Anyone else see this 4x Lotus Cobra list? Looks so spicy.
http://mtgpulse.com/event/26963#353932
Walking Ballista - yes. I tested with it in a more or less standard UG trickbind list. I feel it gives the deck a little bit of everything it lacks: redundancy, a new ping ability, extra creature, fetch-ability, manasink. Not much as a stand alone card, i agree. Personally i compare it with a taxing effect. Mostly it forces the opponent to react to it, especially if u are generating cloudmana, but it can sting at 2, 4 cmc as well, depending on the matchup. Despite being naturally weak against combo it allows subtle plays such as sacking against bridge from below and similar nonsense. I'm not sold, but my body count went up...
It's a decent card but overall what is it going to do against bad matchups? That's usually my first question when a new card comes out and looks like it might fit the shell. Only big benefit is a way to deal with someone that goes wide with creatures or if you get one out after someone Ad nauseam low enough to kill them. Other nice piece is that its color burn damage. Prevents Mother of Runes from stopping it. I feel this card only works decently in a trinket mage build. Outside of that it's just another clunky card which we have enough of already.
I tried a few Walking Ballistas in my deck just to see what it does, and my conclusion is similar: This could work in a UG list with Trinket Mage, just because you don't have good removal in UG and you can fetch it with Trinket Mage. Maybe this could work even better in a colorless shell, closer to MUD - Walking Ballista is probably playable in MUD, and colorless lists have usually more mana and need removal. In other lists it's just not good enough - in W or B you have better removal, and it's just a very clunky card.
He had another 5-0 League with this deck, so this deck probably deserves some consideration.
The list is very different from most traditional lists. It has some similarities with my own lists and with the NicFit/8-Post hybrid lists (like the last one Kassari was testing): All these lists are lower to the ground, and don't just rely on casting Primeval Titan.
All these lists have an early ramp plan besides the typical lategame plan with Titan and Posts: I play Mox Diamond and have Dryard Arbor and Deathrite to fetch with GSZ, NicFit-Post has the NicFit Engine with Veteran Explorer, he has Lotus Cobras and also Arbor and Noble Hierarch to fetch with GSZ. I haven't tried that, don't know how good Lotus Cobra works - i imagine it might be slightly unreliable, but it could still lead to some explosives starts. This deck can probably play Turn 3 Primeval Titan rather often (and without Cloudposts), for example:
T1 Forest, GSZ->Arbor
T2 Forest, Lotus Cobra
T3 Fetch = 6 Mana for Primeval Titan
My own lines for a Turn 3 Primeval Titan usually involve at least 1 Cloudpost - and traditional decks probably need Candelabra.
The one problem with that line: His deck is only playing 3 fetchlands - i don't think that's optimal, there are many reasons to play more than that, and Lotus Cobra is certainly one of them.
I like Knight of the Reliquary, for the same reasons i like it in my own lists - he is playing Dark Depths, and going Knight->Marit Lage is just a very strong alternative win condition against many decks.
I'm not sure about the TKS, but they haven seen play in some lists, and they are his only maindeck combo hate. That's another problem: He is playing 2 Knights and 4 Crop Rotations, but the strongest anti-combo lands with Bojuka Bog and Glacial Chasm only in the sideboard. Maybe this is a meta call, i don't know.
I miss Tireless Tracker in this list, and i think it would be pretty good, especially in grindy games, but that's my personal preference.
Just 4 StP and no mass-removal is interesting, but with that many creatures and an engine completely relying on creatures, it's probably better not to include cards like Terminus.
The sideboard is interesting and imo needs some work. He could probably play 1 Rec Sage instead of the 3rd Krosan Grip. I don't really like Relic and Tormods Crypt as graveyard hate, i think there are better options (Surgical or Leyline of the Void or Faerie Macabre - also, with 4 GSZ you could play Scavenging Ooze, probably in the maindeck). 2 Chalice is interesting - i tried Chalice as a sideboard card a few months ago, i had less 1-drops than him, and it was still sometimes very awkward. I'm not sure i like that - whenever Chalice somes in, you will have some 1-drops you really want in the matchup too. On the other hand, Lands does something similar, they play Crop Rotation and also board in Chalice, both cards can be strong against the same combo decks, so maybe Chalice is just so strong it's still the best option. I'm working on a list with maindeck Chalice mostly without 1-drops.
I'm missing some of the more typical anti-combo cards for WG in this sideboard: Gaddock Teeg and Ethersworn Canonist.
Overall, i like the direction this deck is taking, and i think it is probably better than the traditional lists, but i think it does need some work. Maybe i will test this deck and/or a different version of this at some point (i think the most defining card in this list is Lotus Cobra, and i haven't tested that at all so far).
Hi Guys,
You may want to check my MUD Brews of the UG Post (MUD Post)
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13389&d=278519&f=LE
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13645&d=280305&f=LE (Black MUD Post)
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14091&d=283782&f=LE
And here's my latest Build for the deck, I also posted a reply on the MUD(Metalworker) thread because someone wanted to ask what they think of the deck.
