Should Black Vise be Unbanned?

[Redwall]

Black Vice, Mind Twist, and Earthcraft are beyond safe to unban. They wouldn't even be legacy staples. But it'll probably never happen. Look at how long it took for a clearly unplayable card like land tax to come off the list.

[Richard Cheese]

Yes because I have one in every printed language?

[jtos84]

There is no problem with what anyone has posted, but I just wanted to bring up a few points, so that we may stay focused. The original intention of this particular topic is to discuss black vise. It is also best to be prepared with either play testing results or some metagame logic. I said earlier that the discussion will bear more fruit if everyone refrains from persuasive statements like it is not fun, it is stupid, it is unfair, its not magicky, or anything of the like. I will also add that if some people would like to discuss reasons for the possible unbanning of other cards they will have better results starting a thread. If you would like I can start if for you just let me know.The discussion I have seen on the other cards is just back and forth with no evidence to back anything up. I would rather other cards be discussed in another thread.

I think we should be analyzing black vise in terms of the metagame, and what it can do to do it whether it is positive or negative. I have been thinking about this, so I will share some of my thoughts. There is monthly metagame analysis on this website. There is an abnormal amount of decks at the top of the list that represent few archetypes. This happens in magic fairly often I know, but I am concerned about the absence of other archetpyes. There are a number of miracles archetypes, and even control decks that go long. On their own their representation in the format makes little difference aside from the fact they are keeping other archetypes out. I think there is a certain card similiar to a card on the banned list that is responsible for this. It is also a card partly responsible for past succuss with black vise.

Terminus is a card that has the same effect as balance. Before anyone gets upset that it does not kill a land and does not make anyone discard I would like to add that makes it even better. The player can eliminate all the opponents creatures without discarding any of the own cards, and to add to it silimiar decks use batterskull. You may ask why this matters. It is because decks called weenie decks, or other decks like zoo, or anything similiar are not nearly as competitive as they used to be. Terminus obviosuly leads to much less diversification in the format. This causes players who would have played other decks to more than likely play nothing at all.

In my opinion black vise is the card that will tip the balance and allow these decks to see play again without banning any other cards. Arguments such as black vise will randomly win games should bear no real meaning. That already happens to every deck from the top teir down because you can not perfectly adjust decks to every deck. If black vise is in the format every deck is not going to win because they randomly play a black vise. If anything it will make every deck seeing less play to see the amount of play they should. On top of that it would probably be a s/b card. People may argue goblins and merfolk respresent the aggro strategies, but that is only because they are the extremes of the strategy. There are in fact many archetypes that are suppresed because of terminus and batterskull.

Jace the mind sculptor does not see a lot of resistance because of terminus, and the opponenets jace is its worse enemy. Decks that recieve so many huge advantages should not be given much sympathy when it comes to an easy to deal with card like black vise especially when it could balance things out.

Please back up any replies with sound logic or testing results. Anything for or against should just be disregarded because there is no supporting evidence and it just clutters the forum. It is obvious that people will be very for or against, but nearly every card is loved or hated by players. I would just ask that we keep it civil and use supporting evidence.

[jtos84]

I just wanted to add something about the rock, paper, scissors anologies I hear so much about. If magic were really like that game then who would play it? Matches are not decided by this archetype being better than another. If they are and it is a complete auto win then something should obviosuly be done. I hear pro players reference this game, but I don't think it has much use when analyzing magic the gathering.