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Thread: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

  1. #41

    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    So, there was another JK Tournament, the largest eternal ones in Germany, this weekend. It was won by Guillaume Perbet with Junk, the perfekt metacall to a Field full of BUG and other Midrange stuff.



    I played the Death Rite deck again, piloting it to a 6-2, just enough for the T16.

    If you are interested, my current decklist looks like this (beside two slots I already changed, I played this list at the JK):

    Maindeck:
    4x Misty Rainforest
    4x Flooded Strand
    2x Polluted Delta
    3x Underground Sea
    3x Tropical Island
    3x Tundra

    4x Delver of Secrets
    4x Deathrite Shaman
    2x Tarmogoyf
    1x Snapcaster Mage
    4x Geist of Saint Traft

    1x Sylvan Library
    4x Brainstorm
    3x Swords to Plowshares
    3x Daze
    4x Abrupt Decay
    2x Force of Will
    3x Inquisition of Kozilek
    1x Thoughtseize
    1x Unearth
    4x Ponder

    Sideboard:
    1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1x Karakas
    2x Vendilion Clique
    1x Engineered Explosives
    1x Umezawa’s Jitte
    1x Spell Pierce
    2x Envelop
    1x Golgari Charm
    1x Force of Will
    1x Thoughtseize
    3x Lingering Souls

    My opponents played BUG, BUG, Reanimator, Miracles, Stoneblade, Junk, Jund, ANT.
    I never had any problems with the BUG deck except for an early Confidant with protection. The Deathrites were pretty useless for my opponents in the face of my own ones and the Geist (also, the Library is so amazing, I don't know why the BUG lists were cutting it)
    The Reanimator was very mean in playing only Exhume and Show and Tell as reanimate spells, but I guess sometimes you just lose to that.
    Jund is a new threat in a BUG dominated meta because of the Punishing Grove, but again, this does not solve their Geist problem.

    For additional informations about this tournament - like T8 decklists - you can go to:
    http://pmtg-forum.de/wbb2/thread.php...tuser=0&page=1

    Again, for any questions, I will gladly help ;)


    PS: I still don't think the Deathrite is the real problem in the BUG MU, so Linvala doesn't look that great. It is a roleplayer, but what kills you is the Confidant or the Delver. But going for a threat that avoids the Decay is the way I went as well - see Jace.

  2. #42
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    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Thanks for the update.

    I've been running the following list, with very good results - I think I'm 5-1 in MTGO 2-mans. I lost last night to BUG Tempo, getting him to low life both games and then losing to Wasteland, Jitte, and Shardless Agent :(

    Here's my list:
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Tundra
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Scrubland
    1 Bayou

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Tarmogoyf
    1 Vendilion Clique

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Thoughtseize

    4 Daze
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Sylvan Library

    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Batterskull

    Sideboard
    1 Envelop
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Thoughtseize
    3 Lingering Souls
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Perish
    4 Force of Will
    1 Engineered Explosives

    In the main deck, the V. Clique spot is the 'flex spot.' I've tried running Liliana and L. Souls in that spot.

    I've also considered running 4 Dark Confidants. I would cut 3 SFM plus Batterskull.

    I recently added Maelstrom Pulse and Perish to the sideboard. Pulse is a catch-all, and works against cards like Jace. Perish may seem a bit strange in a deck that runs 7 green creatures, but it stops Knight of the Reliquary, Scavenging Ooze, and opposing Tarmogoyfs (all creatures that have given me trouble in the past.)
    "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

  3. #43
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    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Quote Originally Posted by Muxi View Post
    For additional informations about this tournament - like T8 decklists - you can go to:
    http://pmtg-forum.de/wbb2/thread.php...tuser=0&page=1
    Does this link include deck lists? I couldn't find them.
    "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

  4. #44

    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Yes there are, but pretty much on the bottom. You have to scroll through all the pairings and standings, which were posted before the T8 results.

    I thought about a Perish too, but not because of opposing Goyfs - with 7 maindeck removal plus my own ones I never had a problem - but for Mongoose.
    What you may want to consider is, that I changed one Thoughtseize to a third Inquisition. The lifeloss now really matters in a world full of Delver and Deathrites. Also, your spellcount is relatively low, does your Delver keep the work up?
    Plus, the additional land in the SB is really good, you should try it out against BUG and RUG. Maybe the Karakas doesn't work that well without Geist, but maybe there is another utility land to consider besides Cavern of Souls? Although a friend of mine played my old list in the same event and he said, the Cavern was amazing, killing CB on its own when drawn.
    Are there really enough targets for the Pulse to be relevant, which doesn't get affected by Decay? Sure, Batterskull and Jace are pretty nasty but I found myself being able to handle them some other way - mostly with Daze, Clique or Force.

  5. #45
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    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Quote Originally Posted by Muxi View Post
    Yes there are, but pretty much on the bottom. You have to scroll through all the pairings and standings, which were posted before the T8 results.
    Thank you. I found them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muxi View Post
    I thought about a Perish too, but not because of opposing Goyfs - with 7 maindeck removal plus my own ones I never had a problem - but for Mongoose.
    Very good point. Also a benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muxi View Post
    What you may want to consider is, that I changed one Thoughtseize to a third Inquisition. The lifeloss now really matters in a world full of Delver and Deathrites.
    I run two main deck sources of life gain - Jitte and Batterskull, so the life loss has not been as relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muxi View Post
    Also, your spellcount is relatively low, does your Delver keep the work up?
    You run 25 instants/sorceries, I run 23. With 4 Brainstorms and 4 Ponders, plus a little bit of luck off of the top of my deck, it really hasn't been an issue. In post-board games vs. combo decks (the times that I really want Delver to flip the quickest), my instant / sorcery count goes up to 28, sometimes 29, and that has been more than enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muxi View Post
    Plus, the additional land in the SB is really good, you should try it out against BUG and RUG. Maybe the Karakas doesn't work that well without Geist, but maybe there is another utility land to consider besides Cavern of Souls? Although a friend of mine played my old list in the same event and he said, the Cavern was amazing, killing CB on its own when drawn.
    What does he name with Cavern? Spirit or Cleric? None of the deck's creatures share creature types, besides 'Wizard' with Delver and Clique. I don't like Cavern because it shuts off so many of our instants and sorceries. Is CB lock relevant when we run Abrupt Decay?

    I would like to run another land, but I can't find one that I like. Gemstone Mine, City of Brass, Forbidden Orchard, and Undiscovered Paradise all have their downsides. I started running Scrubland and Bayou to combat Wasteland. I've considered running a Savannah. I would run Life from the Loam before a 20th land.

    I do miss the lack of Wasteland in this deck. Opposing Karakas, Academy Ruins, and Riptide Laboratory have been difficult to deal with over long games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muxi View Post
    Are there really enough targets for the Pulse to be relevant, which doesn't get affected by Decay? Sure, Batterskull and Jace are pretty nasty but I found myself being able to handle them some other way - mostly with Daze, Clique or Force.
    Good points. Pulse is a nice catch-all vs. a ton of random stuff, like Lingering Soul's tokens, Wild Growth's (enchantress), Entreat Tokens, etc. I ran a 4th Abrupt Decay in that slot, but decided to change it to handle some 4+ permanents / multiple copies. Pulse and Perish are the 14th and 15th cards I added to the sideboard, so they are the most likely to be replaced.
    "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

  6. #46

    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Muxi.....

    Did the 2x FOW main deck really help out, or do you think those 2 slots could be used for something different? (Maybe the 4th Daze, STP, Stifle, 1 more Unearth, Lingering? etc?) I know FOW is amazing in every way, but running 2 main just seems a little low....unless thats the new tech. I was just curious if your match ups really needed the 2x FOW or would you have wanted something different in its place?

  7. #47

    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    So maybe your own Wasteland is a possibility for a SB slot, so that you can go up to the 20th land but also have an answer to some problems like Maze? I am pretty comfortable with the Karakas, but I run the Geist so it serves multiple services.

    I agree with you on the Equipment, so maybe you even want the third Thoughtseize for things that you now fight with the Pulse. Then you free uo one additional slot in the SB. For opposing Souls tokens I now run the Charm, which is an allstar against Junk and Maverick and fights Supreme Verdicts as well. Maybe you want to consider it, if these are a problem.

    For the Forces: First to say, I am not sure in any way of these slots. But I want to have some game preboard against the unfair decks and this is just the best card for that. Sure, it's not the best thing to have in the midrange MUs, but it is not the worst. If you can hold board advantage just for one turn, then the whole game turns from this back and forth to a matchup in which the opponent is always on his backfoot.
    So to answer your question, I really liked the two and won't change it in near future. I don't think you can ever run the full playset in this meta. If you want to give up your combo matchup in the main, then I suggest changing the slots to the forth Daze and the second Unearth (in the Geist build) or probably either a Liliana or a Lingering Souls (in the SFM build).

  8. #48

    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    In case anyone is interested in this and missed it, Caleb Durward wrote an article about 4-color Thresh here.

    He has a (tested, tuned) BUG+R deck with 3 of each U/x dual and 8 fetches (0 Waste) that looks like Bug Tempo + Bolt (instead of discard), and a (starting point, untested) BUG+W deck with Meddling Mage and Gitaxian Probe. Both are interesting. Check it out.

  9. #49
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    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Thanks for the link and comments.

    Caleb's article is good. In the first comment at the bottom, he includes the list that he would run if he played at GP Denver today. Here it is:

    // Lands
    4 [ON] Polluted Delta.
    2 [R] Volcanic Island.
    3 [U] Tropical Island.
    3 [R] Underground Sea.
    2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn.
    4 [JGC] Flooded Strand.

    // Creatures
    3 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman.
    3 [OD] Nimble Mongoose.
    4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets.
    3 [FUT] Tarmogoyf.

    // Spells
    4 [MM] Brainstorm.
    3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay.
    4 [PD2] Lightning Bolt.
    4 [NE] Daze.
    4 [AL] Force of Will.
    4 [MPR] Ponder.
    2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
    3 [DKA] Thought Scour.
    1 [R] Counterspell.

    // Sideboard
    SB: 2 [M10] Pithing Needle.
    SB: 2 [7E] Engineered Plague.
    SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb.
    SB: 4 [B] Red Elemental Blast.
    SB: 1 [MBS] Go for the Throat.
    SB: 2 [6E] Dread of Night.
    SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt.
    SB: 1 [NPH] Dismember.
    SB: 1 [JGC] Vendilion Clique.

    I'm surprised Caleb hasn't tried Lingering Souls in his W version of the deck. Lingering Souls is an MVP.

    It's also interesting how proven players like Caleb can run 3 DRS along with 3 Nimble Mongoose and not get blasted for it. I was running a deck with 4 DRS and 4 Nimble Mongoose and people kept saying 'you can't run Nimble and DRS in the same list' and 'DRS is an automatic 4-of.' I guess the Though Scours help to combat that.
    "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

  10. #50
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    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Wizard View Post
    Thanks for the link and comments.

    Caleb's article is good. In the first comment at the bottom, he includes the list that he would run if he played at GP Denver today. Here it is:

    // Lands
    4 [ON] Polluted Delta.
    2 [R] Volcanic Island.
    3 [U] Tropical Island.
    3 [R] Underground Sea.
    2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn.
    4 [JGC] Flooded Strand.

    // Creatures
    3 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman.
    3 [OD] Nimble Mongoose.
    4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets.
    3 [FUT] Tarmogoyf.

    // Spells
    4 [MM] Brainstorm.
    3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay.
    4 [PD2] Lightning Bolt.
    4 [NE] Daze.
    4 [AL] Force of Will.
    4 [MPR] Ponder.
    2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
    3 [DKA] Thought Scour.
    1 [R] Counterspell.

    // Sideboard
    SB: 2 [M10] Pithing Needle.
    SB: 2 [7E] Engineered Plague.
    SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb.
    SB: 4 [B] Red Elemental Blast.
    SB: 1 [MBS] Go for the Throat.
    SB: 2 [6E] Dread of Night.
    SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt.
    SB: 1 [NPH] Dismember.
    SB: 1 [JGC] Vendilion Clique.

    I'm surprised Caleb hasn't tried Lingering Souls in his W version of the deck. Lingering Souls is an MVP.

    It's also interesting how proven players like Caleb can run 3 DRS along with 3 Nimble Mongoose and not get blasted for it. I was running a deck with 4 DRS and 4 Nimble Mongoose and people kept saying 'you can't run Nimble and DRS in the same list' and 'DRS is an automatic 4-of.' I guess the Though Scours help to combat that.
    Seems like a BUG deck with a red splash for lightning bolt and REB in the sideboard.

    I'd want to play Stifle in that deck, to protect my dual lands from Wasteland, cripple my opponent's manabase, and Stifle Miracle / Ancestral Vision / Goblins... Caleb explains in the article that it conflicts with Deathrite Shaman, but I still want to fit it in.

  11. #51
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    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Quote Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt View Post
    Seems like a BUG deck with a red splash for lightning bolt and REB in the sideboard.

