Well, i think that most of the decks pointed as bad matchup aren't really so. I find mono-black pox to be from affordable to quite easy, because even if they tear apart our hand they're so slow at killing that you can easily and progressively recover and there's no way for them to remove a pithing needle unless they ultimate liliana, but that's probably what you should name with needle (mishra's factory is another good choice too, unless you decide to copy it with your own vesuvas)
About Goblins and Dnt, are they really bad matchups? I almost never lose a game to the both of them, even if i have to admit it's been a while since i faced gobbos and they are packing many more TSH now, so it could be easier for them to destroy that needle that's saving us from wastelanding our glacial chasm. The only things i really fear while playing against Dnt are Aven Mindcensor paired with Mother of Runes pre-side and Cataclysm post-side and that's why i usually board in Fow against them.
Regarding Storm, if you fear it or your metagame is infested by it, you should really try playing a maindeck playset of phyrexian revokers. Once sticked in play calling Lion's eye diamond, it slows their game A LOT and it immediately transforms your repeals into potentially deadly weapons. Think about this not-so-uncommon scenario where your opponent decides to go off, firing a couple of rites and all his cc0 artifacts in order to go hellbent once shooted his Infernal tutor. With his tutor still on stack, you decide to tap a single blue mana and cast repeal on LED, so that when tutor solves he's forced to search for another LED...
No.Originally Posted by Davek
Repeal on LED is a sweet dream.
1) You don't have priority so that when the storm player plays IT, he responds to it "first".
2) Sacrifice effect does not pass to the stack.
Repeal could work but only on "chrome mox" for example and apart from TES, ANT players are not always (even never) playing chrome mox.
But if you have a Phyrexian Revoker naming LED the storm player cannot respond to IT by activating LED: that's all the point of the sentence you have quoted...
And point 2 is not technically true: it's more like "the costs for activating an ability are paid as soon as the ability is announced and don't go on the stack" ;)
Ignorance is strength
Yeah I should learn to read better :-)
Lost to 2 different WUR Delver decks last night running Clinton's list, via getting wrecked by Meddling Mage naming Repeal and Show and Tell. Boarded in Elephant Grass both times and a few counters in the second matchup but it just wasn't nearly enough. Kind of a corner case, but I found it noteworthy: basically your options at that point are ramp or die.
I ran into the same situation against that deck he maged repeal. And was beating my face with batterskull and sofaf, had just enough time and stalling to plAy titan and ramo into both eldrAzi. Crop rotation saved my ass twice once for glimmerpost and for chasm
If you have problems solving this scenarios just play stonr or all is dust^^
Im running in md 2 stones and 0 candelabra, in my meta there're bug, sneak and show, threshold and miracles, gobbos etc, stones are soo good and im thinking i can play mindslaver and academy ruins but there re not necesary..
And how are the death and taxes and ******** ( rug delver) matchups?
Right now I'm including a trinket Mage. 1 Mage and 1 Engineered Explosives alongside repeal are very big game against UWR, or any delver. Also, the mono colorless plan is often open in this MU, so you can skate by on GP maps and candles if you sense them focusing on your repeals and SnT. Keep an 'eye' out for this situation phphphphph.
Mage on repeal lost me my match against UWR delver this weekend in an SCG IQ as well… I thought about including another source of bounce to combat this.
It's not this simple. There's a difference between knowing what cards are good against what and playing decks where those cards are favorable. There's also a difference between having the right card for the matchup and drawing it.
Right now, there are three pretty similar iterations of the same thing in U/G: Rock's list, Tim's list, and Clinton's list. There are also "outlier" lists: RUG lists and the mono-G or Gw lists. I have played all of them for at least a few weeks at a time. Rock, Tim and Clinton have the same fundamental goals and go about it in the same way but they each have slightly different strengths and weaknesses, so let's look at those.
Rock's list has the best defense against generic dorks and has the best initial matchup against decks like Storm with Phyrexian Revoker. It's soft to "Turn 1 kill you" plans, somewhat soft to recurred Wasteland (one Pithing Needle and one Trinket Mage to get it, and Surgical Extraction can come in from the board), and is in no position to get into a counter war (thanks to running three Swan Song).
Tim's list has the best toolbox package when you get into the board and also has more explosiveness by way of Oracle of Mul Daya. Running five fetches can also mean an additional chance at seeing the extra cards you need. I also feel it's the easiest list to sideboard with: you have three tutorable artifacts to address various threats, and a dozen counterspells. However, lots of unfair combo decks are going to nab a quick Game 1 win on this list. Recurred Wasteland will also be a bigger problem than it will be with Rock's list, and any deck that can run threats at a diverse CMC will probably have a good time too due to the conditional nature of Engineered Explosives.
Clinton's list is very direct. It is very good when you have no idea what you're going to be up against. It is good against most - but not all - unfair decks while also having solid game against most of the fair ones. It is also soft to "Turn 1 kill you" as well as to decks like Storm in Game 1. The board does help here, but it lacks sweepers and doesn't run Flusterstorm, which aside from its obvious usage against Storm also carries great opportunities to 2-for-1 careless opponents. It is also soft to recurred Wasteland.
This is part of why I really want the primer to be updated and would be willing to do it myself if there was enough interest. All three U/G lists are solid, the pilots are solid, and a player can find success with any of them. That having been said, a lot of it comes down to your own personal style of play as well as knowledge of what you're up against that determines exactly what cards go where. People have also had success with both RUG and mono-G: I can personally vouch for the hilarity of Bonfiring someone from 20 to 0 in one shot.
End rant.
