via mobile phone, sorry for wrong spellings...

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul
1 Kozilek
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Trinket Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
1 Wipe Away
3 Show and Tell
3 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle
2 Treasure Cruise

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasmn
1 Cavern of Souls


SB:
4 Swan Song
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Karn, Liberated
2 Moment's Peace
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip

How much have you tested against U/R Delver /w monastery swiftspear and treasure cruise? That deck is essentially 2-3 turns faster to kill than u/r burn. Since I tested to be able to beat the turn 3 regular-kill with u/r delver /w swiftspear and cruise, I figure my testing might prove fruitful for you as well.

U/R testing conclusions:
Top is too slow. I love top. Top has amazing tricks. it is fantastic at what it does. It is just too slow. Doing nothing turn 1, and looking at a card turn 2, and turn 3 making good on the advantage is far too slow. You're dying on turn 3 against swiftspear, sometimes your turn 2. You need 0-1 mana answers against them.
Map is too slow. For the same reasons as top, except even slower. On your turn 3 you don't make good on your advantage, turn 4 is when you do. In slower metas, map will thrive.
Needle does nothing against u/r delver or u/r burn. Yes I know this makes problem matchups of some decks, but if you want to play this deck competitively you have to be able to adapt to the altering meta, and right now it is faster than it has ever been before. As a control/ramp deck, this is a huge problem.
Trinket Mage package is sadly too slow, for the aforementioned speed reasons.

I tried many solutions to this u/r delver's speed problem, and decided there were two ways to go with it, one was splash black, run thoughtseize, abrupt decay, pernicious deed and possibly go green-sun's zenith. Since Colorless management is a color unto itself in this deck, this means going 4 color, which is a nightmare in this deck. It might work, but for the time being I'm sticking with u/g, which has proven strong to me.

The solution the works for me is heavy blue. Bounce spells galore, which double as acceleration on candelabras and snapcasters. Then swapping maps/tops for Ponders and bounce spells. It means I run slightly less fixing, and this could be addressed multiple ways in the future, but for the moment we're sticking with the build I mention in my tournament report several posts back on this page.

I like elephant grass, but it could easily swap roles for other cards should the build change like DRS.

[sauce]

I think the E.grass is great vs UR delver, I put one in my sb this week.

[Postman]

How much have you tested against U/R Delver /w monastery swiftspear and treasure cruise? That deck is essentially 2-3 turns faster to kill than u/r burn. Since I tested to be able to beat the turn 3 regular-kill with u/r delver /w swiftspear and cruise, I figure my testing might prove fruitful for you as well.

U/R testing conclusions:
Top is too slow. I love top. Top has amazing tricks. it is fantastic at what it does. It is just too slow. Doing nothing turn 1, and looking at a card turn 2, and turn 3 making good on the advantage is far too slow. You're dying on turn 3 against swiftspear, sometimes your turn 2. You need 0-1 mana answers against them.
Map is too slow. For the same reasons as top, except even slower. On your turn 3 you don't make good on your advantage, turn 4 is when you do. In slower metas, map will thrive.
Needle does nothing against u/r delver or u/r burn. Yes I know this makes problem matchups of some decks, but if you want to play this deck competitively you have to be able to adapt to the altering meta, and right now it is faster than it has ever been before. As a control/ramp deck, this is a huge problem.
Trinket Mage package is sadly too slow, for the aforementioned speed reasons.

I tried many solutions to this u/r delver's speed problem, and decided there were two ways to go with it, one was splash black, run thoughtseize, abrupt decay, pernicious deed and possibly go green-sun's zenith. Since Colorless management is a color unto itself in this deck, this means going 4 color, which is a nightmare in this deck. It might work, but for the time being I'm sticking with u/g, which has proven strong to me.

The solution the works for me is heavy blue. Bounce spells galore, which double as acceleration on candelabras and snapcasters. Then swapping maps/tops for Ponders and bounce spells. It means I run slightly less fixing, and this could be addressed multiple ways in the future, but for the moment we're sticking with the build I mention in my tournament report several posts back on this page.

I like elephant grass, but it could easily swap roles for other cards should the build change like DRS.

Thanks a lot for the great explanation! That really helps, especially to think about my beloved toy SDT. What about the high number of fetchlands in your build (8 if I remember right)? What's their main purpose, filling the GY or the shuffle effect? Always a bit scared because of the life loss in nower days...
About the shifting meta : it's horrible for me! Some people are always up to date, the other part seem to stick on their old builds for month :-/

[Rock Lee]

Thanks a lot for the great explanation! That really helps, especially to think about my beloved toy SDT. What about the high number of fetchlands in your build (8 if I remember right)? What's their main purpose, filling the GY or the shuffle effect? Always a bit scared because of the life loss in nower days...
About the shifting meta : it's horrible for me! Some people are always up to date, the other part seem to stick on their old builds for month :-/

This most recent meta shift was KTK printings blowing apart every single format. The set has more format-warping cards than any other set in my competitive memory with the possible exception of mirrodin, which really only warped extended and standard/T2.

