[Deck] 12 Post

[Rock Lee]

Also some more food for thought....

Blood moon and Urborg will make them produce Red only.
Blood moon and riftstone portal in the graveyard will still allow your lands to produce Green and White.

Sadly blood moon and urborg isn't nearly as cool. Blood moon removes urborg's text, and while urborg is a simultaneously applying effect, the end result upon a player receiving priority is that Urborg is a mountain, and not all lands are swamps. This is hingant upon urborg relying on dependencies (if something still is in my text box, I do this) instead of timestamps (who came in first to determine who does what when [think humility + opalescence + humiliy/opalescence combos]), and not to be confused with multiple layer interactions like painter + humility or magus of the moon + humility both still applying their type changing effects.

LAYERS!

[TheBoozeCube]

TheBoozeCube, i think that comparing strirrings and brainstorm is not very right. Brainstorm can help you to imrove your hand. For example you have heavy spells. and you need quick start. you play brainstorm. Bring good cards. Put two bad cards on top. Then fetch, or map, or crop etc

now i am testing your build quiet a lot. Very intersting and solid list. But for me a little bit strange several things. After more tests i will ask some questions

thks for a great job!

True, you can't put bad cards back with Ancient Stirrings. My point was more that it plays a similar role to Brainstorm in the deck, although maybe Ponder is a better comparison. Ancient Stirrings also helps you in the situation you described, as it allows you to dig very quickly for land. In fact, the only land-light hands I am usually willing to keep are those with a green source and multiple Ancient Stirrings. I've won quite a few games where I've mulled to four because I had a Forest and two Ancient Stirrings.

But Ancient Stirrings gets better and better as the game progresses, as it allows you to dig very deeply for whatever threat or answer you need. It and Crop Rotation are the main reasons I'm playing green at all. Exploration is very powerful and explosive, but it's those 8 cards that make the deck work.

Also some more food for thought....

Blood moon and Urborg will make them produce Red only.
Blood moon and riftstone portal in the graveyard will still allow your lands to produce Green and White.

This is true, and definitely something to keep in mind for other builds. However, I'm not usually worried about producing Green through a Blood Moon. It's one of the reasons I play so many basic Forests. And Blood Moon already allows Mazes and Tabernacle tap for mana.

[prgmctan]

I think the mono-green list is a little land light, even with 29 lands. I'm experimenting with adding two forests instead of two candles. So far, the forests have worked out better around 75% of the time, and the other 25% it would have been better to have a candle.

[Barook]

I think the mono-green list is a little land light, even with 29 lands. I'm experimenting with adding two forests instead of two candles. So far, the forests have worked out better around 75% of the time, and the other 25% it would have been better to have a candle.

Why Forests, though? I haven't had trouble with green mana so far.

If I added anything, it would be rather a Cavern of Souls to push an Eldrazi through countermagic against fast blue decks.

[prgmctan]

Why Forests, though? I haven't had trouble with green mana so far.

If I added anything, it would be rather a Cavern of Souls to push through an Eldrazi through countermagic against fast blue decks.

I have actually had trouble getting green. I don't know if it's just been unlucky draws, but I seem to get either green cards or forests, rarely both at the same time.

[TimHarding]

Something I've toyed with in past Exploration Eldrazi attempts has been Simic Growth Chamber/Selesnya Sanctuary. Cheesy bounce lands, borrowed from Bloom Titan, really help abuse Exploration when the deck doesn't want 35+ lands/loam. They create one-card card advantage, that synergizes well with candle and exploration, when those two cards are often card-disadvantage. Additional goodies include more GP/Bog triggers, reset cavern/vesuva/Chasm, Crop respond to actually save the land that's dying rather than replacing it+mana ramp. Plus they're colored 2 tappers. The advantage adds up quick.

[Barook]

Something I've toyed with in past Exploration Eldrazi attempts has been Simic Growth Chamber/Selesnya Sanctuary. Cheesy bounce lands, borrowed from Bloom Titan, really help abuse Exploration when the deck doesn't want 35+ lands/loam. They create one-card card advantage, that synergizes well with candle and exploration, when those two cards are often card-disadvantage. Additional goodies include more GP/Bog triggers, reset cavern/vesuva/Chasm, Crop respond to actually save the land that's dying rather than replacing it+mana ramp. Plus they're colored 2 tappers. The advantage adds up quick.

