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Thread: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

  1. #541

    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboninja View Post
    I played the deck at SCG Baltimore to a 4-4 finish. 4-3 on the Classic.


    The deck ran great and I will write a proper report when I have time. I had great matchups and should have gotten a better score. However, Dryad Arbor was hellbent on making me lose and was in my opening seven 12 times over the week-end. I lost to Bryant Cook, Michael Keller and Jody Keith. At least I had a blast!
    But you also sold me on Enchantress for EW in the process. If D/T, Death’s Shadow and Grixis are the major players right now - Enchantress should own those MUs, depending on the build. I Day 2ed w/Grixis and faced Enchantress twice. I won both times, but felt lucky in the process because I knew how hard the MU is.
    The Night HE Came Home.

  2. #542

    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboninja View Post
    I played the deck at SCG Baltimore to a 4-4 finish. 4-3 on the Classic.


    The deck ran great and I will write a proper report when I have time. I had great matchups and should have gotten a better score. However, Dryad Arbor was hellbent on making me lose and was in my opening seven 12 times over the week-end. I lost to Bryant Cook, Michael Keller and Jody Keith. At least I had a blast!
    I figured that was likely the case since only one Enchantress list made it to Day 2, though I was hopeful it was you! But oh well, I'd be interested to hear how you felt about your matchups and deck performance during the weekend, along with what tweaks you ended up settling on. My tournament is next weekend, and I'm probably about 99% settled, though I'm still weighing a light black splash (mostly Leovold, could be other stuff) or just sticking with UG, and narrowing down the final 1-2 SB slots. Traditionally, my meta seems to be heavy on Dredge, and also it seems like I can't play a large tournament without running into Burn and Elves, though I haven't seen Elves almost at all since the format changed and I'm probably just ignoring Burn as my general strategy. I think almost no matter what my choices, I'll have a strong game against Miracles, Grixis Control and Death's Shadow, which should be the top 3 played decks, and I like my choices/chances against some of the other slightly-less played ones like Death and Taxes and Eldrazi.

    I did some testing this week against 4c Loam which was tricky. The deck is very mutable depending on how the opponent wants to play the game, though it looks very difficult for most players to pilot well. But the disenchants + card advantage cards in the sideboard performed well in those games.

  3. #543
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Jody Keith liked playing against our deck at Baltimore and decided to stream my decklist on Friday (with some minor tweaks to my list : -1 Seal of Primordium MD, +1 Ground Seal MD, -1 Rec Sage SB, +1 Ground Seal SB).
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/315820002

    He explains the deck pretty well at the beginning. It's his first attempt to playing the deck and goes 2-3.

    I'm pretty happy that people are interested in the deck. It feels well positioned.

    Thanks Jody!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    But you also sold me on Enchantress for EW in the process. If D/T, Death’s Shadow and Grixis are the major players right now - Enchantress should own those MUs, depending on the build. I Day 2ed w/Grixis and faced Enchantress twice. I won both times, but felt lucky in the process because I knew how hard the MU is.
    Glad you had fun. Thanks for the games and the tips!

  4. #544

    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboninja View Post
    Jody Keith liked playing against our deck at Baltimore and decided to stream my decklist on Friday (with some minor tweaks to my list : -1 Seal of Primordium MD, +1 Ground Seal MD, -1 Rec Sage SB, +1 Ground Seal SB).
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/315820002

    He explains the deck pretty well at the beginning. It's his first attempt to playing the deck and goes 2-3.

    I'm pretty happy that people are interested in the deck. It feels well positioned.

    Thanks Jody!
    That's sweet! Definitely some rough plays (there were about a dozen different times when I was screaming at the computer for him to cycle his Cloud of Faeries, but he played a lot better in the later games), but it's fun to watch people scooping. Rough sideboarding, too, but seeing as how he literally just picked up the deck and started streaming, that's pretty forgivable. 2 Ground Seal between main deck and sideboard is a lot, I guess he's terrified of Surgical Extraction? I don't think I've ever actually lost a game to that card, but I can see how it could be scary if you've never played the deck before. But he seems like a super chill guy, glad to see some exposure!

  5. #545
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Ok, I finally have some time to report in detail. Concerning Ground Seal, I actually told Jody I would add in a couple in the 75 to hedge against Surgicals, after my 15 rounds at Baltimore. You'll understand after the report.