I think this decklist belongs originally here in Turbo Eldrazi thread.
Current and latest Build:
[28 Lands]
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Maze of Ith
2 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
[12 Creatures]
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
[16 Artifacts]
4 Grim Monolith
4 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Forcefield
[5 Planeswalkers]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Karn Liberated
[Sideboard]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 All Is Dust
1 Avarice Totem
So I haven't 12posted for a few months now...let alone play legacy. :-( Time flies!
There is a chance I'll be playing at the SCG classic this Sunday. Is there any new technology worth considering? The only thing work considering is Walking Ballista, but I don't think it's necessary unless your running an ancient stirrings build.
i just blew out a loam player with ballista. He was drawing too much with library while he had a lock on me with lili. we discussed it later and he said he didn't expect direct damage from me. He went down to 3 life. i'm currently testing 2 ballistas with trinket. It's slow but I often drop it for 2 or 4. You can still pump it later with excess mana. I had situations (under Ugin mana) when a ballista was able to hold off a superior board - kill-pump-kill.
EDIT
Here's my current list:
Land (26)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
2x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva
Creature (10)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Trinket Mage
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2x Walking Ballista
Instant (13)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation
2x Moment's Peace
3x Trickbind
Artifact (7)
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
2x Pithing Needle
4x Sensei's Divining Top
Sorcery (4)
4x Show and Tell
Sideboard (15)
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
1x Oblivion Stone
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Warping Wail
I'm doing quite well online. It maybe a specific meta, but i've played against most archetypes and it's been the one UG build i'm content with ATM (there are flex slots of course). I'm trying to simulate the "Ugin effect" with ballista and MP mainboard, while trickbind + kozilek are MB combo hate. Kozilek continues to impress me. I've tutored for him over Ulamog more than i thought i would. He always draws me into answers - finishers while being a huge control freak/threat. I think he makes trickbind much better. Ballista is still an undecided thing, but i think he may be playable.
Last edited by MechTactical; 02-18-2017 at 02:15 PM.
I played in the SCG classic today, I was a coward and didn't 12post. :-(
The match to my right was a 12post vs miracles...There was a 20 minute deck check followed by a entourage of judges talking with the 12 post player. It turns out that one of the cards in the deck was a counterfeit?! I asked the judge afterwards what card it was and they said cavern of souls! Holy crap! I wish I could have talked to the 12post player afterwards, but I didn't get a chance to... I did see the walking ballista against miracles though. Seemed awesome!
Is there a reason the U/G version doesn't play oblivion stone? I know it blows up you're own pithing needles and candelabras, but it's overall cheaper to use than ugin when you use the mana spread over two turns. I just think having a faster board wipe would be clutch against delver decks. You could run it in a build with more crop rotations/trickbinds and less needles. There's so many times I didn't have enough mana for ugin before I died, I just think it would be worth a shot. I've also considered Boompile, since it's a colorless board wipe for only 4 mana (the problem being you flip a coin so there's a lot of variance there.) Still, its low enough CMC that you could run it out there, maybe fail on the flip a few times and probably be fine for a while until you get it.
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
I've been swapping between o-stone / perilous vault since i started playing the deck. O-stone is vulnerable against decay (that's why i stopped playing it MB), both are weak against artifact hate, stifle, needle/revoker (okay the latter is true for Ugin as well, but they usually don't name Ugin until it's to late). Simply playing more creatures MB helps out a lot i think.
I really started thinking about utilizing Walking Ballista for removal and another body to toss around. The best strategy I can figure is still under a Trinket Mage type build. 2 feels like a good number to run because of the complex casting cost. Below is a decklist i've done some goldfishing with and feels pretty solid. Doesn't play that clunky, good toolbox features, a bit weak to counter magic unless you can get a Cavern up naming wizard. Feels like most people would allow trinket to go off and then counter the artifact that gets played. I am also using Trophy Mage, This allows to pull decent toolbox pieces like Oblivion Stone, Crucible of Worlds, and Trinisphere. I like the idea of tossing down a mage to dig for a artifact to give you the edge and then having a body for later game. Interestingly, this build could also just replace the Mages for Ancient Stirrings and get almost as good or arguably better card selection. You lose a body but you gain card filtering.