Meta shifts will happen slowly on their own however as dominant decks rise up, hate decks will develop to fight them, which means decks that fight off the hate decks will rise up, which means sideboard/mainboard hate for other archetypes lessens, which means a previously subverted archetype is now ripe to achieve dominance, and the entire process begins again. That is natural meta shifting, which can be explained and predicted with the archetype wheel concept.

The current KTK incurred type of meta shift just interjects an overtly overpowered card into the meta, which causes massive destabilization as people explore options of both how to abuse, but also adapt to said card. Since 2 extremely strong cards were injected simultaneously, the destabilization is even further, but at this point is established. The danger from a design standpoint, is if said card is too dominant where even hatedecks can't regularly beat it (see, current meta) then bannings need to occur to allow that natural meta shift to continue once again. Note, this is why vintage has no meta shifts. It is tidally locked into timevault key hate and wizards won't ban/errata their way free of it. That is essentially the way to kill a format.

[Zotmaster]

Funny that you mention that caw, because I just yesterday won a local GPT (24 people) with this list:

My sadness that you are running Tabernacle again (since I can't afford one) is tempered by the fact that you won. Congrats :)

I'm thinking of trying your list - again, sans Tabernacle - and was wondering how you board. Obviously BEB/Hydro comes in against anything heavily red. But what about everything else? I'm assuming Surgical Extraction is your hedge against combo? What do you board out?

[Rock Lee]

What are thoughts on taxing effects? I've been playing MUD-Post more lately because Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere are just as relevant as ever, especially with the rapid rise of URx Delve(r). I saw that Rock Lee has started playing Elephant Grass, so I'm curious what thoughts are on making the game more expensive.

Taxing effects are one of the best ways to fight streamlined decks. Elephant Grass for aggro, Mystic Remora for combo/spells. Elephant Grass is significantly amplified in strength with Tabernacle. Back when RUG delver was the deck to beat, I ran 3 elephant grass in the side and destroyed them with it. The same concept applies to U/R.

My sadness that you are running Tabernacle again (since I can't afford one) is tempered by the fact that you won. Congrats :)

I'm thinking of trying your list - again, sans Tabernacle - and was wondering how you board. Obviously BEB/Hydro comes in against anything heavily red. But what about everything else? I'm assuming Surgical Extraction is your hedge against combo? What do you board out?

I don't have a set sideboard plan. I always adapt to what I'm playing. I have some general sideboard plans, but usually those only involve 2-3 cards I'll always side out/in certain times. easily 60%+ of my siding is adaptive.

[Mockingbird]

Taxing effects are one of the best ways to fight streamlined decks. Elephant Grass for aggro, Mystic Remora for combo/spells. Elephant Grass is significantly amplified in strength with Tabernacle. Back when RUG delver was the deck to beat, I ran 3 elephant grass in the side and destroyed them with it. The same concept applies to U/R.

I was talking about what additional ways to fight an increasing URx Delve(r) could be viable. I've been playing more MUD-Post recently because Chalice, Trinisphere, and Lodestone Golem all significantly hinder their plan , and I'm curious about other effects like those or Thorn of Amethyst or Sphere of Resistance sound in this meta.

Another candidate solution to the hyper aggro meta I've been mulling over is life gain. Even before I started playing MUD-Post again, I figured out that Glimmerpost outright puts us out of Delve(r)'s range... at least when Price of Progress isn't in the mix, so I'm considering hate-sticks that do something similar like Thragtusk, Obstinate Baloth, or even MUD's star child Wurmcoil Engine. The problem I have to test through (and would appreciate feedback regarding) is whether or not they are too expensive to make a last minute reprieve from death.

[Rock Lee]

I was talking about what additional ways to fight an increasing URx Delve(r) could be viable. I've been playing more MUD-Post recently because Chalice, Trinisphere, and Lodestone Golem all significantly hinder their plan , and I'm curious about other effects like those or Thorn of Amethyst or Sphere of Resistance sound in this meta.

Another candidate solution to the hyper aggro meta I've been mulling over is life gain. Even before I started playing MUD-Post again, I figured out that Glimmerpost outright puts us out of Delve(r)'s range... at least when Price of Progress isn't in the mix, so I'm considering hate-sticks that do something similar like Thragtusk, Obstinate Baloth, or even MUD's star child Wurmcoil Engine. The problem I have to test through (and would appreciate feedback regarding) is whether or not they are too expensive to make a last minute reprieve from death.

Well MUDpost is in another thread.

But I just told a few folks how 3 cmc answers are too slow against u/r.

[apple713]

has anyone tried sun droplet ? ppl in tezz forum were talking about how it managed to buy them time against decks like delver.