    My list on both days:

    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Savannah
    1 Dryad Arbor
    7 Forest
    2 Island

    Creatures:
    4 Argothian Enchantress
    4 Cloud of Faeries
    2 Eternal Witness

    Spells:
    4 Wild Growth
    4 Utopia Sprawl
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Seal of Removal
    4 Elephant Grass
    4 Enchantress's Presence
    2 Words of Wind
    2 Seal of Primordium
    1 Carpet of Flowers
    1 Living Wish

    SB:
    2 Seal of Primordium
    1 Reclamation Sage
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Carpet of Flowers
    3 Solitary Confinement
    1 Karakas
    1 Kitchen Finks
    1 Nissa, Vital Force
    2 Swan Song
    1 Eidolon of Blossoms

    Rd 1, against Abe on Grixis Control. 0-2 [0-1].
    I'm on the play and lose to Hymn to tourachs, md edict and force of will all making sure I never keep an enchantress alive. Game two, I also lose, but my notes are blank and I do not remember what happened. It's okay, on the round 2.

    Rd 2, against Dylan on Canadian Thresh. 2-1 [1-1].
    I'm on the draw and easily pull through with the engine. His Goyfs aren't nearly fast enough to matter. On game 2, he lands an early Delver and has the Dazes and stifle to back it up and make it too quick for me. On game 3, I grind him out as I did in game 2. Elephant Grass is good in the matchup.

    Rd 3, against James on Death's Shadow. 2-0 [2-1].
    I'm on the draw and it's a slow game. He counters a couple enchantresses. I eventually Wish for Eidolon and win from there. I win game two without problem. Things just roll out properly.

    Rd 4, against Sam on Miracles. 1-2 [2-2].
    First and foremost, I should have won this round. It was meant to be won. I easily take game one on the play. On to game two (side in Nissa and Eidolon, side out carpet and wish), where I keep a slow hand. It's usually good against Miracles. I manage to get argothians on the board and draw half a dozen cards, but all lands. He eventually gets terminus. I get a presence, which he disenchants and drops a counterbalance. He blind flips three out of three, including against my seal of primordium. Jace gets there. I begin round 3 on the draw, mull to 5 because of dryad and a no-lander. I keep another slow hand looking at his turn three mentor. I cannot get there quick enough as he counters my first 2 enchantresses. I feel like the matchup is incredibly favored. Can'T win them all!

    Rd 5, against Adonnis on Grixis Control. 2-1 [3.2].
    I win game one on the play, with so many enchantresses that his grind finds its match. He also drew a couple Baleful Strixes which are completely helpless against us. Game 2, he gets the appropriate discard magic and edict effects to quickly run out Gurmag. He counters and surgicals the Grass and wins. Game 3, I win by again overloading him with card advantage. When the engine gets going, they have such a hard time catching up.

    Rd 6, against Michael Keller on Grixis Control. 1-2 [3-3].
    I'm on the draw, after a mull to 5. I get hymned early on, but cast a green sun's zenith which gets me my first enchantress. I win from there. Game 2, I mull to 5 again and get locked out by 2 timely surgicals on both enchantresses. Game three, on the play mull to 6, it's a race. I try to get my engine to stay put on the battelfield, while he digs for the surgicals to exile them. He does it again!
    I had some bad luck there with my starting hands. I only mull if there's no green land or enchantress in hand.

    Rd 7, against Alex on Eldrazi Post. 2-0 [4-3].
    Feels like a walk in the park. Both games went very quickly. I had early enchantresses with fast cloud of faeries mana in both games and comboed off on turns 4 and 5 respectively. Having 2 md seal of primordium feels very good.

    Rd 8, against Corey on UW Delverblade. 1-2 [4-4].
    I start game 1 on the draw with a mull to 5. I go on to lose that game against TNN beats, but it actually is very close! Game 2, I win with Nissa as an additional hay maker. Game 3 I mull to 6. The game is very close. He drops and flips a turn 1 delver. I play a turn 1 elephant grass to allow me to put lands into play without pressure. I almost get there, but Force of Will and Disenchants ruin my day. Day 2 was for x-3, so I call it a day.

    Legacy Classic:
    Same decklist. I really liked how it played out, i felt like those games were robbed from the unlucky starting hands. I didn't track mulligans in the first 3 rounds, but I got a couple in there as well.

    Rd 1, against Justin on UBg Shadow. 1-2 [0-1].
    Game 1 feels like a bye. Good start to that day. However, in both games 2 and 3, he gets early discard into surgical, with delver beats. Damn! Decay on Grass put the nail in the coffin.