Doesn't that also open you up to Wasteland even more if you don't have an Exploration in play?

[prgmctan]

Something I've toyed with in past Exploration Eldrazi attempts has been Simic Growth Chamber/Selesnya Sanctuary. Cheesy bounce lands, borrowed from Bloom Titan, really help abuse Exploration when the deck doesn't want 35+ lands/loam. They create one-card card advantage, that synergizes well with candle and exploration, when those two cards are often card-disadvantage. Additional goodies include more GP/Bog triggers, reset cavern/vesuva/Chasm, Crop respond to actually save the land that's dying rather than replacing it+mana ramp. Plus they're colored 2 tappers. The advantage adds up quick.

If you go that route, it might finally be worth playing some number of amulet of vigor. Do you think that's too much?

[TimHarding]

Doesn't that also open you up to Wasteland even more if you don't have an Exploration in play?

Yes, so running 10 of them would not be advised. But a couple as crop targets and some help to abuse exploration (and Azusa/Oracle) do some work. It's not revolutionary, but an option.

If you go that route, it might finally be worth playing some number of amulet of vigor. Do you think that's too much?

Amulet isn't worth a space in the UG control build, but who knows the potential if exploration and other mega ramp is being tested. However, at first glance it does appear a little too Goldfishy, since it relies on so many other cards to be relevant.

[TheBoozeCube]

Something I've toyed with in past Exploration Eldrazi attempts has been Simic Growth Chamber/Selesnya Sanctuary. Cheesy bounce lands, borrowed from Bloom Titan, really help abuse Exploration when the deck doesn't want 35+ lands/loam. They create one-card card advantage, that synergizes well with candle and exploration, when those two cards are often card-disadvantage. Additional goodies include more GP/Bog triggers, reset cavern/vesuva/Chasm, Crop respond to actually save the land that's dying rather than replacing it+mana ramp. Plus they're colored 2 tappers. The advantage adds up quick.

This is fascinating. I could definitely see a bounce land as a 1- or 2-of. I really like the idea of Cropping into one of these in response to Wasteland or using it to reset ETB lands instead of spending a Vesuva. I will definitely test this out!

[Mockingbird]

This is fascinating. I could definitely see a bounce land as a 1- or 2-of. I really like the idea of Cropping into one of these in response to Wasteland or using it to reset ETB lands instead of spending a Vesuva. I will definitely test this out!

One thing about playing Kangaroo (it's the name I've used for Titan Bloom since its inception) is that you get to play utility lands and cheat colors into the deck without having to play cards for them.

I did a quick search for utility lands whose activations that could be abused with bouncelands for color splash. The best, at least on paper, looks to be Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree because it could also be activated off Karakas, and it provides blockers. So it may be worth considering if there is room to consider.

[TheBoozeCube]

One thing about playing Kangaroo (it's the name I've used for Titan Bloom since its inception) is that you get to play utility lands and cheat colors into the deck without having to play cards for them.

I did a quick search for utility lands whose activations that could be abused with bouncelands for color splash. The best, at least on paper, looks to be Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree because it could also be activated off Karakas, and it provides blockers. So it may be worth considering if there is room to consider.

Alchemist's Refuge might be interesting too. I think that the main problem you'd start to run into is that these sort of lands would be too inconsistent, since they're useless without the relevant bounceland.

I've been testing a 1x Simic Growth Chamber online. It's still too early to tell, but it's showing definite promise. I especially like being able to rebuy Glimmerpost triggers.

[TheBoozeCube]

If you go that route, it might finally be worth playing some number of amulet of vigor. Do you think that's too much?

I think Candelabra should be sufficient. You're not getting that much ramp off a bounce land (at least, not in comparison to Cloudpost). Plus, you're still not playing as many lands per turn as Titan Bloom, even if you have all your Explorations in play at once.

[Xanthos]

Alchemist's Refuge might be interesting too. I think that the main problem you'd start to run into is that these sort of lands would be too inconsistent, since they're useless without the relevant bounceland.

I've been testing a 1x Simic Growth Chamber online. It's still too early to tell, but it's showing definite promise. I especially like being able to rebuy Glimmerpost triggers.

What land have you been swapping the chamber with? I always like to test new tech.

[TheBoozeCube]

What land have you been swapping the chamber with? I always like to test new tech.

Just a basic Forest.


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[Mockingbird]

Alchemist's Refuge might be interesting too. I think that the main problem you'd start to run into is that these sort of lands would be too inconsistent, since they're useless without the relevant bounceland.

I've been testing a 1x Simic Growth Chamber online. It's still too early to tell, but it's showing definite promise. I especially like being able to rebuy Glimmerpost triggers.

I would suggest Golgari Rot Farm if you're not playing any blue cards because there's a slightly increased chance where you might get to cast Surgical Extraction without paying two life.

Another card the Karoo lands can synergize with is Engineered Explosives, and that *should* be less of a strain than teching utility lands that require a Karoo to activative, although I am testing Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree right now to see how that works.

[J-Funk]

I recently had a terrible idea:

Currently testing Kiora.

I'll report back with findings.

[Barook]

Storm
-3 Maze of Ith, -1 Glacial Chasm, -2 All Is Dust, -2 Ugin, -3 Pithing Needle
+4 Mindbreak Trap, +2 Surgical Extraction +4 Sphere of Resistance
(Note: Tabernacle stays in to hedge against Empty the Warrens. This is a terrible matchup game 1, but very winnable postboard. Be patient and save Crop Rotation as a response to Past in Flames.)

Miracles
-3 Exploration, -1 Maze of Ith, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Bojuka Bog
+3 Krosan Grip, +1 Oblivion Stone, +1 Surgical Extraction

Elves
-3 Pithing Needle, -1 Bojuka Bog, -3 Maze of Ith, -1 Ulamog
+4 Sphere of Resistance, +2 Mindbreak Trap, +1 Oblivion Stone
(Note: I board out Maze because it's not going to save you from a Craterhoof stampede, and you usually have enough time to wipe their board if they're just swinging in with some Elves for a few turns.)

RUG/BUG Delver
-3 Exploration
+2 Surgical Extraction
(Note: This is more for when you are on the play. Surgical comes in primarily for Wasteland, with Force of Will as a secondary target. On the draw, the initial configuration is actually best. Exploration helps overcome tempo lost from their Wastelands and using early land drops for Maze. Bojuka Bog can come out if they don't appear to be playing Snapcaster or Nimble Mongoose.)

UR Delver
-1 Bojuka Bog, -3 Pithing Needle
+2 Sphere of Resistance, +2 Krosan Grip
(Note: You can bring in additional Spheres instead of Grips if they aren't playing Eidolon, although be careful of Null Rod if you do. Spheres are definitely at their best on the play.)

UWR Delver/UWx Stoneblade
-1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -3 Exploration
+1 Oblivion Stone, +3 Krosan Grip

Dredge
-3 Pithing Needle, -2 Maze of Ith, -1 Ulamog
+2 Surgical Extraction, +3 Sphere of Resistance
(Note: One Maze is left to answer a large Grave Troll if they go that route. I'm still not sure about cutting them for Surgical in the non-manaless matchup, as they do well at dealing with Ichorids. In the manaless matchup, however, it might even be worth bringing in the full set of Spheres, as Sphere + Tabernacle is a straight-up hard lock if you can deal with Ichorid.)

Reanimator
-1 Tabernacle, -2 Ugin, -3 Pithing Needle
+2 Surgical Extraction, +3 Krosan Grip
(Note: Pithing Needle is a difficult cut here, but their only target is Griselbrand, although granted it's a strong one. That said, Krosan Grip is more important because it can take out Animate Dead, as well as the Pithing Needles and/or Null Rods they are likely to bring in against you. The only card you really need to truly fear in this matchup is Tidespout Tyrant, as neither Maze nor Karakas can stop it from wrecking your board.)

Sneak and Show
-1 Tabernacle, -1 Bojuka Bog, -2 Maze of Ith, -1 Glacial Chasm
+3 Krosan Grip, +1 Oblivion Stone

OmniTell
-1 Tabernacle, -3 Maze of Ith, -2 Ugin, -2 All Is Dust, -3 Pithing Needle, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Glacial Chasm
+4 Sphere of Safety, +4 Mindbreak Trap, +1 Oblivion Stone, +3 Krosan Grip
(Note: This is one of the worst possible matchups. Game 1 is almost unwinnable unless you can drop Ulamog (blowing up a land) or Emrakul on turn 3 or 4. And it's still pretty bad after board.)

Lands
-1 Tabernacle, -1 Glacial Chasm, -2 Maze of Ith, -2 All Is Dust
+2 Surgical Extraction, +3 Krosan Grip
(Note: This is one of the worst matchups, although it has actually improved since they started playing Dark Depths, since you can use your own Thespian's Stage to copy their Depths. Concede immediately if they establish a recurring Wasteland lock. Time is very much a factor. Postboard, Surgical is there for Loam and/or Wasteland. Pithing Needle priorities are Wasteland --> Engineered Explosives --> Ghost Quarter. I leave in one Maze for Marit Lage in case they've already destroyed our Karakas.)

Death & Taxes
-1 Bojuka Bog, -3 Exploration, -1 Karakas*
+3 Krosan Grip, +1 Oblivion Stone
(Note: This is the most difficult of the "fair" matchups, especially because the only maindeck answers to Phyrexian Revoker are Ulamog and Ugin's +2. I keep going back and forth about cutting Karakas in this matchup. On one hand, it slims you down to 60 and you can usually copy theirs. On the other hand, you don't have access to Karakas unless they have one out.)

Infect
-1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Ulamog, -2 Ugin, -2 All Is Dust, -1 Tabernacle
+3 Krosan Grip, +3 Sphere of Resistance* (on play) / Mindbreak Trap (on draw)

MUD
-1 Tabernacle, -1 Bojuka Bog, -2 All Is Dust, -1 Ugin
+3 Krosan Grip, +1 Oblivion Stone

Hopefully this gives you more a sense of what the board is trying to do. One of the main things to remember is that Exploration is an easy cut in matchups where speed isn't as important as what you need to bring in. Ulamog isn't a pleasant cut, but he isn't as important when you don't need spot removal and speed is critical.

Could you please edit the post with the Jund, Grixis Delver/Pyromancer and Shardless BUG match-ups? I do appreciate the guide alot.

That said, finished my first daily with the deck. Went 2-2, could have won at least one game in each match I lost (Jund and Grixis Pyromancer) because of my inexperience. Looking back, I could have won with better lines (and partly less shitty draws). It's pretty hard to play correctly (hence my misplays) with the numerous lines the deck offers, but it feels very rewarding. I'm still impressed by the sheer raw power the deck offers. I like how you don't have to rely on double for hardcast Titan as you ramp straight into business instead.

Edit: Another thing I noticed in testing is the low number of green sources. How do you feel about it? From a mathematical point, the deck would need at least 10 green sources (instead of the 8 it runs now) to run smooth. Sure, Expedition Map helps, but that seems kinda like a waste.

[Mockingbird]

Edit: Another thing I noticed in testing is the low number of green sources. How do you feel about it? From a mathematical point, the deck would need at least 10 green sources (instead of the 8 it runs now) to run smooth. Sure, Expedition Map helps, but that seems kinda like a waste.

One thing that helps those odds is how long the deck can hold out on colorless alone. The deck can run a long time without green, especially with an early game Maze or Tabernacle (yes, I've done games where I had to lean heavily on them in early game and still limped out with a win). That being said, I also know where running a lot of green mana comes in handy because either A, I had to debate and often did mulligan hands with green spells and no green mana or B, kept a hand that operates on colorless only to draw into green spell after green spell (that happened once). I run 7 green sources (including the current trending miser Karoo land) and I feel comfortable with that myself.

[prgmctan]

Could you please edit the post with the Jund, Grixis Delver/Pyromancer and Shardless BUG match-ups? I do appreciate the guide alot.

That said, finished my first daily with the deck. Went 2-2, could have won at least one game in each match I lost (Jund and Grixis Pyromancer) because of my inexperience. Looking back, I could have won with better lines (and partly less shitty draws). It's pretty hard to play correctly (hence my misplays) with the numerous lines the deck offers, but it feels very rewarding. I'm still impressed by the sheer raw power the deck offers. I like how you don't have to rely on double for hardcast Titan as you ramp straight into business instead.

Edit: Another thing I noticed in testing is the low number of green sources. How do you feel about it? From a mathematical point, the deck would need at least 10 green sources (instead of the 8 it runs now) to run smooth. Sure, Expedition Map helps, but that seems kinda like a waste.

I've been testing with -2 candles and +2 forests.