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Thread: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

  1. #21
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    Thought I was quite specific. 1 1/2 minutes total to look at 3 cards 3 times, when the 3 cards are random each time. You say slow play. And that blows my mind.
    OK, now I understand. I would still consider this slow play. 30 seconds to examine 3 cards is 10 seconds too much by my judgment. As you are a prolific Post Ramp/Top player, I would expect this amount of time to be reduces to less than 10 seconds. You should know what cards you're looking for and how to play around discard/ordering the cards. If you're shuffling so frequently just to update top, I would factor this in too. SDT is on my shitlist for Slow Play and there exists enough backup that the card has a detrimental effect on the rate of which tournaments go over Round time.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    OK, now I understand. I would still consider this slow play. 30 seconds to examine 3 cards is 10 seconds too much by my judgment. As you are a prolific Post Ramp/Top player, I would expect this amount of time to be reduces to less than 10 seconds. You should know what cards you're looking for and how to play around discard/ordering the cards. If you're shuffling so frequently just to update top, I would factor this in too. SDT is on my shitlist for Slow Play and there exists enough backup that the card has a detrimental effect on the rate of which tournaments go over Round time.
    I maintain my position about being content about your distance then. The way this deck uses SDT is not to make sure you have optimal CMC's for Counterbalance ontop like 90% of decks that run SDT run, or to dig three cards deeper and select the optimal of three cards in colors that are lacking in cantrips and shuffle away the rest like Sui or Mono Red can do. Both of these decisions are <5 second decisions.

    This deck has a massive power level difference between all of its cards that change based off single land drop/tutor choices. I'm not saying that this entitles the deck to more time for actions than other decks, but I do find it absurd that most people redirect their SDT animosity, which has often been accrued through slow players uncomfortable with their decks possibly attempting to stall out the game or simply being unexperienced, towards this deck that needs to balance the massively variant power level of their cards throughout the game in a single look/rearrange.

    Nevermind the considerations that keeping cards ontop of the library are extremely important. An excellent example is in the SCG coverage at Providence against Reanimator, both commentators were bemoaning how long I was taking topping, and how I had no plays and that I was "milking the spotlight," when infact I was maintaining a Flusterstorm on top of my library that entirely won me the game in three turns.

    It is for this reason that I strongly dislike TO's that use less than 50 minutes for their round times, time their Top 8's, and these TO's and Judges that approach players in regards to slow play without observing the players actual pace of play and rather are thinking of "wow all SDT players that go to time are slow playing" or "I want to get home by midnight therefore I'll give the SDT player a warning."

  3. #23
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    It is for this reason that I strongly dislike TO's that use less than 50 minutes for their round times, time their Top 8's, and these TO's and Judges that approach players in regards to slow play without observing the players actual pace of play and rather are thinking of "wow all SDT players that go to time are slow playing" or "I want to get home by midnight therefore I'll give the SDT player a warning."
    Not every venue can remain open past midnight. TO's can in fact chose to run rounds at 40/45/50 minutes at their discretion. Judges (good ones at least) will watch the pace of the game to determine Slow Play. You sound salty about having a judge come to watch for potential abuses of time. If it bothers you to be watched being played, or some commentary about your unorthodox play-speed, than perhaps there's something to be said about the pace of your play.

    I've seen this happen with players who are ritualistically methodical with their game play. In some cases, yes it's SDT. In other cases it's shuffling bordering on the level of OCD. In most of the remaining cases, it's players not confident with their plays. I'm not saying this is the case for you specifically, but when I read that you take upwards of 30 seconds to make your SDT decisions while having sufficient experience with the card, my spidey senses are perked.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Not every venue can remain open past midnight. TO's can in fact chose to run rounds at 40/45/50 minutes at their discretion. Judges (good ones at least) will watch the pace of the game to determine Slow Play. You sound salty about having a judge come to watch for potential abuses of time.
    Not at all. You missed my points entirely. But that's fine.

  5. #25

    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    I don't understand how you can state that each top activation can be done in ten to twenty seconds. Seeing Jeremiah play first hand, top decisions are slightly more complex than just filtering your draws and it's not like he's just sitting there playing with his thumbs. There's a reason that people say that brainstorm is the hardest card to play in Legacy, and top applies similarly here. There's a fine line between slow play and taking the time to make deliberate, calculated decisions, but the line IS there. Accusing someone of slow play when you a) don't really understand the circumstances and b) haven't observed a player playing is rash and rude. After all, you're rushing someone who is trying to make the right play, but as human beings, we need time to think, especially when you are playing an obscure deck and are most likely introduced to obscure game states that you need to holistically evaluate. You may say that that's crap, but even in common match-ups such as RUG Delver vs. Stoneblade, brainstorm and Jace decisions still take a while because each board state needs to be evaluated in context to the board state and not what they remember from testing.

    /end rant.

  6. #26

    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    It seems like everytime you show up to an event with this deck you top 5. When we gunna see a move to DTB status? Or is it just you who pwns everyone with this deck?
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    This deck does not take more time to Top than CB. Simply because by the nature of countering things it is the most reactive. Also, Doomsday.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by baghdadbob View Post
    It seems like everytime you show up to an event with this deck you top 5. When we gunna see a move to DTB status? Or is it just you who pwns everyone with this deck?
    Just making an Established Decks thread was a big jump for me!