    Rd 2, against Jody Keith on Lands. 0-2 [0-2].
    Game 1 on the draw, I keep a hand that has limited mana sources. He gets his wasteland, ghost quarter and rishadan port plan going and I fail to play anything relevant until he gets the Lage into play. Game 2, I mull to 6 after seeing my wonderful dryad. I keep a hand that also has slow mana. He plays an early chalice off of mox diamond. I play a seal and destroy the mox. He then draws a couple Gambles and Crop Rotations while I try drawing a seal of removal to deal with his Tireless Tracker. He eventually runs me over with tracker, backed up with port again. Hard times! I actually have a lot of experience in the matchup and it feels good. However, make sure to have many mana sources in the matchup!

    Rd 3, against Bryant Cook on TES. 0-2 [0-2].
    Game 1 on the play, mull to 6. I play a turn 1 elephant grass to help me draw cards and play lands. However, he has a land heavy land and just plays land drops while I do nothing. He eventually tendrills for a million. Game 2, mull to 6. I get a Swan song and counter a burning wish. I eventually Witness the Song back to my hand. However, he has plenty of time to sculpt his hand and goes off even through my swan song. He shows me an echoing truth in hand, meaning confinement would not have been enough! I think that the best strategy here is to dodge matchup. We talked about it in the past, but I'm now confident it's our best bet. Even if we increase our odds to 55% on games 2 and 3, it's not worth it.

    Rd 4, against Liam on Dredge. 2-0 [1-3].
    Okay, here's an easy matchup. Elephant grass and seal of removal are great here. I win both games pretty easily.

    Rd 5, against Lyle on Grixis Control. 2-0 [2-3].
    Both games are pretty easy, where my opponent gets baleful strixes and no surgicals (2nd game). If they can't disrupt us early out of enchantresses, we overcome anything they get.

    Rd 6, against Gabriel on UW Delverblade. 2-1 [3-3].
    I win game one as it always should be against that type of deck. So much card draw makes it hard for them to even have a chance. I get dryad in game 2 in my hand and mull to 6. It's a tight race, but his delvers get there. Game 3, he gets double delver which is pretty hard. I eventually land a Words of Wind and bounce his permanents over 2 turns the old fashion way. I win this by a hair! He had surgicaled one of my enchantresses.

    Rd 7, against YongJi on Grixis Control. 2-1 [4-3].
    I lose game one from a mull to 6. The game plays out wierd and I am surprised to die so quickly from gurmag. Game two is won with words of wind bounce, without the whole combo. Game 3 is won using Nissa after he surgicaled my Enchantress.


    Overall feel: the deck is very strong in the current meta. I had looked at my sideboarding strategy and noticed that Seal of primordium often came in, which is why I brought one more from the sideboard to the main deck. What I would do differently now: move the carpet to the sideboard. That card is only good against mana denial strategies (i.e. Delver). Against other blue decks, I rather have more impactful cards like Nissa and Eidolon.

    #1 Wish is much better than Mindbreak Trap. The trap is rarely useful, even if sometimes we have a luck one. The wish allows the same inevitability as Trap does. We get the finks and gain infinite life. Usually it's enough!
    #2 Eidolon is a must have in this meta. Either MD or SB with wish. With all the discard, we must have better topdecks. Eidolon is pretty good, drawing you a card when you GSZ it.
    #3 Nissa is awesome. Like Garruk, she can be a win con when we go to time. However, unlike Garruk, she can go off the turn we combo, so long as we haven't attacked. We untap each land one by one and make them 5/5 haste creatures! She also helps in the combo, either by getting an enchantress back or untapping lands. She kills Jace easily. I brought her in against most blue matchups to also hedge against Surgical.
    #4 Confinement was never cool. I thought I'd like it against Grixis, but even if they cannot remove it, I still cannot win if somehow they surgical my words of win or my green sun's zenith (to avoid decking). Apart from TES, I did not play any matchups where it was necessary. I will have to think about their pertinence some more.
    #5 Swan song is good. These help our Elves!, Eldrazi Post, Sneak and Show matchups. I feel like the raw power on that card should not be underestimated.
    #6 Dryad is mandatory to fetch against edict effects, or eot to attack Jace, or to ramp if you have lots of enchantresses. However, I hate that little dude in my opening 7.

    Surgical is strong against us. I do not think Relic is the way to go. Ground Seal is okay, and doubles as a win con with words of winds, bouncing itself over and over. Maybe Rest in Peace would be stronger though?

