[Deck] 12 Post

[Togores]

I side vs sneak and show 4 fow 4 swansong 3 krossan.

Usualy its enought. Cause if you pithing the sneak its usualy gg.

Vs agro decks. Glimmerpost. Repeal usualy makes the job.

I can figure out that it makes the pairing better. But dont know what to cut from my board.

4 fow
4 swan
2 gleen
1 chalice
1 cage
3 krossan.

I have a league final soon. There will be storm and ur burn. Dont know sure if this side beats them. But could be. Vs tes the deck is not so strong cuse lf silence. Bur vs ant i thik its better positioned.

I have to test revoker in any moment.
May be main or even side. Bur its a card i should know more. Cause its the card that causes more questions in me.

(:

[Hencules]

Short answer: because it is.

Longer answer: because for one mana, it buys you a large number of turns. Most fair decks - especially Delver variants - have super-tight mana bases. Their options basically boil down to either developing their board or attacking you. It causes them to no longer be able to do both. It also causes problems for unfair decks like Sneak and Show. If a Sneak player knows you're playing 12-Post, he will wait until he has at least five mana, get down a Sneak Attack (or Through the Breach if you're on Game 2 or 3) and win that way. Now he needs a minimum of seven mana to pull that off without exposing himself to undue risk, which is still bad news for him. Hilariously, Elephant Grass also shuts down both Germ tokens and Griselbrand.

So...if grass is good against a lot of fair and unfair decks, why is it in the board?

[caw_86]

So...if grass is good against a lot of fair and unfair decks, why is it in the board?

id still rather have all the normal main deck cards then grass game 1 though

[Togores]

I think its just good vs belcher. Goblins. Merfolks and so.

[Hencules]

id still rather have all the normal main deck cards then grass game 1 though

How has the singleton candlestick been treating you? With no direct way of searching for it?

[caw_86]

How has the singleton candlestick been treating you? With no direct way of searching for it?

its was good when i had it, it spead up the deck at any given point by a turn. it provides some interesting lines of play some times. like casting titans with one green source. but it was available to me to borrow so i chose to play it

[Mockingbird]

So I found a Mono Snow-Post deck that made a showing in the MTGO Dailies again this week:



// Lands: 26
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Dark Depths
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
3 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Vesuva
3 Wooded Foothills

// Creatures: 9
1 Eternal Witness
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Artifacts: 14
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top

// Instants: 2
2 Moment's Peace

// Sorceries: 9
1 All Is Dust
4 Crop Rotation
4 Green Sun's Zenith

//Sideboard
1 Bane of Progress
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Drop of Honey
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
1 Savannah
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

I can tell it's trying harder for the bad combo match-up that Rock Lee was describing when it placed last week. Interesting change that grabbed my attention: Into the North was cut.

[Rock Lee]

Been having some success with this RUG list:

// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [R] Tropical Island
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [UG] Island
3 [RLM] Grove of the Burnwillows
1 [R] Taiga
1 [ST] Forest (4)

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [CMD] Punishing Fire
4 [GP] Repeal

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 [TSP] Sudden Shock
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 [MMA] Krosan Grip


As always, it flips the matchups of amazing and not when adding splashes. Would greatly prefer to fit a 4th Revoker into the side, but with so little wiggle room I will keep it as is.

[HammafistRoob]

I like it, I remember we talked about the Pfire + Grove briefly. Maybe Intuition is good in that case? You could go down to 3 Fires at least... but at that point maybe Loam, EE, and Academy would want to slide in and you'd be pressed for space. Anyway it seems good and I am curious what results your testing brings... I might be on the UG train again on Wednesday. (Sorry been drinking a little lol)

[Hencules]

Been having some success with this RUG list:

[List]

As always, it flips the matchups of amazing and not when adding splashes. Would greatly prefer to fit a 4th Revoker into the side, but with so little wiggle room I will keep it as is.

Doesn't your reliance on Grove make you hate wasteland even more? Which would cause you to play needle over revoker?

[Rock Lee]

Doesn't your reliance on Grove make you hate wasteland even more? Which would cause you to play needle over revoker?

On the contrary, the deck isn't Grove reliant at all. Note not running 4 of them. Grove is there for easy mana fixing and abusing punishing fire in its multitudinous ways, and none of those have to happen in the first 2-3 turns, when needle is at its best.

Punishing fire also greatly lessens the need for early Chasm plays, where again needle would be the lifeline. Thus Revoker wins on multiple fronts.

[Hencules]

On the contrary, the deck isn't Grove reliant at all. Note not running 4 of them. Grove is there for easy mana fixing and abusing punishing fire in its multitudinous ways, and none of those have to happen in the first 2-3 turns, when needle is at its best.

Punishing fire also greatly lessens the need for early Chasm plays, where again needle would be the lifeline. Thus Revoker wins on multiple fronts.

I'm greatly interested! What would you say this version offers over conventional ug builds, besides stomping death and taxes even harder? I assume elves get better?

[Mockingbird]

I'm greatly interested! What would you say this version offers over conventional ug builds, besides stomping death and taxes even harder? I assume elves get better?

Any match-up where repeatable removal is needed (namely X/2's and planeswalkers) is improved by Punishing Fire because other than the Eldrazi's themselves, this deck tends to rely on Stall tactics rather than hard removal to take care of problems. And the life bonus is even even more negligible here because Eldrazi can make up that gain in a heartbeat better than any other creatures in the game because they are Eldrazi.

[TimHarding]

Didn't win my LGS yesterday with some rough mulligans, but played the hell out of the same player pool with some good results.


[MD]
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bajouka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Trinket Mage
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Townos
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Repeal
4 Show and Tell

[SB]
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swan Song
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle

I've been having a great time with EE. It's almost always at zero, nabbing delvers and germs. Easily changing modes to CMC 2 with no huge mana investment like other sweepers. You can reliably cast and activate the same turn for 4 mana or less. Rarely you can go to 3,4 mana in weird spots. It is MD-able elves HATE which is an auto win. It's tutorable. Might try the second main deck but I usually see the 1 often enough. It has also grabbed warrens tokens (yes I left it in for swarm and goblins). It does all this and serves 90% of tabernacles function IMO. I think everyone here feels 4 repeal isn't quite enough right now, so this adds some removal and control without splashing.

I added a second Oracle, which compete with Trinket Mage 2, and Needle 2 for that MD slot. It is extremely strong against BUG/Jund, and great against everything else, so why not? It's simitaneously a Threat, Defense, and Manipulator. With 2 MD I often had the terrifying curve of SnT, Oracle, Titan. I really abuse this thing I hope you all try it more.

The second chalice will probably become a hydroblast or Glen Elendra.

[Zotmaster]

It may have just been a blind squirrel finding a nut, but I won my weekly. I've made some very slight tweaks to Tim's list:

//ARTIFACT
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top

//INSTANT
4 Brainstorm
3 Crop Rotation
4 Repeal

//SORCERY
4 Show and Tell

//CREATURE
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
3 Primeval Titan
1 Trinket Mage
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

//LAND
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
2 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva

//SIDEBOARD
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Pithing Needle
3 Swan Song


2-0 vs Punishing Nic Fit, 2-0 vs Patriot Delver, 2-1 vs Patriot Delver, 2-0 vs Merfolk

- Kozilek! I've seen the arguments against him and I know most non-monoG lists have dropped him. I still love him and he's been worth his weight in gold. Today, he ate a Swords to Plowshares and my opponent got me down to 2 life before I dropped multiple Glimmerpost and took over the game. Sometimes, you have exactly enough mana to cast, or tutor for and cast, Kozilek and nothing else. Your mileage may vary, but he's earned a spot in my starting 60.

- The random number gods hate me, and as I've goldfished hundreds of hands, trends have popped up. Notably, my Primeval Titan seem to be magnetically attracted to each other. I don't like running 4 of any card unless I'm absolutely happy to see it every time I draw it. I'm not always happy to see Prime Time, and I have seen several instances where I've drawn or seen three via Sensei's Divining Top or Brainstorm, or had three in an opening hand. I cut one a while ago (I guess you could argue that it's Kozilek's spot now) and I still see them, in bunches, all the time.

- Like Tim has said, Oracle of Mul Daya is all sorts of explosive. If you can get a Sensei's Divining Top out along with the Oracle, it's just unfair. If you get even one land out of it, you've already gotten monster value. Seeing it eat a Force of Will is oddly satisfying: it's either that or it almost always fast-forwards your end game, unless you just draw bricks.

- Engineered Explosives is amazing. That and Repeal hit multiples of Thragtusk Beast tokens, Germs, flipped Delvers, Meddling Mage, and various Merfolk lords. I only saw Trinket Mage twice all night, but it always got something nice. I could see adding another one and cutting the fourth Top.

- I got insanely lucky against Merfolk. Their fast draws can be backbreaking, and your options are basically Explosives, stalling with Glacial Chasm, or curling up in the fetal position.

[Togores]

Played some games with rock lees list one week.
Thinks I could not name with revoker and lost most games cause it was not pithing:

Pendelhaven
inkmoth nexus
port
wasteland
Not naming Lili and gets just killed while I usualy sit on repeal + SDT when lili comes down.
tespian
naming koth vs red stack and getting destroyed by chandra
getting just disfigured

[TimHarding]

@zotmaster: Nice wins, especially Merfolk. You're right, without o-stone, e grass or a color splash, those are the only options against Merfolk. Thankfully that deck is trash in the grand scheme, and it is a rare MU.