    I do extremely well with the deck. I always make money on my weekly local events, and in large events I almost always top 8 and ifnot I'm in contention until the very end. That being said, I have heard that the deck is extremely hard to pilot. I have heard many stories of people who just couldn't make the deck work, or felt it too clunky. The deck definitely IS clunky and difficult to decipher, but once you figure out how to work it, its power is relentless.

    The only person I know who has had just as much success with the deck as I have is my frequent carpool mate Scott Hughes, who initially was lent the deck, then made his own (all foiled btw) version. He almost always top 8's events as well.

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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    The only person I know who has had just as much success with the deck as I have is my frequent carpool mate Scott Hughes, who initially was lent the deck, then made his own (all foiled btw) version. He almost always top 8's events as well.
    All foil? Damn I struggle getting myself to even safe up the money for a non foiled deck.

    It'll take a while until I get the whole list together and rocke the local scene just as you do, since it's always great fun to play without the blue splash. :D

    Anyway, congrats on the Top 4!

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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Once Bertoncini starts playing again, I wonder if he has any clue how many people are going to be watching every little thing he does. I know I would be in half a second flat. I know he blocked me on Twitter quite a few months ago because I kept asking him why he won't defend himself to his cheating allegations.

  11. #31
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    I plan on building this deck; looks fun and I always love a challenging deck.

    Also, congrats on the top 4 and beating Alex.

  12. #32
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar of Bro View Post
    Once Bertoncini starts playing again, I wonder if he has any clue how many people are going to be watching every little thing he does. I know I would be in half a second flat. I know he blocked me on Twitter quite a few months ago because I kept asking him why he won't defend himself to his cheating allegations.
    I was told that if I filed a report that he is playing unsanctioned magic events while banned that he could get perma/life banned. Anyone know about this? Given the opportunity I would do this considering how many people he has brazenly cheated. Only heard it 3rd hand, so I don't know.


    ::EDIT:: Spoke with some higher up Judges and the perma-ban would only be if he were trying to play sanctioned magic. so the person I spoke to must have been mistaken.

  13. #33
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    I maintain my position about being content about your distance then. The way this deck uses SDT is not to make sure you have optimal CMC's for Counterbalance ontop like 90% of decks that run SDT run, or to dig three cards deeper and select the optimal of three cards in colors that are lacking in cantrips and shuffle away the rest like Sui or Mono Red can do. Both of these decisions are <5 second decisions.

    This deck has a massive power level difference between all of its cards that change based off single land drop/tutor choices. I'm not saying that this entitles the deck to more time for actions than other decks, but I do find it absurd that most people redirect their SDT animosity, which has often been accrued through slow players uncomfortable with their decks possibly attempting to stall out the game or simply being unexperienced, towards this deck that needs to balance the massively variant power level of their cards throughout the game in a single look/rearrange.

    Nevermind the considerations that keeping cards ontop of the library are extremely important. An excellent example is in the SCG coverage at Providence against Reanimator, both commentators were bemoaning how long I was taking topping, and how I had no plays and that I was "milking the spotlight," when infact I was maintaining a Flusterstorm on top of my library that entirely won me the game in three turns.

    It is for this reason that I strongly dislike TO's that use less than 50 minutes for their round times, time their Top 8's, and these TO's and Judges that approach players in regards to slow play without observing the players actual pace of play and rather are thinking of "wow all SDT players that go to time are slow playing" or "I want to get home by midnight therefore I'll give the SDT player a warning."


    Yup, had to do it.

  14. #34
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post


    Yup, had to do it.
    Can't tell who is being sarcasm'd upon.

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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    Can't tell who is being sarcasm'd upon.
    Me neither oddly.
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  16. #36
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    why was it considered cheating when Alex Botercini played a merfolk deck with all foil spells and non-foil basics? Like. I don't understand how the way he dressed his deck is cheating :v (I will say, I'm glad you beat him)

  17. #37
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    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by monovfox View Post
    why was it considered cheating when Alex Botercini played a merfolk deck with all foil spells and non-foil basics? Like. I don't understand how the way he dressed his deck is cheating :v (I will say, I'm glad you beat him)
    foils curl, even new foils, so you can look at the top of your deck when it is faced-down with a fetchland in play, and know if the top card is a brick or not. It is considered one of the simplest forms of cheating, but also one of the most productive ones.

  18. #38

    Re: Top 4 Split @ Hartsdale, NY with Turbo Eldrazi - mini report

    Quote Originally Posted by monovfox View Post
    why was it considered cheating when Alex Botercini played a merfolk deck with all foil spells and non-foil basics? Like. I don't understand how the way he dressed his deck is cheating :v (I will say, I'm glad you beat him)
    Because only the lands were nonfoil. That allows a sufficiently-trained player to automatically shuffle to/cut to land or nonland. There's a reason it's called Marked Cards infraction, and if a pattern is suspected, that can be upgraded as per the IPG and Tournament Rules.

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