    How do you like Enchanted Island as a name for the deck? That's how I named it when I presented it to Jody and he advertised it as such! I don't like being assimilated to Enchantress, as the two decks are very different. Anyway, it doesn't matter much does it? :)

  6. #546

    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    I think that I've come to the same conclusion about Seal of Primordium; Chalice decks are prevalent enough that it's now common to face Chalice for 1 in the first game, and while I usually don't have a huge problem beating that by just cycling 1-mana enchantments until I can find the Seal of Primordium, having a second one would make that situation a lot simpler and reduce the chances of decking while trying to answer it.

    For Eidolon, if you like him I think he's a fine choice, though I'd rather have him main than the sideboard. Usually for me I find that just GSZ for Eternal Witness is a great plan for grinding through discard game 1, but I might be playing things slightly differently than you (holding more enchantments or something), making that a more functional plan. I don't really like the idea of turning on their otherwise dead Fatal Pushes and Lightning Bolts, particular when we're talking about an enchantress effect, but the fact that you draw a card when it comes into play negates that issue to a degree. That's just me. I used to play with a Verduran Enchantress to wish for before Eidolon existed, and it was always pretty poor for me, outside of letting me play around Surgical Extraction or turn Living Wish into an actual card that mattered. I think that Eidolon is an upgrade in that case, just a little slower. I've always been kind of meh on Living Wish, just because I don't like giving up the extra SB slot, but it's functional if you like it.

    I can see why you'd want a Ground Seal, given that set of circumstances. I do think if you're on white and your plan is Ground Seal, you probably do just want to be playing Rest in Peace. I think Eternal Witness is worth more in most matchups than shutting him off as a proactive plan against Surgical Extraction (which is why I like Relic or Scavenging Ooze better, since it doesn't completely hose Eternal Witness) since otherwise you just scoop to two counterspells on Words of Wind, but Rest in Peace is a much stronger card than Ground Seal. If you were just UG then Ground Seal would be your strongest answer. There are ways to get your Eternal Witness back off of Ground Seal with Words of Wind or Seal of Primordium, but that seems pretty cutesy to me and could open up windows for Surgical Extraction to actually do something, which would negate the whole purpose of the card in the first place.

    Side note for playing around Surgical Extraction: this is probably obvious, but Surgical Extraction doesn't get cards in play. If you can resolve any of the cards that matter, particularly early, you can greatly diminish the power of Surgical Extraction. Even having one Cloud of Faeries in play when they go to SE the rest of them can be enough to keep the combo intact. I also do find that just having a Plainswalker in the deck at that point makes it so that you're not just stone dead to SE, almost making me think that a second Garruk would be worth more than something like Relic of Progenitus.

    For Dryad Arbor, you take the good with the bad, obviously. It's strong for all of the reasons you mentioned, and it's terrible in the opening hand. I will say that sometimes it's worth it to just play it out on turn 1 (if you have Argothian Enchantress in hand or something), or if you manage to draw other lands it's usually fine turn 3 or 4 if you have enough other mana going with Wild Growth effects. There are definitely times when it feels bad, but it's also functionally not worse most of the time than just playing a single tap land or something like that. Which is certainly not great in Legacy, but it hasn't been back-breaking. I think I mulligan more aggressively than you, though that's more art a lot of the times than science. I will always mulligan a hand with no Enchantresses (or lands, obviously), and I will usually mulligan a hand with no accelerants unless I know it's going to be a grindy matchup. I am also a lot more aggressive in my mulliganing on the draw vs on the play, since the tempo loss means we are pretty far behind to begin with, so a stronger opening hand is necessary. The scry 1 helps a lot, along with having so much card draw. I do feel like having an additional land could be beneficial sometimes, though it hasn't been so much of a problem as to make me want to do that.

    Nissa is interesting, though I will say I usually just ignore opposing Jaces almost entirely. None of the modes (on Jace) are particularly threatening unless you're deck isn't functioning, and if that's the case then they can probably beat you with just about anything. I regularly out-draw Jace with this deck, so most of the time I will just use that window when they've tapped out to land another Enchantress and draw a few more cards. It doesn't work every time, clearly, but it hasn't been so much of an issue. I'd also rather not get my lands Terminus-ed away to the point where I sometimes side out Dryad Arbor against any deck with sweepers, though it's not a huge deal even then, most of the time.

