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  1. #1041
    Freedom is just as essential as air
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by zahori View Post
    You know, I have really appreciated how much you have done for the community behind this deck, as well as admired the many builds you have shared with us. Yet, I'm fairly disappointed that you simply watched me play wrong and chose to leave instead of sharing what you would have done. I'll keep on streaming and posting videos of my face palming strategies, and I welcome everyone to shred them to pieces. My goal is not to maximize my viewers, it's to try and get better by showing what I do and hopefully open conversation about how others would have played the hands I am dealt.
    I watched this video, and here are some suggestions:
    1. In response to Liliana of the Veil's first discard, I would have used Brainstorm to find the best possible card to discard. However, Show and tell looked to be the right choice in that situation because you didn't have a Titan to Show and Tell in, although I might have discarded the Glacial Chasm instead if I'd seen it with Brainstorm.
    2. I'm not a big fan of neglecting Glimmerpost. I think you should have kept it and used it game 1.
    3. Always assume Wasteland, even if you don't see it game 1 unless you're playing against combo.
    4. When you Crop Rotate your Karakas away game 2, that was a right move, but that was the wrong time. Crop Rotation is an instant. There are two times you activate it: 1. In response to your land being destroyed or 2. End of their turn.
    5. Show and Tell is not for Legendary Eldrazi unless you are desperate, which honestly, you weren't. Digging to cast Kozilek would have reversed the Hymn's damage. Granted it worked, but it working in that case does not entail that it's a good move. I.E. if he'd had the Liliana before you swung with Kozilek, you'd gotten no benefit from Show and Tell.

  2. #1042
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Mockingbird View Post
    I watched this video, and here are some suggestions:
    1. In response to Liliana of the Veil's first discard, I would have used Brainstorm to find the best possible card to discard. However, Show and tell looked to be the right choice in that situation because you didn't have a Titan to Show and Tell in, although I might have discarded the Glacial Chasm instead if I'd seen it with Brainstorm.
    2. I'm not a big fan of neglecting Glimmerpost. I think you should have kept it and used it game 1.
    3. Always assume Wasteland, even if you don't see it game 1 unless you're playing against combo.
    4. When you Crop Rotate your Karakas away game 2, that was a right move, but that was the wrong time. Crop Rotation is an instant. There are two times you activate it: 1. In response to your land being destroyed or 2. End of their turn.
    5. Show and Tell is not for Legendary Eldrazi unless you are desperate, which honestly, you weren't. Digging to cast Kozilek would have reversed the Hymn's damage. Granted it worked, but it working in that case does not entail that it's a good move. I.E. if he'd had the Liliana before you swung with Kozilek, you'd gotten no benefit from Show and Tell.
    Hold on a moment while I gasp outwardly. Mockingbird isn't trolling and actually giving good advice?

    I saw a few of these, but more subtle plays are where the devil is really in with this deck. Optimizing opportunities to draw certain cards, or look with top. Doing things like not mapping for cloudpost and playing it with 3 mana in play and 2 pithing needles on wasteland against their non-pressure.

    Don't take my poking negatively. If I was disgusted or intent on jeering, then I wouldn't have posted at all. I am excited people are gaining experience with the deck, and was reminded that the learning curve for the deck is significant.

  3. #1043
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Just to clarify, I'm not offended, I just want to have discussion about actual game situations. I set up the jund clip this morning, but I'd like to rematch it before replying with my thought process. That said, I do remember the brainstorm vs, show and tell discard. My goal with that decision was to set up the bonfire in my hand with the brainstorm, which is the line of play I followed. I did not value the show and tell at the time since Lilliana was already in play.


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  4. #1044

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    the wife is working tonight and i will have my daughter(so it may get interrupted). but i am going to try to stream a couple matches sometime between 8 and 9 pm, est time. http://www.twitch.tv/dneeley

  5. #1045
    Freedom is just as essential as air
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by NEELEY View Post
    the wife is working tonight and i will have my daughter(so it may get interrupted). but i am going to try to stream a couple matches sometime between 8 and 9 pm, est time. http://www.twitch.tv/dneeley
    Try to record it. I'm not going to be able to make it.

  6. #1046

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Mockingbird View Post
    Try to record it. I'm not going to be able to make it.
    if i can figure it out, i will :)

  7. #1047
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Twitch automatically records the stream, afterwards you can make highlights from the channel's dashboard.



