[Deck] Jund

[Dice_Box]

Bob, BBE, Lili, Library and Punishing Fire are all card advantage engines we have. I do not feel like this deck needs TC and if I wanted to play TC, why would I not just play BUG?

[iamajellydonut]

Bob, BBE, Lili, Library and Punishing Fire are all card advantage engines we have. I do not feel like this deck needs TC and if I wanted to play TC, why would I not just play BUG?

Agreed. We have multiple sources of card advantage. Treasure Cruise is not a unique snowflake in this aspect and it actually manages to hurt the deck by simply existing. Clunkier draws. Higher cmc. Completely going bonkers on graveyard reliance.

If you really want to splash blue, do it for the reason that everything else does. Brainstorm and Ponder.

Looking at this as an option for the GP. Would the mainboard Diabolic Edict be better off as a Golgari Charm? I feel like in a heavy Treasure Cruise meta that the Golgari Charm has more options to sweep Elementals along with True-Name. I thought about Jund Charm and I like the pyroclasm, but the other modes seem less impactful. The graveyard removal is nice but seems like a waste, and it will get filled up in time regardless.

I'm personally a fan of Golgari Charm as a flex card. I think the card is flawless regardless of what the "meta" says.

Also, I agree with you on the Jund Charm.

[razvan]

I think Jund Charm is *really* good. While the 2 +1/+1 counters are really not that big a deal (save shaman/elf from bolt, save bob from punishing fire, etc), the other two modes are very nice.

The 3cc is a problem, that's why having a miser's one is where it's at, but eh.

[sdematt]

I think Jund Charm is *really* good. While the 2 +1/+1 counters are really not that big a deal (save shaman/elf from bolt, save bob from punishing fire, etc), the other two modes are very nice.

The 3cc is a problem, that's why having a miser's one is where it's at, but eh.

Or just play the miser's REB. Counters Cruises, Jaces, TNN's, destroys Delvers, juliennes fries....

-Matt

[hovercraft]

Could a burning wish board be useful in Jund? Or would it be too slow

[razvan]

Doesn't fix any problem. It's slow. Use Maelstrom Pulse instead. Unless you REALLY want to kill a land.

[Claymore]

Took this list to a GPT, beat burn and tezz, lost to UR Delver (game 1 he stormed off with swiftspear to take me from 13 to 0, game 2 I had him but he got double treasure cruise late and killed me), drew against high tide (aggressive sylvan game one got me 3 hymns and a Thoughtseize, game 2 I had to mull to 5 to find anything remotely keepable, no lander then triple wasteland and nothing. Almost had it but he had counters for my hymn, chains, and surgical).

Is wasteland really that necessary in this deck? Our mana needs are very tight early on. Also, REB is really good, I feel like I want 3 in the sideboard.

2 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Dark Confidant
1 Golgari Charm
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Punishing Fire
2 Sylvan Library
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Bloodbraid Elf
Sideboard:

2 Duress
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Golgari Charm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Engineered Plague
1 Jund Charm

[razvan]

So I took this list to the Legacy champs in Philadelphia:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze

4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Sylvan Library

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Wasteland
3 Bayou
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Badlands
1 Forest
2 Swamp

3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Golgari Charm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Jund Charm
1 Thoughtseize
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Krosan Grip
2 Hymn to Tourach


The rest of Team Serious convinced me to play 2 Chains maindeck, and because we are all crazy, I thought it was a great great idea.

I am horrible with names and remembering, so I have to get home and glance at my life pad if I still have it. But until then a few things:

0) This is the tournament that reminds me why I like playing magic. I played 19 rounds between the 2 days, and I have had 19 great opponents. They were polite, humored me when I made stupid jokes (some might have even laughed honestly), and really fun to play against. It sucked that they were all better than me, but c'est la vie.

1) I went 6-4 on Saturday, and 5-4 on Sunday, after starting 4-1 both days. Fairly annoying, but again, what can you do. I lost 4 of the last 6 rounds in both days combined. Some unfortunate events, some bad plays, some really questionable plays.

2) The deck changes themselves and how some cards performed:

Bloodbraid Elf was rarely cast. The format is quite fast and a 4 mana creature with a random spell is not as great anymore. You still need 3 because there are some times you have to chance getting ahead, but unfortunately missing is a problem. Needing a removal and getting a discard, and so on, is a problem. I do not know a solution for that. I actively sided it out against UR delver for more removal and such.

Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant. Still great.