    Thanks for the report! I think there are a lot of games in there where you probably weren't in a good position to win even against good matchups, so that kind of sucks, but like you said, can't win them all. Even an 80/20 matchup means you should lose once every five matches, but the flipside is that it means sometimes you just luck out against Storm. I'm excited to incorporate this feedback into my tournament this weekend!
    Last edited by benthetenor; 10-01-2018 at 09:36 PM.

  7. #547

    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    I played in my tournament yesterday, ended up missing everything at 5-3. My list was:

    7 Forest
    2 Island
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Bayou
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Wooded Foothills
    1 Windswept Heath
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Dryad Arbor

    4 Argothian Enchantress
    4 Cloud of Faeries
    2 Eternal Witness

    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Wild Growth
    4 Utopia Sprawl
    4 Elephant Grass
    4 Seal of Removal
    1 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Seal of Primordium
    4 Enchantress's Presence
    2 Words of Wind
    1 Mindbreak Trap

    SB:
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Lignify
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Seal of Primordium
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Kitchen Finks
    2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
    1 Envelop
    2 Back to Basics
    3 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

    I beat (in no particular order) Goblins, Death and Taxes, Death's Shadow and Sneak and Show twice, and lost to Turbo Depths, UW Standstill and Grixis Delver. I'm sure I made a lot of mistakes in my wins, but I remember the losses much more clearly and there weren't too many mistakes there. My draw against the Standstill guy was about the best I could reasonably expect, with me casting an enchantress or plainswalker or Leovold every turn four turns in a row both games, but he had a counterspell or Council's Judgement (+ Snapcaster Mage) for each play. Against Grixis Delver I played around Daze on the first turn of game 3 and got punished with Thoughtseize taking my Carpet of Flowers. It seemed like a good call in the moment, but reflecting on it, it's maybe more likely he would have Thoughtseize in the sideboarded games than Daze. Maybe it was still right since he was on the play, but he got me there. Turbo Depths had to have three answers (Pithing Needle on 2 Seal of Removal, a discard spell taking Back to Basics and an Assassin's Trophy on Elephant Grass) plus the combo all by turn 4 to beat me in the third game. I'm not 100% sure if Back to Basics was right there, and Pithing Needle got me good, so maybe having more Disenchants (I had 2 still) would have been better, but he told me he had 4 Assassin's Trophy main and some Abrupt Decay in the sideboard, so that answered my question about how played that card would be this weekend. Back to Basics would have bought me the turn I needed to go off had I been able to land it, and if it were Seal of Primordium instead he would have just taken my Enchantress with the discard spell, so likely there was nothing I could have done differently.

    I don't know if this is the right deck for a long tournament just because not playing Brainstorm + Ponder puts us at a huge disadvantage to variance over the course of 8-15 rounds. Or rather, it handicaps our ability to manage variance in a way that a lot of the other decks in Legacy don't have to deal with. I feel like in a lot of my wins I was drawing pretty well, and a lot of my game losses were either the opponent being able to sculpt well or me mulliganing more than the opponent. I think the deck mulligans well and can recover very well if we can stick an enchantress, but it's still not great to be down a card or two more than the opponent in every set of three games, and I don't think there's really a way around that given the constraints of Enchantress.

    Back to Basics was the best card in the deck in a lot of matchups, and it wasn't particularly close. I won every game that it resolved. I was testing it main in place of one of the Seal of Primordium and the Carpet of Flowers, but I decided that I'd rather have the second Seal main to help against Chalice decks game 1, which I actually didn't see this tournament. They were in the room, I just didn't face them. I brought Back to Basics in against Goblins, Death and Taxes, Grixis Delver, Death's Shadow and Turbo Depths. Miracles is probably a better Back to Basics deck just because it can find it (or avoid it) more consistently, but it was really good here and I wouldn't play this deck without them, at least in the sideboard.

    The splash for Leovold wasn't relevant in my matchups, but it was mostly for combo decks. It didn't show up against Sneak and Show and just got countered against Standstill. It would have been a lot better as Deep Analysis given what I faced, but there's no way I could have guessed that I'd go against Standstill. The theory was to act as a better Compost against the grindy decks that also happened to be a huge part of beating Storm, but I didn't face Storm so it under-performed. I ended up using about half of my sideboard cards since I didn't face any graveyard or Storm decks, but I don't know that it would be right to change things around just because of that. The 4 Disenchants between main and side worked overtime, and the Back to Basics and Garruks were great, though I consistently finished my rounds with 10-20 minutes to spare so I never had to make infinite beasts. Didn't see a single Surgical Extraction either, though I'd guess it did get boarded in against me for at least the Death's Shadow matchup. Seal of Removal and Elephant Grass were all-stars like I thought they would be in this metagame, but it just wasn't enough to beat out variance this time.