:Turbo Mages:
LAND - 26
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Vesuva
SPELLS - 22
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Pithing Needle
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Crop Rotation
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Expedition Map
2 All Is Dust
4 Brainstorm
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
CREATURES - 12
2 Trinket Mage
2 Trophy Mage
4 Tropical Island
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Walking Ballista
Sideboard - 15
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Krosan Grip
4 Show and Tell
3 Surgical Extraction
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Trinisphere
My meta is currently filled with combo, some Aggro, and very little control. I'm finding that my list performs okay but not as well as I would like. Yes I still have some ways to go because I still make a misplay from time to time. (Only been in the magic community for a year). However, I haven't gone negative at any local tournaments yet. I usually break even at 2-2 or sometimes I'll manage a 3-1 but can't manage to hit 3rd or 4th place. The local meta has a high variance, here are the decks:
Sneak and Snow (2)
BR Reanimator (3)
UB Reanimator (1)
Painter (1)
Aluren (1)
Food Chain (1)
Lands (2)
Elves (2)
Infect (2)
Burn (1)
Miracles (1)
Grixis Delver (2)
And there are a couple fringe decks that people play from time to time, but I usually have a good matchup in those. Now, I'm wondering if there are any tweaks that can be made to my deck so it is more prepared against such a combo-heavy meta. Without any further jargon:
Legend
1 x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Instant
4 x Crop Rotation
4 x Brainstorm
Land
2 x Vesuva
1 x Forest
1 x Glacial Chasm
1 x Bojuka Bog
3 x Misty Rainforest
4 x Cloudpost
1 x Tundra
1 x Cavern of Souls
1 x Plains
4 x Glimmerpost
2 x Windswept Heath
1 x Eye of Ugin
2 x Tropical Island
1 x Karakas
1 x Savannah
Enchantment
2 x Song of the Dryads
Artifact
4 x Sensei's Divining Top
3 x Pithing Needle
Creature
1 x World Breaker
4 x Primeval Titan
Sorcery
4 x Terminus
2 x Preordain
4 x Show and Tell
Sideboard
3 x Krosan Grip
1 x Pulse of Murasa
1 x Surgical Extraction
1 x Spell Pierce
1 x Rest in Peace
3 x Leyline of Sanctity
1 x Cursed Totem
1 x Faerie Macabre
2 x Trinisphere
1 x Moment's Peace
I have been trying to jam a RG build off and on for a while. I, too, just returned from a long vacation with RG Combo Lands, and want to try something out like this again. In my experience, having 2-4 Pithing Needles in the 75 is very helpful. I own the deck on MTGO, and often T1 Pithing Needle on Wasteland has won me games. Later in the MU, it can be nice to fend off Lily, Dark Depths (if you are not playing it), Port, etc. I would certainly consider them. I like where this build is going, and will slap together what I can from it to test next week (do not own Spledid Reclemation or Moment's Peace, but may try and pick them up). Would love to hear about how you progress with this deck. There is a lot of BUG Deathrite Shaman, DnT and Delver in my meta, so the P.Fire tech seems good. I was running Kozileks Return, essentially in place of the Moments Peace, and it was treating me rather well. Could be good SB tech too. If I were to take this list out today I would probably do something like:
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Pithing Needle
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Krosan Grip
2 Splendid Reclamation
and some number of Pithing in the main, maybe 2, and 2 in the side.
Just found this list: http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD00613T/ it went 5-1 in a 59 person tournament. I like the inclusion of 'Planar Bridge'. Anyone have any thoughts on the list? I feel as if it could be a little more refined.
I don't hate it. I've been thinking of trying to utilize Planar Bridge somewhere. I'm not a fan of sliding the Depths/Stage combo in, but it could be a stylistic difference as I know some people here like that.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
Back to the Legacy scene from an extended Hospitalization and convalensence. Went undeafeated yesterday with this list:
// Lands
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [BFZ] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ALA] Island (2)
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [AER] Walking Ballista
// Spells
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [GP] Repeal
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
2 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
2 [US] Show and Tell
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [IA] Brainstorm
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
Enjoying Walking Ballista immensely. Relic was a beast every matchup. Might go to 3. Sideboard is pretty open-ended still.
Very interesting list, how are you using walking ballista in general? When are you casting it?
Also, this is more of a question about 12-post in general but how are you guys dealing with Monastery Mentor? I've been having some trouble recently fighting miracle decks because of this. Gone are the days where playing lands just won you the game.
12-post Discord: https://discord.gg/QxYVg3g
There are a lot of one-ofs that I disagree with as cards and on the main/sideboard placement, but this list looks like one that could do well with the right matchups. I haven't gotten around to testing Planar Bridge and would like to know how it worked out for this person.
I find myself using Expedition Map for Glacial Chasm a lot more, and I run 3 Swords to Plowshares which are sometimes enough. It also helps to never keep hands without a Cloudpost - you don't have time to mess around digging for them and Counterbalance can stop Crop Rotations and Maps that show up too late. I also have Tabernacle + New Emrakul to wipe their board un-counterably from behind a Chasm.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
Yeah, Mentor is extremely obnoxious. Your best options are probably Dismember or Spatial Contortion, although with the latter there's obviously the risk that they can pump Mentor high enough to get past it. Otherwise, your regularly scheduled board wipes and Tabernacle are givens. Elephant Grass is also a card that comes in and out of a lot of our lists: both Griselbrand and Marit Lage are scared of tall grass.
EDIT: If you suspect a Mentor plan, you can be less afraid of Counterbalance: mana spent using Top and attempting to stop mostly CMC 1 spells is mana spent not casting spells that kill you. The chances of at least some, if not all, of the CBs coming out are actually pretty high. It's a calculated risk, but on a Mentor plan the goal is basically to just rush you down before you can set anything up.
Last edited by Zotmaster; 03-09-2017 at 10:55 PM.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
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