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Thread: [Deck] Jund

  1. #2221

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryoclasm View Post
    I liked Raffaele's list a lot!
    Do you guys can give me a hint, what to replace Chains of Mephistopheles with? I was thinking about Dampening Sphere or Choke since miracles and storm are a thing in my meta.
    On the other hand, OminSneak also gives us a lot of trouble.
    TLDR: Sideboard choices, GP Birmingham report, sideboard plan. If you're going to face a lot of storm and miracles damping sphere is a good card versus the first (but they can handle it with Chain of vapor and similar cards), worse vs miracles. I'd go for Choke, maybe.

    I had troubles in deciding what to play in SB for GP Birmingham, I feel the cards the deck needs may be:
    1/2 Chains of Mephistopheles for almost every blue deck and elves
    2/3 Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast
    3 Surgical Extraction (mandatory)
    2 Diabolic Edict (at least) for all the Merit Lage decks and annoying creatures like TNN and huge eldrazis/hazoret/angler. I have considered 1 MD to improve DD matchups but Terminate feels better overall (mostly for Delver mu when tnn or angler are paired with delvers or elemental tokens)
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1/2 Pithing Needle, since we lack blue cantrips
    1 Liliana, The Last Hope
    1 Damping Sphere
    1 Choke
    1/2 Golgari Charm
    1/2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Duress
    2 Collective Brutality
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Life from the loam
    1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

    I decided in the end to play the exact same maindeck list, after considering switching 1 kolaghan's command for 1 Liliana TLH, and go for these 15 in the sideboard:
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Diabolic Edict
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 Toxic Deluge
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Liliana, The Last Hope
    1 Damping Sphere

    Here's my run.
    Turn 1 UW Humility Control. (L) Joe Lossett's decklist, 4 Rest in Peace maindeck. I mulled a lot, ended up 1-2 for my opponent playing Rest in Peace into Humilty into Moat in g3.
    Turn 2 Czech Pile. 1-2. (L) Mulled a lot.
    Turn 3 BUG Food Chain. (W) 2-0, the deck finally started to play.
    Turn 4 Reanimator. (L) Nut draws for my opponent, after discards he topdecked an Unmask taking away my diabolic edict, not much I could do.
    Turn 5 Lands. (W) 2-1, he made few mistakes.
    Turn 6 BUG Nic Fit. (W) 2-0, I felt I was always ahead.
    Turn 7 BUG Control. (W) 2-1. Grindy games, good opponent. The second Chains of Mephistopheles locks him out of game 3 until I find more threats to deploy.
    Turn 8 Reanimator. (L) 1-2. Game 3 on the Draw I had Surgical DRS HTT Liliana 2 lands, he reveals chancellor, duresses my surgical and goes off next turn. Never had a chance to cast Liliana after that.

    Ended up with a mediocre 4-4, really felt the lack of blue cantrips to fix initial hands avoiding mulligans to 5 and to dig for answers in post-sideboard games.

    This was the sideboard plan I made up for the event. I'd be happy if you could share your thoughts and considerations.
    Sneak and show
    - 3 bbe 3 decay 3 bolt 1 push 1 terminate 1 deluge 1 s library
    + 3 surgical 3 pyroblast 2 chains 2 edict 1 damp sphere 2 p needle

    Storm
    - 3 bbe 3 decay 1 push 1 terminate 1 s library
    + 3 surgical 3 pyroblast 2 chains 1 damp sphere

    Dredge
    - 4 liliana otv 4 tourach
    + 3 surgical 2 p needle 1 deluge 2 edict

    Elves
    - 3 bbe 3 lotv 1 s library
    + 2 chains 1 deluge 2 p needle 1 liliana tlh 1 damp sphere

    Reanimator
    - 2 k command 1 push 1 deluge 3 bbe
    + 3 surgical 2 edict 2 p needle

    Depths
    - 3 bbe 1 decay 1 push 1 terminate 1 k command
    + 3 surgical 2 edict 2 p needle

    Infect
    - 3 bbe 1 tourach 1 deluge
    + 3 pyroblast 1 p needle 1 damp sphere

    Death and Taxes
    - 3 tseize 1 tourach 1 liliana otv
    + 1 liliana tlh 2 edict 2 p needle