    I don't know if I'll keep playing this deck since I pretty much only get to play in large tournaments and I don't think it's well-suited for that. I got mostly good matchups (in theory) but it wasn't enough. Which is more of a feel thing; obviously I could have won even one more game and done much better, but that would of course have changed every other game I played and I felt lucky to win a few of my other ones so on the balance I think that 5-3 is about what I'd expect. I lost to a deck that leans entirely on Dark Depths and to a Delver deck, both of which I should have crushed, so it probably all evens out. Unfortunately in tournament Magic the difference between 5-3 and 6-2 (or 6-1-1) is the difference between winning thousands of dollars and going home with nothing, so I think beating variance might be the single most important aspect of a good tournament deck. I think this is still viable for spiking a shorter tournament, like a 4-6 round LGS or something like it, but asking much more than that from it is ambitious.

  8. #548
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Good job on your finish! I tend to agree with your analysis on variance, I have felt the same way about the deck. However, I think we just need to keep on bringing it to such tournaments to eventually run hot and take down one of them. The deck has the power to do this.

    For the time being though, I have no big tournament coming and will probably also try out other decks.

    Thanks for the insight over the past weeks and good luck to you!

    I will keep on following any developments on the decks :)

  9. #549

    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Now that Estrid's Invocation is a thing, Has anyone tried fitting it into a words of wind enchantress shell? If so, please share your experiences with as much detail as possible.

  10. #550

    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Quote Originally Posted by HouseOfCards View Post
    Now that Estrid's Invocation is a thing, Has anyone tried fitting it into a words of wind enchantress shell? If so, please share your experiences with as much detail as possible.
    I don't like it, though there are some guys who have tried it and apparently they think it's the best thing ever. For me, I don't think this deck needs a fifth or sixth copy of anything that's not an enchantress, and we're already playing 12 or more of those. They've managed to fit it in by shaving (or completely cutting) Green Sun's Zenith, which I think is a really poor decision, but I don't know what else you'd realistically cut. I wouldn't be comfortable without at least one Seal of Primordium in the deck at all times, as well as one Mindbreak Trap/Kitchen Finks/thing that ensures that you don't lose games after you've gone off, so that really just leaves like two slots that are reasonably flexible. I think a Carpet of Flowers or Back to Basics are better cards to have in the deck than that card, since by definition Estrid's Invocation doesn't do anything you're not already doing so it can't help you pull out of a bad situation. If the first Elephant Grass isn't helping, the second one (for three mana) is probably not going to help much either.

    Now, in the deck that uses it, they've also included other cards that I think are pretty bad in this deck that work well with Estrid's Invocation. They've got enchantments that cantrip when the enter the battlefield (Abundant Growth, Ground Seal) so that, at worst, the Invocation will draw you a card every turn, and they're playing Solitary Confinement so that you can buy an extra turn sometimes. That's more of an engine that you build around, rather than a piece you try to put into an otherwise functioning deck. I think it's cute, but probably not better than just playing Green Sun's Zenith and Seal of Removal. Your enchantments already cantrip if things are going to plan, and if things are not going to plan, again, Estrid's Invocation or Abundant Growth aren't exactly going to help you out. I'd rather play Eternal Witness every day of the week, for example, since it's so much better at clogging up the board and rebuying something that the opponent has dealt with, making it a much higher-impact play, and being able to turn your Green Sun's Zeniths into Regrowths is extremely good.

  11. #551

    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Quote Originally Posted by benthetenor View Post
    I don't like it, though there are some guys who have tried it and apparently they think it's the best thing ever. For me, I don't think this deck needs a fifth or sixth copy of anything that's not an enchantress, and we're already playing 12 or more of those. They've managed to fit it in by shaving (or completely cutting) Green Sun's Zenith, which I think is a really poor decision, but I don't know what else you'd realistically cut. I wouldn't be comfortable without at least one Seal of Primordium in the deck at all times, as well as one Mindbreak Trap/Kitchen Finks/thing that ensures that you don't lose games after you've gone off, so that really just leaves like two slots that are reasonably flexible. I think a Carpet of Flowers or Back to Basics are better cards to have in the deck than that card, since by definition Estrid's Invocation doesn't do anything you're not already doing so it can't help you pull out of a bad situation. If the first Elephant Grass isn't helping, the second one (for three mana) is probably not going to help much either.