Regarding Kozilek, I too have been revisiting the idea since I've been incorporating more Oracle in the game plan. Besides the obvious increase in ramp, oracle also adds more scenarios of "post multiples". If you only have ulamog and emrakul, the 11, 15, 11+7-2, 15+7-2 thresholds have a very straight series of plays that allow you to hit them in stride (my friends freaked when they found I plan turns a head for eldrazi exactsis). But a lot of that math comes off a Titan trigger based on what you already have out. With oracle, exploding into 10, or 10+7-2, off of the top of the library, or out of hand blows that construct out of the water. Trinket candle muddles this further. Kozilek is obviously amazing, in the right spots. I had cut him along with 2 vesuva in a crusade against virtual mulligans, and I feel that if he comes back, bringing back vesuva 3 and likely a hard candle 2 needs to join to avoid risking non-linear ramp anemia. But that's a big shift away from where I'm at now and would require a lot of testing against today's meta. He has been so lonely on the bench, next to tabernacle and venser haha.

[Zotmaster]

@zotmaster: Nice wins, especially Merfolk. You're right, without o-stone, e grass or a color splash, those are the only options against Merfolk. Thankfully that deck is trash in the grand scheme, and it is a rare MU.

Regarding Kozilek, I too have been revisiting the idea since I've been incorporating more Oracle in the game plan. Besides the obvious increase in ramp, oracle also adds more scenarios of "post multiples". If you only have ulamog and emrakul, the 11, 15, 11+7-2, 15+7-2 thresholds have a very straight series of plays that allow you to hit them in stride (my friends freaked when they found I plan turns a head for eldrazi exactsis). But a lot of that math comes off a Titan trigger based on what you already have out. With oracle, exploding into 10, or 10+7-2, off of the top of the library, or out of hand blows that construct out of the water. Trinket candle muddles this further. Kozilek is obviously amazing, in the right spots. I had cut him along with 2 vesuva in a crusade against virtual mulligans, and I feel that if he comes back, bringing back vesuva 3 and likely a hard candle 2 needs to join to avoid risking non-linear ramp anemia. But that's a big shift away from where I'm at now and would require a lot of testing against today's meta. He has been so lonely on the bench, next to tabernacle and venser haha.

I don't even know if O-Stone would do it: those Lords get out of hand pretty quickly. Thankfully, Repeal works as a kill spell against Phantasmal Image, albeit at the cost of losing the ability to cantrip. Elephant Grass would, but I don't know what I would take out to put it back in. I think I might have to concede the occasional creature swarm in favor of having the strategic ability to blow up troublesome permanents with Engineered Explosives.

I definitely understand the perils of virtual mulligans: I goldfish hundreds of hands on a weekly basis, but come tournament time it seems like people cut me the worst starting 7 math can generate. My favorite last week was a six-land (including Glacial Chasm, Karakas and Bojuka Bog) plus Show and Tell suck-fest. Nonetheless, I can't justify to myself cutting a card that has literally won me games, especially since my Primeval Titan like to have gathering parties in various spots in my deck as it is.

I'm thinking of cutting the fourth Top to expand on the Trinket Mage package: either by adding a second Mage or putting in another tutorable artifact. Not sure exactly where I'd go with it, but there are several interesting options: even Chimeric Mass is intriguing, if ultimately probably not good enough.

[Togores]

What u guys side in and out in the UG list vs

Sneak and show?

TES?

ANT?

[Zotmaster]

All of this depends on which U/G list you're running, as the lists have evolved differently: there's Rock's list, Clinton's list, and Tim's list (which I used as my basis and am tinkering with slightly).

What u guys side in and out in the UG list vs

Sneak and show?

Show and Tell is the easiest cut of your life. Bojuka Bog can come out. My local Sneak player boards out a couple Show and Tell against me (2, I think he said). Blood Moon comes in for him. He generally expects me to Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker Sneak Attack first and Griselbrand second, and as a result he usually goes in on a Through the Breach plan, using Jace, the Mind Sculptor to help set things up (and bounce Gaddock Teeg when I was running John Kassari's list). Venser's an okay addition if you're running him; otherwise you board in counterspells.

TES?

ANT?

Both are kinda similar in concept in terms of what we're bringing in. Rock's package with Revokers can shut down artifact mana. The Trinket Mage package can bring in Chalice of the Void to make things difficult by cutting off access to either tutors or artifact mana. Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog can complicate Cabal Ritual or otherwise make a Past in Flames impractical. Counterspells come in; ideally you float some on the top of your deck with Sensei's Divining Top and pick them up with activated Top or Brainstorm when necessary. You can also use Brainstorm to hide them from discard. Expedition Map is kind of bad here, as is Pithing Needle and even Show and Tell won't help you if your opponent can just take advantage of the last turn they get to kill you.

Basically, float counters, play defensively, ride a hard-cast Eldrazi (with obvious preference to Emrakul) to victory.