3 Goyf / 1 Ooze split. Both are fantastic creatures that deal well with the world. I am fairly sure I would need a 4th Goyf in there somehow.

4 Liliana of the Veil. I think the race for best planeswalker is closer than ever. Liliana is still #2, but not by far. She over-performed, even when she was just a Raven's Crime or a Cruel Edict.

4 Lightning Bolt. Perfectly necessary as always. The need to kill things on turn 1 has never been greater.

3 Abrupt Decay. Still great.
3 Punishing Fire. Still great.

2 Maelstrom Pulse. This card pulled its weight all weekend. Having two of them maindeck has been great. Probably cannot go back. It kills whatever the rest cannot. If we take out the BBE, putting a third in here is not out of the question.

1 Sylvan Library. Did its job. Eli Kassis suggested that a heavy Chains list would benefit more from Sensei's Divining top over Sylvan Library. People should listen to Eli :).

3 Thoughtseize, 2 Chains of Mephistopheles. Originally I had 4/1 split, but the rest of my lunatic team convinced me to go full-out on Chains. Of course the first matches were Red Painter and GW Maverick, but the card is really good. It slows down Delver tremendously, and has a serious effect on control and combo match-ups. The card is bonkers.

SB

3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Golgari Charm
1 Jund Charm
1 Krosan Grip

Fairly obvious so far, these cards were amazing all weekend. Jund Charm killing Stoneforge Mystic allowed me to win a few games. Never drew a REB or Krosan Grip, but I often wish I had.

2 Grafdigger's Cage

Never sided it in. No elves nor graveyard decks. Might have to be something else for Treasure Cruise, given our elves matchup to be ok.

1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Thoughtseize

In case stuff's really drawing cards. They came in a few times, and they were fine.

2 Koth of the Hammer

I never realized I only had 2 mountains instead of 3, so this was a bit aggressive. I only used them once against Marco with Miracles, and he made a mistake by countering it. Otherwise, it's Koth, what do you expect?

Going forward, the Bloodbraid Elf idea needs to be revisited. A 3/2 creature isn't that great, given that you are the control deck in pretty much EVERY SINGLE MATCHUP it seems. Getting a random flip isn't that great.

I would rather try something like Domri Rade, which can use a Goyf to fight something, then have it for blocking. Seems like a good way to clean up UR delver, who beats you by speed. This means that adding a few more creatures will be necessary. Maybe more Oozes, or something beefier? Or maybe even just put in it alongside BBE's... who knows.

Oh, in my first matchup with UR, my opponent cast 3 Treasure Cruises, was about to cast the 4th... and ended the game with zero cards in hand to my 7. Jund. What can you do.

[Claymore]

I usually found Chains to be too much of a tempo loss wire being beat down...But I guess you just play it later?

Am I crazy or is Fire Imp actually a decent card to shoot down a Delver and threaten a trade against young Pyro?

[tescrin]

Going forward, the Bloodbraid Elf idea needs to be revisited. A 3/2 creature isn't that great, given that you are the control deck in pretty much EVERY SINGLE MATCHUP it seems. Getting a random flip isn't that great.

I've been on the "Get rid of BBE" train for a long time (6 months?)

IMO she should be:
-Eidolon of the Great Revel (awesome all the time. Hard on the manabase, so only for a non-punishing version I think)
-Library manipulation (Sylvan or Top.) These make my games so consistent and strong in Junk, with my opinion leaning towards top (especially with how little life gain you get)
-Loam (1 of, it's good, gets random wins. W/e)
-GSZ. Goyf or DRS 5 and 6, scooze 2 and 3
-Pyro. In a brew I had a lot of fun/success with Pyro + Pfire + Loam. It attritioned almost anyone out of the game.

Any of these would up the consistency and speed of the deck outside of random BBE God-cascades.

My preference would likely be some mix of Pyro, and GSZ.

Something like:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
0-3 Green Sun's Zenith
0-4 Young Pyromancer
0-2 Scavenging Ooze

3-4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
0-2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1-2 Maelstrom Pulse
2-3 Sensei's Divining Top
0-1 Life from the Loam

23 lands


I don't know why you'd run 2 swamp honestly. I've been on 1 swamp 1 forest in Junk for 5 or more months and haven't been punished for it at all. Usually I fetch a basic or two early depending on the land base the opponent is using and my opener. I've been a lot more lax about it lately.

I think 24 lands is pretty wrong too. I think 23 is the sweet spot (especially once you get library manipulation in there) and 22 may be doable (I've been on 22 in Junk for a month or two.)


I didn't bring it up much in here because it's heresy; but someone else bringing it up makes me really want to speak up. I honestly think BBE is easily the weakest card in the deck and that the fact she grabs random good cards doesn't make her anything much different than a bad Snapcaster.

I'm not on board with the Chain-Train because but maybe I'll try her in the main again.

[razvan]

23 lands is correct, and 2 swamps was wrong. Wasteland is MUCH less of an issue now. Blood Moon is (I lost game 3 to this round 10 on Saturday because I was OVERLY greedy and foolish), but that can be avoided with better playing and less being stupid. This was from UR delver.

I think a Taiga is possibly necessary. I lost game two of that very same match because of a lack of Taiga.

Chains was just something to try out. 3 might be too many. 2 might be ok, but more testing is necessary.

No Hymn maindeck was correct. While Chains often discarded less than two cards, it invalidated a lot in their hand, slowed the game down to a crawl, and changed the entire game, actually.

Again, this is the situation now. For Jund anyway, the scariest thing is not Treasure Cruise, it's your life total. The UR delver deck seems to be very good at dealing the last few points of damage before you stabilize. As I said, the one player cast 3 of them and still had zero cards in hand to my seven. This sort of puts a damper on the Chains, but that's that.

Monastery Swiftspear is a thing now. That card is a problem, and 4 Bolts isn't enough to deal with it.

[Nuke is Good]

Again, this is the situation now. For Jund anyway, the scariest thing is not Treasure Cruise, it's your life total. The UR delver deck seems to be very good at dealing the last few points of damage before you stabilize. As I said, the one player cast 3 of them and still had zero cards in hand to my seven. This sort of puts a damper on the Chains, but that's that.

Monastery Swiftspear is a thing now. That card is a problem, and 4 Bolts isn't enough to deal with it.

UR Delver has that burn aspect that Jund is soft to. Treasure Cruise can just give them the gas to do it.

In terms of Taylor Swiftspear I've split my bolts with Diabolic edicts, I tried Chainer's edicts but the 7 mana for flashback was too much 90% of the time.

[FoolofaTook]

BBE is more reliable if you're playing Sensei's Divining Top main list. So is Dark Confidant, which basically turns into a 1-sided Howling Mine for you with minimal life loss involved or paying for gas when that's what's better. With fetches and top you can manipulate the BBE play to be consistently back-breaking instead of randomly so.

If you're seeing Jund morph into the Control list in this meta then maybe going whole hog on the control aspects isn't such a bad idea.

3x Sensei's Divining Top, no Sylvan Library, 1 less burn spell, 1 less discard. SDT doesn't combo with Chains of Mephistopheles but it does combo with it if you want to pull Life from the Loam out of your graveyard at the end of your opponent's turn. Just replace the draw with dredge and Chains of Mephistopheles won't trigger.

[big_ticket]

hi guys,im currently missing 5 cards from this deck,is it really good to save money for the chains?thanks

[aluisiocsantos]

Yes, specially now with Treasure Cruise this rampant.

EDIT: That said, actually, what are those 5 cards? Without the meat, you can't actually play jund.

[ironclad8690]

Yes, specially now with Treasure Cruise this rampant.

EDIT: That said, actually, what are those 5 cards? Without the meat, you can't actually play jund.

Someone please make vegan jund a thing

[Nuke is Good]

Since Swiftspear can easily get into 2/3 territory, maybe we should increase our lightning bolt count? As much as I like the punishing fire engine, it may be a bit too slow for such a fast deck.

[iamajellydonut]

Since Swiftspear can easily get into 2/3 territory, maybe we should increase our lightning bolt count? As much as I like the punishing fire engine, it may be a bit too slow for such a fast deck.

What's wrong with just killing the Swiftspear while it's still a 1/2?

[Nuke is Good]

What's wrong with just killing the Swiftspear while it's still a 1/2?

That is true, I've been trying out an older Jund list with Edicts/Lightning Bolts instead of the Punishing Fire engine which has been performing better.

[razvan]

Since Swiftspear can easily get into 2/3 territory, maybe we should increase our lightning bolt count? As much as I like the punishing fire engine, it may be a bit too slow for such a fast deck.

Don't get me started. Playing less than 4 Bolts is a mistake.

I didn't like Punishing Fire for a while, but now that Delver no longer runs Nimble Mongoose, Fire is back again to be really good.

Swiftspear is a problem, but killing YP and Delvers and Mystics and such easily is nice.