    Now, in the deck that uses it, they've also included other cards that I think are pretty bad in this deck that work well with Estrid's Invocation. They've got enchantments that cantrip when the enter the battlefield (Abundant Growth, Ground Seal) so that, at worst, the Invocation will draw you a card every turn, and they're playing Solitary Confinement so that you can buy an extra turn sometimes. That's more of an engine that you build around, rather than a piece you try to put into an otherwise functioning deck. I think it's cute, but probably not better than just playing Green Sun's Zenith and Seal of Removal. Your enchantments already cantrip if things are going to plan, and if things are not going to plan, again, Estrid's Invocation or Abundant Growth aren't exactly going to help you out. I'd rather play Eternal Witness every day of the week, for example, since it's so much better at clogging up the board and rebuying something that the opponent has dealt with, making it a much higher-impact play, and being able to turn your Green Sun's Zeniths into Regrowths is extremely good.
    Thank you for your insights mate. I'm pretty new to the idea of u/g enchantress but it's hard for me to decide between the engine version or the cloud of faeries version. I really like how the cloud of faeries version has an easier time vs daze. I also like how vs decks without daze, you could ramp up to 4 mana quickly on t2. I know I want to use words of wind. I like back to basics. I also like, dare I say it, Parallax Tide in this type of deck. Tide would also be great with invocation too lol. I think I need to sleeve up both decks and play 50-100 games with both against the meta to get a feeling for how they each play, what their weaknesses/strengths are and to see how much room there is for deviation. I regularly play g/w/x enchantress but when I saw estrid's invocation get printed I went out and bought a bunch of u/g og foil stuff because it looks like a blast to play. I'll probably chime in on the thread from time to time sharing my experiences/thoughts on the u/g variations.

  12. #552
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Quote Originally Posted by HouseOfCards View Post
    Thank you for your insights mate. I'm pretty new to the idea of u/g enchantress but it's hard for me to decide between the engine version or the cloud of faeries version. I really like how the cloud of faeries version has an easier time vs daze. I also like how vs decks without daze, you could ramp up to 4 mana quickly on t2. I know I want to use words of wind. I like back to basics. I also like, dare I say it, Parallax Tide in this type of deck. Tide would also be great with invocation too lol. I think I need to sleeve up both decks and play 50-100 games with both against the meta to get a feeling for how they each play, what their weaknesses/strengths are and to see how much room there is for deviation. I regularly play g/w/x enchantress but when I saw estrid's invocation get printed I went out and bought a bunch of u/g og foil stuff because it looks like a blast to play. I'll probably chime in on the thread from time to time sharing my experiences/thoughts on the u/g variations.
    It'll be great hearing from your testing!

  13. #553

    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    https://deck.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/89662/show/

    Tamura Tetsu, 晴れる屋チームレガシー杯 - 2012-09-17


    Mainboard (60)

    Lands(20)

    1《Flooded Strand》
    6《Forest》
    1《Horizon Canopy》
    2《Island》
    4《Misty Rainforest》
    3《Plains》
    1《Serra's Sanctum》
    1《Tundra》
    1《Windswept Heath》

    Creatures(6)

    3《Argothian Enchantress》
    3《Cloud of Faeries》

    Spells(34)

    2《Enlightened Tutor》
    4《Living Wish》
    1《Back to Basics》
    2《Elephant Grass》
    4《Enchantress's Presence》
    1《Ground Seal》
    2《Mirri's Guile》
    1《Oblivion Ring》
    2《Seal of Removal》
    2《Solitary Confinement》
    2《Sterling Grove》
    4《Utopia Sprawl》
    4《Wild Growth》
    2《Words of Wind》
    1《Cloudstone Curio》


    Sideboard (15)

    1《Serra's Sanctum》
    1《Argothian Enchantress》
    1《Cloud of Faeries》
    1《Emrakul, the Aeons Torn》
    1《Gaddock Teeg》
    1《Gilded Drake》
    1《Phyrexian Revoker》
    1《Replenish》
    1《Back to Basics》
    1《Carpet of Flowers》
    1《City of Solitude》
    1《Energy Flux》
    1《Karmic Justice》
    1《Stony Silence》
    1《Wheel of Sun and Moon》

    What do you think about it?
    In girum imus nocte, et consumimur igni.