-----
I've tried Devastation Tide, and personally I don't like it. It's very, very lackluster if you don't have Sensei's Divining Top to set it up. If you draw it without a Top, there is about a 98% chance you will wish it's just about any other card in your deck. Usually, it only buys you a turn, and in any case it doesn't net you an extra card the way Repeal does. If I were to run a mass-anything effect in that slot, I'd rather just kill all the things than bounce them. Your mileage may vary.
Could you manage a Whelming Wave or an AEtherize?
Won the local even though I played pretty poorly. It was my first event with the deck and I only played about ten matches with it previously over a year ago. My matches were as follows...
2-0 Miracles
2-1 Uwr Delver
2-1 Miracles (HARD misplay G1 with Primeval trigger. For some reason I didn't grab Ugin and died ~15 turns later)
2-1 TES
We scrambled the list together last minute and somehow ended up with 61 cards :(, here it is.
//LANDS-26
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
//CREATURES-9
4 Primeval Titan
2 Trinket Mage
1 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truths
//SPELLS-26
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map
4 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
4 Show and Tell
4 Repeal
//SIDEBOARD-15
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Swan Song
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Glen Elandra, Archmage
1 Mindbreak Trap
Future changes are most likely -1 Kozilek, -1 Crop Rotation, +1 Expedition Map.
I obviously had two really good matchups which definitely helped, and it was really cool to have Rock birding a few of my games and giving me some insight after the match. The deck is really fun and it's sweet how many lines of play you can take in every stage of the game. I will probably be playing it again in the future and hopefully not be so bad. At least I was able to identify most of my mistakes, learn from them, and will be able to apply those lessons in the future.
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly."Got any trade boogas?"
I'm currently pretty hung up on [card]devastation tide[/card]. Might just be the toy of the week, but it's a real catch-all so far.
@Zotmaster: Great comment, big take away is that the 3 UG lists you mention all play similarly, with slight tweaks for Meta, and player preference for when/where to give and take advantage.
My Breakdown:
Overall:
UG: Consistent. Redundant. Has at least some game against all legacy, excellent against Teir 1, softer to Teir 2.
UGr, Mono G, Gw: idfk, hope to dodge combo and hope for mono stoneforge meta, and no casual single wasteland blowouts
UG Details (recent):
Rock Lee: Strength in a more situationally diverse hate package, more angles. Focused on Meta Trends. Big advantage of hate (static) established not on T1, but turns 2-3-4. Where problems are most likely starting. Hate is maintained through game due to static effects and othe advantage. Win Via 2/x attack often. Hate is a little more proactive. List is naturally safe against beat down plans. Few counters hit once and hard.
Chime in Rock if this is grossly off base.
Tim H: Reactive hate, which is estaished T0, T1 (hates shenanigans) depletes, and then is restored by big late advantage bombs in tutorable static effects (trinket into chalice, cage, needle), Glen Elendra (big investment but you have won the game if you untap with her). Oracle stays in as a filter to draw more hate. Play well to bridge the gap between early and late game. 12 seemingly ignorant counter spells are exactly that, countering aggressively and using the hate density to keep living. Aggro concerns are shored up with 2/2s, 4 SnT, FOW, and EE. Prefer needle over revoker (for now) and can afford to because revokers strengths against elves and storm are covered with the straight-hate. Overall, strong agains combo, in that G2-3 way.
@hammafist, nice list! I just tried your SB 15/15 lol crazy.
Clinton: Traditional, was THE list in 2012. All the UG goodies, very equal consideration of Meta, highlighting the UG potency. More respect given to aggro and a little less to combo. But overall an average of the two total approaches listed above. I think in a totally blind legacy field this is the safest. Big props to listing to his style with the 4-ofs which I don't think happens enough with Post. Players need to play what makes them comfortable.
But overall, yes IMO most solid post lists are weaker game 1 to certain strategies, and then completely switch gears G-2-3. If you think about it very few legacy decks have a 'strong' G1 against a lot of the problem decks being discussed. Those who don't like that, opt for delver and daze - and lose to decks like ours :)
It's a good sideboard for the meta since there were 3 Storm decks out of 11 players. The Revokers came in against Miracles, nothing against Patriot, and all 15 against TES. It worked very well for me.
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly."Got any trade boogas?"
game 1s i think the best approach is just try to do what the deck does in the most efficient way possible and ignore your opponent, and build the board for the decks you cant ignore.
my board was put together at the last minute for the event and i only had access to one flusterstorm but opted not to use it. i think the BEB can accomplish what you need in its place. hitting PiF and burning wish can be huge in that match, along with being able to hit sneak attack and bloom moon.
the elephant grasses were critical to winning a few games, imo i think they should be an auto include in the board. i think that i would cut the glen elendra for a cage if i could go back. and change moments peace to EE, not sure though, i never got to use it so i dont know how good it could have been
Why you guys think elphant grass is so good?
I never would have used it.
Just show and tell or titan them to dead.
Short answer: because it is.
Longer answer: because for one mana, it buys you a large number of turns. Most fair decks - especially Delver variants - have super-tight mana bases. Their options basically boil down to either developing their board or attacking you. It causes them to no longer be able to do both. It also causes problems for unfair decks like Sneak and Show. If a Sneak player knows you're playing 12-Post, he will wait until he has at least five mana, get down a Sneak Attack (or Through the Breach if you're on Game 2 or 3) and win that way. Now he needs a minimum of seven mana to pull that off without exposing himself to undue risk, which is still bad news for him. Hilariously, Elephant Grass also shuts down both Germ tokens and Griselbrand.
dont forget storms goblins and dredges zombies
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote