Lands, in the hands of an experienced player, should be able to kill you fast once it's locked you down.Originally Posted by MechTactical
Also, whilst it's good to know that you learned from your play error, if you suspect slow play, call a judge.
I’m not experienced enough to determine slow play, but it probably was in this case. Although I wouldn’t have called a judge in any case, because this tournament isn’t all that serious, people are playing with proxies and the environment isn’t all that competitive (at least from my perspective), as a beginer I prefer this kind of environment anyway...
Funny thing about that match up was that I really missed a second needle. While I managed to play my lonely needle both games on wasteland, the lands player then just proceeded to “waste” me with ghost quarter. Despite of the recurring land destruction I managed to come over the top (or better to say would have) eventually. Next time I just have to win game 1, then he will slow play himself to death. In any case this meta seems ripe for MB relic, although I don’t know what to cut…
If you are not sure if slow play is occurring you can call a judge and ask them to watch if able to decide if slow play is actually a factor. You can also ask your opponent politely to speed up play
Went 3-1 this weekly magic with this bant list:
// Lands
1 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
3 [A] Tropical Island
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)
2 [R] Tundra
1 [R] Savannah
1 [ZEN] Plains (6)
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
// Spells
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [AVR] Terminus
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [R] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [MMA] Knight of the Reliquary
SB: 2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
Matchups were American Delver, 4C Delver (loss), Death and Taxes, Goblins.
Loss was to some insane hands on 4C Delver's part. x2 waste, x2 fow, x2 daze, x2 pyromancer in x2 games. Didn't sight Stp in game 2, but I feel that it was necessary to win this match.
@Rock, how are you boarding vs the combo matchups with that sideboard? It seems like you're just giving up the storm matchup in favor of having a better matchup vs infect, elves, and sneak. Is a counter package just not good enough for the sideboard with the lowered maindeck blue count?
Not giving up so much as changing it. Going with Surgicals, Revokers, STP (for the bee or lifegain) over the traditional options.
ALl that being said, I'm strongly considering Trickbind for this open. My losses post-bant acceptance have all been avoidable with trickbind, which I have held back on, and trickbind further protects a greedier manabase.
Unsure on Trickbind or Repeal, and I think Trickbind is the safer bet with terminus/stp covering what repeal was mostly aimed at. Additionally, Trickbind would cover the storm matchup as well.
Trickbind vs Stifle? How bad has the extra mana been in the early game? I imagine being able to go T2 cloudpost and protect it comes up fairly often.
Additionally, Trinket Mage. Since you're now going "all-in" on the Trinket Mage plan, is a 1-of EE and/or Pithing Needle not worth the spots in the 75? They're both really good in certain spots and having 4 virtual copiies of them seems really good.
Trickbind can't be countered, except by blind CB on 2 and spells that see no play in Legacy. Yes, 1v2 mana is sometimes relevant, but having the capacity to just blank Tendrils or Empty. In addition, it also blanks Miracle triggers, planeswalker activations, Top and DRS.
For all those going to the legacy open tomorrow good luck! 😀
Hi,
Long time reader here. I played UG 12 Post in our LGS yesterday evening (just a small 16ppl event unfortunately). Ended up 3-1 after 4 rounds of swiss.
Here is the list I played and a small report on how everything worked out:
Lands (26):
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
1 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
Creatures (7):
4 Primeval Titan
1 Trinket Mage
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells (27):
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Crop Rotation
3 Show and Tell
3 Expedition Map
3 Trickbind
2 Pithing Needle
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Repeal
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Sideboard (15):
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
3 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
Round 1 (against Punishing Blue) 0-2
G1:
He wins the roll and opens with Land, Mox Diamond, Dark Confidant. Not too great for me as it will be unanswered for a couple of turns and draw him a lot of cards. I get to resolve a Divining Top and start digging and ramping with an Expedition Map. He lands a Chalice@1 which hurts me REALLY bad as my hand consists of a lot of 1drops, but i can probably handle it with my Repeal and get things going. Unfortunately he also drops a Gaddock Teeg which blanks my Repeal and i am stuck on Lands, uncastable spells and a Top. On top of that (hahaha.. bad joke inc), my Top only reveals me more Lands and Brainstorms, Needles, and so on. Even fetching twice does not help and I am beaten to death by Gaddock and the Confidant.
G2:
I have to Mull to 5 and keep an okay hand which has 3 Lands, a Brainstorm and a Show and Tell. He opens up again with T1 Confidant into Wasteland, Wasteland, Wasteland + DRS + Lili. He denies me my third mana for Show and Tell and as my draws were Emrakul, Eye of Ugin, Ulamog and a Pithing Needle (which gets Abrupt Decay'ed within an eyeblink), I am forced to tap out after he resolves Life from the Loam and Slaughter Games for my Titans </3.
Summary:
As I am not too experienced with the deck, I am unsure if I am making the correct plays all the time. Thats why I am writing up the reports for some nice discussions about the key cards in the MUs etc. I guess in this case I just had some bad luck / draws and ended up losing. I don't think that this matchup should be unwinnable, although it felt like it :P
Round 2 (against Reanimator) 2-0
G1:
My opponent reanimates Griseldaddy in his 3rd turn and draws 7 cards. I draw a Pithing Needle and at least stop him from drawing cards like a sir. 2 Back to Back Glimmerposts + a Primeval Titan off a Cavern keep me alive while I am slowly but surely getting to huge amounts of mana while removing his GY (containing Iona and another Griseldaddy) with Bojuka Bog off my Titan. Shortly after that, Griseldaddy finds a nice friend in a Tidespout Tyrant, but he does not have any castable spells left to bounce my board. I am going all in and attack with my Titan to get Glacial Chasm. Indeed this buys me another turn as he does not find a castable spell and I am able to resolve Ulamog for both Griselbrand and the Tyrant and close out the game. This pretty much made up for all the bad luck I had in Round 1 I guess :D
G2:
I got Karakas, Relic and a Flusterstorm in hand and feel quite confortable. My Relic gets FoW'ed thoug and as I found a Surgical Extraction I am not too unhappy with this. Afterwards my opponent seems to have no action going. Fine for me as I hit my landdrops (no Cloudposts, though). Finally he finds an Entomb for Sire of Insanity and wants to Exhume. I Crop Rotate as a response which gets FoW'ed. My Flusterstorm is enough to stop FoW and the Exhume and i get Bojuka Bog to remove Sire (my opp seemed light on discard/entomb effects). I then resolve Primeval Titan (off a Karakas, Cavern, Bojuka Bog, Glimmerpost, Tropical Island, Island O.o.. weirdest 6 mana for Titan ever..) I get up to critical amounts of mana and close out the game.
Summary:
I think I got really really lucky in G1. After boarding we should be able to win against Reanimator.
Round 3 (against Storm) 2-1
G1:
Long story short, I end up Brainstorming twice, spinning my Top and Fetching twice but there is nothing which would stop him going off... He does and we move on to sideboarding.
G2:
We play the Draw-Go game. He is cantripping and I am spinning my Top (floating a Trickbind) and hitting landdrops. He then decides to combo off, discards my Flusterstorm but gets blown out by activating Top and Trickbind his Storm trigger. I assume he was quite new on storm/did not know about Trickbind being in my deck as he was rather surprised. He did not have enough mana to flashback Tendrils in the same turn and Primeval Titan (getting Bojuka Bog) seals the deal.
G3:
I get an opening 7 with Surgical Extraction, Trickbind, Flusterstorm and a Trinisphere.. Turn 4, I land the 3Sphere because i kept up mana all the time for my disruption spells. I even had U available after the 3Sphere just in case he could handle it and go off. But he did not and SnT -> Titan -> ramp wins me this Match. Again all i saw was a bunch of Ponders and Brainstorms.
Summary:
As long as he does not storm too fast, we should be able to compete here. Our disruption package seems well suited against storm. Especially with Trickbind... I really love this card :D
Round 4 (against Jund) 2-0
G1:
I win the roll and he starts with a DRS into Confidant which gets hit by Repeal. His Bloodbraid hits my Titan right before the turn I would be able to cast it. Thankfully, good guy Divining Top shows me another one and I get to resolve it, ramp up and .. thats pretty much it. He is not able to recover and I throw big dudes at him.
G2:
Again T1 DRS but this time he resolves Hymn to Tourach T2. Hits perfect (Cloudpost + Titan) and casts Surgical Extracion targeting my Cloudpost. I am pretty sure that this is a HUGE misplay as I think he should have removed the Titans. His 2 Wastelands get answered by Trickbind and Crop Rotation respectively and I resolve Show and Tell for another Titan which ramps me up to Ugin... Ugin > fair matchups as he sweeps his whole board (except for the lands). He never recovers and concedes the match.