  14. #554
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Quote Originally Posted by Broseph View Post
    https://deck.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/89662/show/

    Tamura Tetsu, 晴れる屋チームレガシー杯 - 2012-09-17


    Mainboard (60)

    Lands(20)

    1《Flooded Strand》
    6《Forest》
    1《Horizon Canopy》
    2《Island》
    4《Misty Rainforest》
    3《Plains》
    1《Serra's Sanctum》
    1《Tundra》
    1《Windswept Heath》

    Creatures(6)

    3《Argothian Enchantress》
    3《Cloud of Faeries》

    Spells(34)

    2《Enlightened Tutor》
    4《Living Wish》
    1《Back to Basics》
    2《Elephant Grass》
    4《Enchantress's Presence》
    1《Ground Seal》
    2《Mirri's Guile》
    1《Oblivion Ring》
    2《Seal of Removal》
    2《Solitary Confinement》
    2《Sterling Grove》
    4《Utopia Sprawl》
    4《Wild Growth》
    2《Words of Wind》
    1《Cloudstone Curio》


    Sideboard (15)

    1《Serra's Sanctum》
    1《Argothian Enchantress》
    1《Cloud of Faeries》
    1《Emrakul, the Aeons Torn》
    1《Gaddock Teeg》
    1《Gilded Drake》
    1《Phyrexian Revoker》
    1《Replenish》
    1《Back to Basics》
    1《Carpet of Flowers》
    1《City of Solitude》
    1《Energy Flux》
    1《Karmic Justice》
    1《Stony Silence》
    1《Wheel of Sun and Moon》

    What do you think about it?
    Replacing GSZ with Living Wish has its advantages, but here it reduces the amount of enchantresses to only 11, which is too little.

    I like the Horizon Canopy. You never want to have an enchantment on it, but in many games I am left with too many lands. We require 2-3 early on, but when we start drawing our deck, it would be nice to have a land that can replace itself. I'll try it out.

    I do not like relying on white. 3 Plains is clearly too much.

    The list is interesting, but I feel that overall it is too spread out and will lose to itself more often than a standard UG list.

  15. #555
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Horizon Canopy is not very good for this deck, as it cannot be fetched and is yet another non-basic land.

    Here's a new card in spoilers that could potentially be very good for us:

    https://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/r...4-lines-of-ash

    Cindervines
    RG
    Enchantment
    Whenever an opponent casts a non-creature spell, Cindervines deals 1 damage to that player.

    1, sacrifice Lines of Ash: Destroy target artifact or enchantment. Cindervines deals 2 damage to that permanent's controller.

    I love it. I will most certainly retry the RUG version of this deck with blood moons and this little darling. This is a Seal of Primordium (albeit harder to cast and more expensive to activate) that doubles as pressure against combo.

    What do you think?

  16. #556
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    I'm trying something new here. Going bad to a UG version, with no splash. Trying out Mystic Remora with FoW and Surgical out of the SB to win combo matchups. Herald is something else I am trying. Against Burn it makes sure I can gain infinite life if I combo and not be dead to land bolt. I believe it can also help against D&T and other mana denial strategies.

    Any thoughts?

    Enchantment (25)
    4x Elephant Grass
    4x Enchantress's Presence
    1x Mirri's Guile
    1x Mystic Remora
    1x Seal of Primordium
    4x Seal of Removal
    4x Utopia Sprawl
    4x Wild Growth
    2x Words of Wind
    Sorcery (4)
    4x Green Sun's Zenith
    Land (20)
    1x Dryad Arbor
    9x Forest
    2x Island
    4x Misty Rainforest
    2x Tropical Island
    1x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Windswept Heath
    Creature (11)
    4x Argothian Enchantress
    4x Cloud of Faeries
    2x Eternal Witness
    1x Herald of the Pantheon
    Sideboard (15)
    1x Carpet of Flowers
    3x Force of Will
    1x Gaddock Teeg
    1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
    1x Lignify
    2x Mystic Remora
    1x Nissa, Vital Force
    1x Reclamation Sage
    2x Seal of Primordium
    2x Surgical Extraction

  17. #557

    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    I saw someone suggested knight of autumn. In the green white version, do you think this could replace both kitchen rinks and rec sage in the sideboard? If so, is emrakul worthy of the open slot? Or are there better options in the wish sideboard?

  18. #558
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Enchantress

    Knight of Autumn is a great card, even maindeck. It does act as pseudo Finks and Reclamation Sage.

    I would not play Emrakul in UG Enchantress, there is no need for a win con if your opponent has no permanents. It is a wasted slot.

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