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  8. #1048

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by zahori View Post
    Twitch automatically records the stream, afterwards you can make highlights from the channel's dashboard.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Actually I remember getting an email from Twitch that they were turning the automatic recording off and that you have to turn it on.
    Edit: Go to settings and then down to "Archive Broadcasts" and then turn "Automatically archive my broadcasts" on :)

    Also, been following this thread for a few weeks...went back and slowly read it from page 1 to the current page on my lunches/after work. Currently assembling the deck, just need a few more pieces and I've got Rock Lee's latest list (I'll pick up the commander card at my LGS this FNM hopefully). Looking forward to starting to jam this deck to learn the nuances...I know it will take a while to master...so I'm considering grabbing the cards on Modo too so I can get some easier/more broad practice in.

    Rock, I presume you cut a Trinket Mage to move the 4th S&T into the main? Were you also suggesting moving Bane into the main? Curious what you would cut from there.

    I can't remember if there was discussion over the numbers on Bonfire, so forgive me if there was - but how does the 3 feel? Have you ever felt like you would draw it enough at 2? I assume you've tested the different configurations on the #s and came to the conclusion that 3 was optimal...just asking because it might be a slot to cut 1 to make room for another pithing needle in a Wasteland heavier meta.

    Cheers! Really appreciate all the work in this thread :)

  9. #1049
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Mockingbird View Post
    I watched this video, and here are some suggestions:
    1. In response to Liliana of the Veil's first discard, I would have used Brainstorm to find the best possible card to discard. However, Show and tell looked to be the right choice in that situation because you didn't have a Titan to Show and Tell in, although I might have discarded the Glacial Chasm instead if I'd seen it with Brainstorm.
    2. I'm not a big fan of neglecting Glimmerpost. I think you should have kept it and used it game 1.
    3. Always assume Wasteland, even if you don't see it game 1 unless you're playing against combo.
    4. When you Crop Rotate your Karakas away game 2, that was a right move, but that was the wrong time. Crop Rotation is an instant. There are two times you activate it: 1. In response to your land being destroyed or 2. End of their turn.
    5. Show and Tell is not for Legendary Eldrazi unless you are desperate, which honestly, you weren't. Digging to cast Kozilek would have reversed the Hymn's damage. Granted it worked, but it working in that case does not entail that it's a good move. I.E. if he'd had the Liliana before you swung with Kozilek, you'd gotten no benefit from Show and Tell.
    1. I definitely wanted to capitalize on the brainstorm-->bonfire of the damned to wipe out liliana and potentially his board.
    2. Definitely should have kept Glimmerpost over crop, that was just a misplay on my part for sure.
    3. Fair enough.
    4. Here was my reasoning for breaking a pretty decent rule of thumb: I needed to both shuffle away the top 3 cards of my library AND cast a main phase brainstorm so that I could attempt to hit my 3rd land drop. Crop rotation was my means to doing that, if I do it end of turn then I lose the opportunity to make my land drop that turn. I think that this is worth the risk of him having the 2nd wasteland.
    5. I disagree with your assessment here. Opponent clearly did not have liliana in hand, since they would have surely cast it by now. S&T the Kozilek there gave them a one turn window to find an answer. I much prefer placing my opponent on a one turn clock than allowing them to come back in the game. My board was superior to theirs since I would have 2 cloudposts and top in play, IMO, but I still want to make them have an answer. Even if they drew the liliana, it would have been at one loyalty post edict, and I would have felt I had sufficient time to sculpt a winning position post that with the top.

    I'll definitely keep streaming/posting videos, so feel welcome to critique away.
    Check out my Youtube channel featuring Magic Online Legacy Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/modozahori
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  10. #1050

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    going live with 12 post in 10 min . http://www.twitch.tv/dneeley

  11. #1051
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Progenifish is making me test ditching bonfire. Despite it being incredible, merfolk always gave the deck issues in the past, and its recent resurgence doesn't help any. Only real choice I'm making now is running Ostone or All is Dust, with me leaning heavily on OStone.

  12. #1052
    Freedom is just as essential as air
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    Progenifish is making me test ditching bonfire. Despite it being incredible, merfolk always gave the deck issues in the past, and its recent resurgence doesn't help any. Only real choice I'm making now is running Ostone or All is Dust, with me leaning heavily on OStone.
    How high is Merfolk in your area? Would running The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale in the main deck be worth the risk?

