Isn't Dream Halls still just worse than Hive Mind? Both are two-card combos which rely on an enchantment + sorcery spell to win. Dream Halls is seems easily hated out, can help your opponent, will have more MD dead draws and even with this new card, and doesn't get to play 8 counterspells that cost zero like Hive Mind can. Dream Halls doesn't die to Stifle, but I guess that's all it has going for it.
I have every desire to troll people at Locals with a Life from the Loam / Natural Order deck featuring Borborygmos...
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Enter the Infinite looks very interesting - could be a great reason to dust off my Dream Halls deck and try this in it.
The biggest problem with the old False Cure, Beacon of Immortality win-con, was that should either get countered, we scoop due to having only one of either in our hand. Enter the Infinite negates this problem...and works VERY well with Laboratory Maniac as an alternative win-con.
Enter the Infinite also has to be the closest to a Bruce Lee movie title in MTG.
Please educate me if I'm wrong....
Okay so...
Enter the Infinite is a Wincon in Dream Halls, and a potential Wish-win in High Tide decks.
Hellkite Tyrant is clearly comedy gold in EDH, and is also comical against Affinity.
Aurelia is probably the new best RW Commander. Relentless Assault each turn? YES PLEASE!
Borboygmos Enraged should probably be meatier than he is. Those abilities, though, are fun. Doe sit interect with Commander damage, though?
Domri Rade is probably going to be the chase Mythic of the set. He's ridonkulous in Kessig Wolf Run decks. Doublestrike, trample, haste AND hexproof? Like your creatures weren't going to hit your opponent anyway.
I like Aurelia. She and Borborygmos are really well-designed and have fun abilities, unlike Enter the Infinite which design is not only stupid, but downright insulting.
Considering there's a combat phase after the first combat phase, it's harder to abuse her ability with Karakas, but let's say you have the following setup:
Swing with Aurelia, deal combat damage, Momentary Blink/Cloudshift her ass, then swing again. Considering she should treated as a new card, she should swing for the first time this turn again, giving you overall 3 combat phases, right?
I wonder if I should play Enter the Infinite in my 1000 card + highlander deck . The dragon and the multicolour cards definitely go in.
On a more serious note, too bad that the PW is not GW, as he would be pure gold in maverick with relevant abilites both against aggro and control. Maybe I go back to splashing red.
Somehow people always flame at S&T, but S&T isn't dominating the meta. It's even moved out of the DTB section. I don't think that Enter the Infinite will change anything.
Maybe they are gonna print even more broken stuff like when Urza's Legacy was printed with Memory Jar. That time WotC wanted to undo that printing. You could bring that card back to the store and receive a new Urza's Legacy booster.
I don't think people realize that show and tell can be replaced for the most part.
Eureka is a bit harder to cast, but entirely reasonable for a combo deck, and it can put any permanent into play. Hypergenesis in a control shell or off a cascade does essentially the same thing but again slightly slower and harder to cast.
Gamekeeper, pattern of rebirth, Animal Magnetism, polymorph, etc. can all cheat an emrakul into play fairly easily.
Plus, of course, reanimator is a deck that works on a similar principle of cheat a giant thing into play that wins the game.
These cards are all worse than show and tell, which is why the deck is show and tell, not hypergenesis or Eureka, but banning show and tell doesn't kill the strategy, it just makes it harder to play.
Playing Legacy: Landstill ProsperAtog ArmageddonStax
Don't forget the option of hard casting in some decks. Grim Monolith turn 2 for a turn 3 Hive Mind for example. Show and Tell is sometimes just acceleration not always a way to cheat a card that is "uncastable". I mean there're other accelerators that can take Show and Tell spot ( marginally ).
@Enter the Infinite : I thought it was a joke lol I googled... and oh well... I want to play Dream Halls so bad >_<
Omniscience, Dream Halls, Show and Tell, Enter the Infinite, Brainstorm, Force of Will, etc.
But that's all that is really necessary--make it harder to play, change the colors. Green isn't red, that's a huge deal, they then look towards tri-color which makes their mana base less consistent. Even an extra turn, is sometimes all that is needed against SNT to win.
Also, many of those other cards are heinously bad, but for the good ones, they're generally slower and not blue, which is key.