Summary:
Titan is HUGE against fair decks I think. Maybe I am wrong but I remember some guys stating that you should board them out after G1. Why? If you land it, the game is pretty much over..
I am hoping for advice/ discussions! =)
Sorry for possible mistakes in my grammar/english as I am not a native speaker (I'm from Germany). Best of luck to all the guys playing 12Post today!
Greets
Marcel
nice list, probably I would play the same if I didn't use white...
one note: you cannot use repeal on chalice@1, its cmc is 0, so repeal would have cmc 1
You're true ofc with the Repeal... Well it was blanked anyway so I didnt get to make that misplay :D
I am unsure if I will add White soon or FoW in the SB. I was also thinking about some Disfigures, as an unanswered Confidant or DRS can do some work against us..
He had Trickbind in his list: one of that card's many, many uses. In a pinch, he still could have used Repeal until Gaddock Teeg came down.nice list, probably I would play the same if I didn't use white...
one note: you cannot use repeal on chalice@1, its cmc is 0, so repeal would have cmc 1
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
Thx for the report Voiceofthedead! I like your list. mine is very close. Some comments to your report.
Gaddock shuts down both Repeal and EE, but otherwise an maindeck EE could have helped. What do you think about it and additionally a second Trinket Mage? I like the second TM over cards like the second Needle and the second Candelabra, because they are a bit situational. What's maybe even more important, is the additional virtual copy of SDT, which is pivotal to have.Round 1 (against Punishing Blue) 0-2
G1:
He wins the roll and opens with Land, Mox Diamond, Dark Confidant. Not too great for me as it will be unanswered for a couple of turns and draw him a lot of cards. I get to resolve a Divining Top and start digging and ramping with an Expedition Map. He lands a Chalice@1 which hurts me REALLY bad as my hand consists of a lot of 1drops, but i can probably handle it with my Repeal and get things going. Unfortunately he also drops a Gaddock Teeg which blanks my Repeal and i am stuck on Lands, uncastable spells and a Top. On top of that (hahaha.. bad joke inc), my Top only reveals me more Lands and Brainstorms, Needles, and so on. Even fetching twice does not help and I am beaten to death by Gaddock and the Confidant.
Very unlucky. Your list is at the top end of Wasteland protection, so pretty unlucky as said.G2:
I have to Mull to 5 and keep an okay hand which has 3 Lands, a Brainstorm and a Show and Tell. He opens up again with T1 Confidant into Wasteland, Wasteland, Wasteland + DRS + Lili. He denies me my third mana for Show and Tell and as my draws were Emrakul, Eye of Ugin, Ulamog and a Pithing Needle (which gets Abrupt Decay'ed within an eyeblink), I am forced to tap out after he resolves Life from the Loam and Slaughter Games for my Titans </3.
Concerning the SB Trinisphere. Would you consider Sphere of Resistance instead? I like it, because it is cheaper and we dont need Trini against Omnitell anymore. What I like about the Spheres in general, is that they are colorless and can be cast of Locus lands.
BBB
I mentioned this before, but it still seems to me that Post lacks a strong T1, T2 opening.
Consider
T1 wasteland-vial, T2 Thalia
T1 Mox-Scrubland-GSZ->Shaman. T2 Knight Reliq.
T1 Shaman T2 Lilly
T1 Bloodmoon
T2 Exhume
T2 counterbalance
In most cases I think we hope multiple posts make up for this in turns 3-4 while dodging wastelands and other nonsense. The Tim Harding deck featuring woodland lot may have tried to get a stronger opening.
Most of our t1/t2 are crouched in the defensive position with a needle or trickbind in hand. Is there another way out of this? Something more forward and aggressive that plays to a titan or something worse on T1, T2? L
Last edited by Ponders; 12-01-2015 at 08:37 PM.
Honestly, the way to have more aggressive Turn 1 or Turn 2 plays is simply to play a different deck. This deck trades those early turns for inevitability: if you take enough turns, you will win. The question is how many turns that is. There really is no better answer: Tim's list that you mentioned is about as aggressive as it gets without running Exploration or Mox Diamond.
The other thing you have to remember is that you have to make adjustments. If where you play features a lot of really fast decks like you mentioned, your list needs to reflect that. You need to adjust based on the play or draw: leading Cloudpost on the draw against an unknown opponent is almost always a terrible idea. That first list, for example, is a D&T deck. Okay, what do you need to do? Fetch a basic or two if you don't have Crop Rotation backup and go for Show and Tell. You know it will resolve, so get your dude in play (likely Primeval Titan). Even if your Titan eats Swords to Plowshares, you have a huge advantage that has just blasted through D&T's disruption. Is Maverick a thing in your area? Pithing Needle can help. Trickbind can buy you time. Engineered Explosives wipes their board. Turn 1 Blood Moon is annoying, but that means you're almost certainly playing some kind of Stompy variant. You can get rid of that card for as little as one mana, although in fairness that's harder to do if you're on the draw. Reanimator is what it is: there is more than enough Turn 0, Turn 1, and Turn 2 graveyard hate that's been printed: run some of it. Got Elves players? Pithing Needle can stop Wirewood Symbiote or Quirion Ranger. Phyrexian Revoker can stop Heritage Druid and Birchlore Rangers. Cursed Totem bricks all of their guys until they get Reclamation Sage. Grafdigger's Cage stops Green Sun's Zenith and Natural Order, and it also works against Dredge and Reanimator. Finally, Trickbind stops Craterhoof Behemoth from killing you, as does Crop Rotation into Glacial Chasm. Counterbalance is annoying, but if you can resolve a Turn 1 Sensei's Divining Top or Expedition Map, or otherwise get these cards down before your opponent plays a Top of their own, it is very difficult for you to lose out of that spot.
Legacy is one of the most diverse formats out there. You can't cover everything, so you have to cover what you expect to play against. Your own personal play style matters, too. And sometimes your opponent nut draws or you just draw blanks and you lose. I lost a game against Miracles after taking 45 points of damage from a single Vendilion Clique. Sometimes it happens.
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In other news, I've been tinkering a little bit with Rock Lee's white splash. The last list he posted has 62 cards and I'm allergic to anything over 60 cards that isn't EDH, so I pared it down to 60. Trinket Mage felt a little clunky to me: like, I felt I could do better in that slot since I wasn't running Engineered Explosives, Grafdigger's Cage or Chalice of the Void. I put in my favorite pet card, Trickbind instead and it felt good, as it almost always does. The white splash has a greedier mana base than we're used to and I feel like Trickbind needs to be in there to help protect it, in addition to the 1001 other uses it has. Trinket Mage may still be "right", but I think it needs a more diverse selection of artifacts in that case. Terminus and StP feel really good, though, and they're fantastic against Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor garbage: I ran 3 in the board instead of 2, and those two white cards won me several games.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
I've been experimenting with lotus petal, and very rarely its been a dead card (exception, late game). Its wasteland resistant, any color you need and ramp for zero mana. Its a low priority counterspell target. Just playing around with it atm, took out the candels which is never my first choice because it seems to me that candels win games. That said, win or win more, im not sure. I added a 4th snt, and 2 ancient tombs just because I'm already skewing blue and aiming to improve the early game.
While I get your point about meta-gaming, I just don't see the results born out statistically for top 8's.
This week I sold out on mono green and went with a modified list of the MTG daily winner Eli12.
// Lands
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
3 [M15] Forest (3)
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [GTC] Thespian's Stage
1 [CS] Dark Depths
2 [R] Savannah
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya
2 [BNG] Courser of Kruphix
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [M14] Scavenging Ooze
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [M10] Pithing Needle
1 [ROE] All Is Dust
2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [M15] Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [R] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 [LG] Sylvan Library
SB: 1 [C14] Containment Priest
My matchups were Reliquary Retreat, Mono Blue control, Storm. All three matches went to game 3 with me closely losing game 1, and white and/or K Grip dominating games 2/3.
I was quite surprised at how effective Surgical and Crop Rotation were at holding off storm to avoid turn 1-2 kills, and then relying on the bears to hold down the fort.
Sylvan Library was insane in all of my wins, and showed up far more often than its 1-of merited. Likely deserving another slot, possibly in the main.
Rock, how did the new Bant list work out for you in the Open?
Can we get a rundown of the matchups and results, and an explanation of how well some of the experimental cards worked out for you? I'm particularly curious about Knight of the Reliquary and if it was worth running or not.
No Candelabra?
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