What happens if I choose to draw 2 additional cards with Sylvan Library. What happens if I replace all 3 draws with
a) Dredge?
b) the ability of Words of War/Wind?
Do I have to pay the life or not as I didn't actually draw any cards?
You don't have to pay life if you replace all draws by another effect.
Gatherer says:
If you choose to draw two cards, then replace one or more of those draws with some other effect, the rest of Sylvan Library's ability still happens. If you've actually drawn only one card that turn, you must choose that card and either pay 4 life or put it on top of your library. If you haven't actually drawn any cards that turn, the rest of the ability has no effect.
One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Awesome thanks!
I have a very specific rules question for the Life from the Loam/Sylvan interaction which I haven't seen explained anywhere yet.
So I have a Sylvan in play and 1 Loam in GY. Let's call top of my library A, B, C, D, E, (1st - 5th top cards of library) etc (since numbers will be used for quantity here).
Example 1:
I draw A. I want to dredge B, and draw C. Is this possible? Does dredge B trigger first (thus B, C, D go into GY and I am actually drawing E) or dredge B and draw C happen simultaneously; thus I have A and C in my hand and B, D, E go into GY? Just wondering how this works because of the "draw 2".. is this considered a simultaneous effect, or is each draw/dredge decision made in order?
Example 2:
Somewhat of a reverse situation. Say I want to dredge A, that happens before the "draw 2" of Sylvan fires because that uses the stack, correct? So A, B and C go to GY and my "draw 2" is D and E (which I can then also dredge if I have more than 1 LftL in GY)?
Thanks for the help!
in general, each time you draw multiple cards in Magic, it is actually "draw a card" repeated that many times. Because draws always happen sequentially (E.G. they'll all be revealed if you have a courser of kruphix in play), and a replacement effect effectively replaces an action, any combination or ordering of your sylvan triggers and draw step with dredge (or any other replacement effect for the draw) would be in units of <draw the top card of your library> and <put the top 3 cards of your library into your graveyard>. In other words, with cards A-I, you can either dredge all three (A-I in graveyard), draw-dredge-dredge (A drawn, B-G in graveyard) and the corresponding 8 life payment, dredge-draw-dredge (A-C, E-G in graveyard, D drawn) or dredge-dredge-draw (A-F in graveyard, G drawn). In all cases except where EVERY draw has been replaced, you will be required to pay 4/8 life for the sylvan unless you put that many cards (of those drawn this turn) back on top. Note that this means that if you replace 2 out of the three draws, you MUST pay 4 life or put the drawn card back, and if you only replace one draw, you must pay 4 life for each of the other two cards or put them back on top.
From your example, it is impossible to draw A, Dredge B, and Draw C. Likewise, if you dredge your first draw, A,B, and C will go to your graveyard and the top of your library will be E, at which point your sylvan library is resolving and you must choose whether to draw for it, and if so whether you will replace one or more of those draws and/or place any drawn cards back on top.
Just to clear something up first, Dredge never triggers. It is a replacement effect and doesn't use the stack, so once you're in your drawstep, if you decide to replace a draw with a dredge your opponent has no chance to respond.Originally Posted by justfortherecord
-EXAMPLE 1- It isn't possible to draw A, dredge B, and then draw C. When you replace a draw with dredge it will happen at that exact moment. So how it works is you go into your drawstep, Library trigger goes on the stack, and you either draw or dredge for the turn. Then the Library trigger will resolve and you can either draw or dredge for each card. So in this scenario, you'd end up with A, E, and the card you dredged back(loam). Then to finish the Library trigger you have to put back A and E unless you pay 4 or 8 life. Note that you cannot put back the card you dredged back since you didn't actually "draw" it.
-EXAMPLE 2-
You draw for turn before Library resolves, and yes Library does use the stack since it's a triggered ability. So if you decide to dredge before the Library goes off, you'd dredge A, B, C, and end up with D and E from Library. Since those are the only two cards you've drawn this turn you have to either put them (D and E) back on top or pay 4 or 8 life. If you were to dredge back 3 loams using your drawstep and your Library, you wouldn't have to put any cards back since you haven't "drawn" any cards.
Sylvan Library can be confusing/misleading, but there are some sweet interactions that are possible. It gets even more confusing if you throw a Brainstorm in the mix.
EDIT- Bah I got ninja'd!!! Good answer amalek0, I'm gonna leave mine as well just in case.
Last edited by HammafistRoob; 06-10-2014 at 03:36 AM. Reason: Ninjered
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly."Got any trade boogas?"
Each draw is separate action. (When you draw - say - three cards, it means you draw 1+1+1 card.) Dredge is a replacement effect for draw. Thus each dredge is a separate action.
In you example you draw A. (Easypeasy situation so far.) Then you skip drawing B and dredge LftL instead, putting three top cards into your gy as a part of the dredge cost. Then you wish to draw C... but it's no more on the top of your library, it fell to grave when you dredged Loam.
Yep, that happens before Sylvan Library. A, B, C go to gy, and you may either draw two cards from library, or dredge again, even if the dredge cards weren't in gy before the particular dredge is about to happen: remember, each draw = separate action, thus each dredge = separate action, so if the first dredge (action) puts a card with dredge (keyword) into your gy, you may dredge (action) again.
Please someone turn my post into English.
edit: Rob beat me to it.
BDP
Great responses, thanks so much!
Learned something new about Courser too, had been considering him for my latest build of Lands.
Bonus fact: when you plan on casting Brainstorm in your Upkeep and using Sylvan Library in your draw step, the only way to go about this properly is to call over a judge and monitor which cards you actually drew this turn with BS and SL.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
Didn't see it covered...but with multiple libraries, can i replace all the draws from the libraries or only from one library ? :)
There's nothing that would prevent you from using the replacement effects of your choice for all the draws.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
Nevermind! I just discovered that they errataed it since the last time i used it :)
The fun thing happens when Vendilion Clique is involved.
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