  13. #1053
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    Progenifish is making me test ditching bonfire. Despite it being incredible, merfolk always gave the deck issues in the past, and its recent resurgence doesn't help any. Only real choice I'm making now is running Ostone or All is Dust, with me leaning heavily on OStone.
    It's miserable. Force of will, forest, and moments peace do a lot of work for less commitment, but o stone may be needed ..

  14. #1054

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    going to stream 12 post in about 10 min http://www.twitch.tv/dneeley

  15. #1055
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by TimHarding View Post
    It's miserable. Force of will, forest, and moments peace do a lot of work for less commitment, but o stone may be needed ..
    Problem is, can't run moment's peace as a holistic answer because deathrite eats it. So a sweeper or Elephant grass are prolly best. Drop of honey isn't terrible either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mockingbird View Post
    How high is Merfolk in your area? Would running The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale in the main deck be worth the risk?
    Not high, but esper, u/w, and miracles are all picking up progenifish.

  16. #1056
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    I'm not playing that much lately, but is this new 3/1 really an issue for us? I'd be much more worried looking at an opposing geist of saint traft, same cc and deals double the damage this new merfolk does. Sure, it cannot be blocked and together with a random equip can be deadly, but is it enough to turn very good matchups like esperblade into a nightmare?
    Now, merfolk.deck is another thing of course. It has always been a quite bad matchup, and the idea of facing it more often isn't very appealing. Tbh i found Drop of Honey too slow to stop their horde of lords, you risk to suffer 6 or so dmg per turn anyway. Maybe it's time to fill again our sb with good ol' sweepers.

  17. #1057

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    my connection is slow but i managed to have my videos recorded last night and they are on my http://www.twitch.tv/dneeley.

  18. #1058
    Freedom is just as essential as air
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Davek View Post
    I'm not playing that much lately, but is this new 3/1 really an issue for us? I'd be much more worried looking at an opposing geist of saint traft, same cc and deals double the damage this new merfolk does. Sure, it cannot be blocked and together with a random equip can be deadly, but is it enough to turn very good matchups like esperblade into a nightmare?
    Now, merfolk.deck is another thing of course. It has always been a quite bad matchup, and the idea of facing it more often isn't very appealing. Tbh i found Drop of Honey too slow to stop their horde of lords, you risk to suffer 6 or so dmg per turn anyway. Maybe it's time to fill again our sb with good ol' sweepers.
    True-Identity Nemesis alone is not as a serious problem as it is in a Merfolk Tribal deck. But it's still a problem because it can't be held back by Repeal, it won't trade with Trinket Mage or die in to a Titan of any form (which is a problem if its been pecking at you with its 3 power for awhile or carrying an equipment as you mentioned), and most importantly, it completely undermines the purpose of splashing red for Bonfire of the Damned because what good is a board wipe that can't hit your opponent's biggest threat? It might as well be Banefire if we're just going to save it to burn out our opponent.

    Point is, everyone has to deal with "Progenifish". Right now, our best answers are our old answers: Oblivion Stone and/or All is Dust.
    Last edited by Mockingbird; 11-07-2013 at 08:50 PM.

  19. #1059
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Davek View Post
    I'm not playing that much lately, but is this new 3/1 really an issue for us? I'd be much more worried looking at an opposing geist of saint traft, same cc and deals double the damage this new merfolk does. Sure, it cannot be blocked and together with a random equip can be deadly, but is it enough to turn very good matchups like esperblade into a nightmare?
    Now, merfolk.deck is another thing of course. It has always been a quite bad matchup, and the idea of facing it more often isn't very appealing. Tbh i found Drop of Honey too slow to stop their horde of lords, you risk to suffer 6 or so dmg per turn anyway. Maybe it's time to fill again our sb with good ol' sweepers.
    What mockingbird said is entirely accurate. The TNN isn't itself a problem, it is the encouragement of the archetype Merfolk that its printing implies. Merfolk was always the most terrifying Aggro matchup. It was beatable, but at the time when it was a meta force, I ran Needles, all is dusts, show and tells, AND propagandas in the side.

  20. #1060

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    I actually think merfolk is going to be a top tier deck again, with a way to close a long game with tnn. so i beleive o stone is a better option especially if you stall on mana it's hard to get to 7 mana to cast all is dust.

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