Is making it green really going to be that big an issue? Blue with green for eureka and a splash of red for wish and grapeshot isn't that bad - brainstorm and ponder find you your lands just as easily as they find combo pieces, fetches smooth out your mana and they run a lot of fetches already, and they run lotus petals already that they can crack for R or G.
Is it worse? absolutely. Does it kill the deck? not really.
My point was just that banning show and tell won't remove these absurd cards like omniscience and emrakul from legacy. We are, unfortunately, stuck with them for the foreseeable future.
Playing Legacy: Landstill ProsperAtog ArmageddonStax
Its a big deal. Going from two to three colors, your win con is no longer in your main color, you need double green, its slower, these things all add up together to make the strategy a lot more susceptible to hate / mana denial / aggressive decks.
Its still a strategy for sure but it will be a lot more fair.
I wonder if Enter the Infinite is part of a cycle. I imagine the white counterpart would be something like this:
Enter the Heavens
Sorcery
You gain 100 life. At the beginning of your next upkeep, if you have 100 or more life, you win the game.
On a side note, I'm hoping the new Gideon will be very Legacy playable. One of the banners for Gatecrash features Gideon Jura, hence my speculation.
Last edited by Shawon; 11-18-2012 at 02:57 PM.
Right, but then we won't have a card that essentially says '2U Sorcery: Add 15 or 4BBBB or 7UUU to your mana pool.' Eureka is about on power level with Natural Order, which means, not as big of a problem.
Griselbrand in Reanimator is fair. Emrakul in Cloudpost or Elves or whatever is fair. Omniscience hard-cast via High Tide is fair. What isn't really fair is a deck that only needs to play 1 or 2 colors, and can reliably cantrip/tutor for its 2U win condition (which it often cast on the 2nd or 3rd turn, with counterspell backup.)
I mean really, they can just stop beating around the bush and print some dumb card like 'Holy Grail - 20 - Artifact - When ~this~ ETB, you win the game'. And yet even if that's the case, people will still probably defend the legality of Show and Tell by saying stuff like 'yeah, well, the trigger can be Stifled', or 'you can just play 8+ discard spells'. I think its existence puts an unhealthy constraint on the viability and construction of a ton of deck archetypes.
There is a point when people should just accept the fact that this card has the same design flaw as something like Tinker. Maybe at the time it was ~almost~ okay, but everything that has been printed in the years since has made it better suited for a Vintage environment.'
And yeah, Enter the Infinite isn't really a prime example of a card fit for abuse, but it led me onto this tangent.
Banning Survival didn't get rid of Vengevine. Instead, people discovered that the card was not very good without a broken tutor to enable it. Despite the initial outcry about Wizards banning the wrong card, Vengevine hasn't seen play outside of a couple of unpopular, niche, Dredge-esque decks since then. So much for your stupidly overpowered modern creature, eh?
Hypergenesis may be a card, but unless you're Caleb Durward, it's probably not a card you should be playing. Eureka is like Hypergenesis but with the notable drawbacks of costing a bunch of mana and not having tons of effective "tutors" via the cascade mechanic. Natural Order is probably not good enough for the modern Legacy format. People might go back to playing Dream Halls or Hive Mind and just try to hardcast those cards, but those strategies are significantly more beatable and also less powerful than SnT. Sneak Attack minus the SnT component does not seem very good to me.
Banning SnT effectively bans Emrakul, Grisellybear, Omniscience, and a handful of other cards that will then cost too much effort to cheat into play. People will still try to make them work, but on nowhere near the scale they do now.
He's Boros? Nice. Hopefully his card text will start out with this:
"Gideon ~ cannot be countered"
An uncounterable planeswalker would be pretty damn nice, but I don't think it will happen. None of the planeswalkers printed so far have guild watermarks so I don't think Gideon 2.0 printed in any color combination would have them either, thus they probably wouldn't be a part in any guild cycle.
EDIT: I checked the MTGS thread on the spoilers, and so far the consensus is that Gideon has an affiliation with the Boros and is not necessarily Boros himself, so he may be just a planeswalker.
Last edited by Shawon; 11-18-2012 at 07:43 PM.
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