    I'd want to play Stifle in that deck, to protect my dual lands from Wasteland, cripple my opponent's manabase, and Stifle Miracle / Ancestral Vision / Goblins... Caleb explains in the article that it conflicts with Deathrite Shaman, but I still want to fit it in.
    Caleb also doesn't run and discard. The main reason Stifle isn't in my list is because it conflicts with Deathrite, Thoughseize, and Inquisition of Kozilek. Does anyone know how Caleb did in the GP?

    Muxi and I recommend the W splash over the R splash. Lingering Souls and Swords to Plowshares are good.
    "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

  12. #52

    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=9909&iddeck=72251

    4c Deathrite at first place out of 53 players. Looks good to me. Definitely something I would play.

  13. #53
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    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Quote Originally Posted by .Ix View Post
    http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=9909&iddeck=72251

    4c Deathrite at first place out of 53 players. Looks good to me. Definitely something I would play.
    This is a very interesting mix - thanks for sharing!
    "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

  14. #54

    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Wizard View Post
    This is a very interesting mix - thanks for sharing!
    Tried this deck with +3 Knight minus geist and intuition, and i did terribly against merfolk and hexproof aggro. Dealing with only one threat at a time isnt good enough against these decks. The deck felt great, however. Resolving a turn 1 deathrite against reanimator is too good.

  15. #55

    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    What do you guys think of this deck? seems quite fun

    http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10958

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Stoneforge Mystic
    Creatures [16]
    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Lingering Souls
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Thoughtseize
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    Spells [21]
    2 Bayou
    2 Marsh Flats
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Scrubland
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

  16. #56
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    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Quote Originally Posted by mike1987 View Post
    What do you guys think of this deck? seems quite fun

    http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10958

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Stoneforge Mystic
    Creatures [16]
    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Lingering Souls
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Thoughtseize
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    Spells [21]
    2 Bayou
    2 Marsh Flats
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Scrubland
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland
    There are a few 'issues' I see with this deck, some of which Conley discusses in his article.

    The first, and most glaring, is the life loss. Confidant, Thoughseize, Fetch... oww! That hurts!

    Second, is the mana. You want to hit BB for Hymn and Liliana, UU for Jace, W for SFM and LS, and G for Abrupt Decay. Plus, the deck is trying to pack 4 Wastelands?

    Third, only 2 SFM? Why run SFM without Batterskull? Cut the Dark Confidants, up the SFM count, add Batterskull, add Ponder.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    This archtype is going in two directions right now. There is the tempo version - light on land, lower mana curve, more cantrips, and there is the control version. I think that the tempo version is where you want to be. You want to win the game by turn 10. The control version is nice, you have the perfect toolbox to fit any situation, but I don't feel that Conley's list does well in a long game and I feel that it has too much mana unreliability to consistently do well in the shorter games.
    "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

  17. #57

    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Yeah, I just tried running that list posted in post #49 Water_Wizard. On MODO that is, against a good friend. Played 5 matches went 1-4 against RUG Delver with Stifle and Chain Lightning.

    I don't think this archetype belongs here. It needs more work before it's ready IMO.

  18. #58
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    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Quote Originally Posted by NidStyles View Post
    Yeah, I just tried running that list posted in post #49 Water_Wizard. On MODO that is, against a good friend. Played 5 matches went 1-4 against RUG Delver with Stifle and Chain Lightning.

    I don't think this archetype belongs here. It needs more work before it's ready IMO.
    Run the list in post #42 or the list in the opening post if you like tempo. Run the list in post #52 if you like mid-range.

    Caleb's list is tuned to a combo/control heavy meta, thus, it is going to do poorly against tempo. Caleb's list runs R, you want W.

    I've run the list in post #42 on MODO and done well. Admittedly, mana-screw is the deck's biggest weakness (and game 1 against combo because the deck does not pack any main deck FOW.). However, run the list in #42, not #49. You want W, not R, in the MODO environment.

    White is so much better than red vs. tempo because it opens up SFM, Lingering Souls, and STP. If you cast and flashback a Lingering Souls vs. RUG, your chances of winning improve dramatically.
    "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

  19. #59
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    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    So what happened here... did this deck just show up for a month and die?

  20. #60

    Re: 4-Color Deathrite Shaman

    Quote Originally Posted by mini1337s View Post
    So what happened here... did this deck just show up for a month and die?
    Yeah that is what I am thinking, it's mana-base is beyond shaky. Experienced Legacy players know how to attack it just as easily as the old 4-color Thresh decks.

    I have been trying this deck and for the life of me I can not find a way to beat Enchantress with any of these lists. This deck is just plain cold dead to any decent Enchantress draw.

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