    Grixis Delver
    - 3 bbe 3 tseize 1 s library
    + 3 pyroblast 2 chains 1 deluge 1 p needle
    (On the draw - 2 liliana otv + 2 edict)

    Miracles
    - 2 k command 1 push 1 terminate 1 s library
    + 2 chains 3 pyroblast

    Lands
    - 3 tseize 1 push 1 terminate 1 deluge 1 bolt
    + 2 edict 2 p needle 3 surgical

    BUG Control/Czech Pile/Team America
    Didn't have an actual plan. Boarded in 2/3 pyroblast and 2 chains almost always + deluge if I saw baleful strix and leovolds. boarded out Tseize on the draw, s library, 1/2 decay and 1 liliana otv at times. Boarded out hymn when I saw wastelands (since the plan is to avoid getting behind turn 1 and 2 fetching for swamp and forest basics).

    Hope this was helpful food for thoughts.

  2. #2222

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Thanks for the detailed report! Always great to see people playing Jund.

    My sideboard lately is similar (though I don't have any Chains :() something like this:
    3 Surgical
    1 Diabolic Edict (I have 1 main as well, no Push or Terminate)
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Liliana TLH (3 Veil, 1 TLH maindeck)
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Damping Sphere
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Scavenging Ooze

    Death and Taxes
    - 3 tseize 1 tourach 1 liliana otv
    + 1 liliana tlh 2 edict 2 p needle
    I feel like Jund wants some Tseize vs DnT doesn't it? Can grab Batterskull etc. I guess the edicts are to get around Mother of Runes? Needles and Lili TLH make sense. I would bring in your 2nd Toxic here too here since DnT can flood the board with X/1s

    Miracles
    - 2 k command 1 push 1 terminate 1 s library
    + 2 chains 3 pyroblast
    I wouldn't side out Sylvan Library in grindy matches like Miracles/Grixis/Czech. That's your only cantrip-like effect. Every turn you have it on the battlefield you are gaining incremental advantage, so the longer the game the more value it brings. I play 1 Sylvan and 1 Mirri's Guile in my list. A card like Oath of Nissa can act as a cantrip if you want more, but it can't grab instants/sorceries/etc. Can help with early land drops though.

    I would also bring in your Liliana the last hope in any long grindy match like Miracles/Czech/etc as well. Can kill Snapcasters, Strix and if you can manage to make an emblem it is very hard to lose after that.

    On Storm:
    Often times in G2/G3 I find storm players bring in Empty the Warrens. Might be worth bringing in the 2nd Toxic Deluge if you think this is the case.

  3. #2223

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Hey there! I really like the diabolic edict md, since it's an additional answer to otherwise almost-unkillable things pre side (merit lage token, nemesis, etc.) but being it the 1x doesn't get me to jump in enthusiasm. I'll try it out though.
    Where did you get to sb sc. ooze in?

    Quote Originally Posted by hovercraft View Post
    I wouldn't side out Sylvan Library in grindy matches like Miracles/Grixis/Czech. That's your only cantrip-like effect. Every turn you have it on the battlefield you are gaining incremental advantage, so the longer the game the more value it brings. I play 1 Sylvan and 1 Mirri's Guile in my list. A card like Oath of Nissa can act as a cantrip if you want more, but it can't grab instants/sorceries/etc. Can help with early land drops though.
    The reason why it's Library being completely anti-sinergic with Chains. Do you think Library has an edge over that?

    Quote Originally Posted by hovercraft View Post
    On Storm:
    Often times in G2/G3 I find storm players bring in Empty the Warrens. Might be worth bringing in the 2nd Toxic Deluge if you think this is the case.
    Completely agreed! Thanks for the advice ;)

  4. #2224

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by Raffaele191 View Post
    Hey there! I really like the diabolic edict md, since it's an additional answer to otherwise almost-unkillable things pre side (merit lage token, nemesis, etc.) but being it the 1x doesn't get me to jump in enthusiasm. I'll try it out though.
    Where did you get to sb sc. ooze in?



    The reason why it's Library being completely anti-sinergic with Chains. Do you think Library has an edge over that?



    Completely agreed! Thanks for the advice ;)
    Right I forgot about Chains. Maybe since you play 2 Chains, consider Mirris Guile over Library? It's not card advantage but it does help you dig deeper. The trigger stacks better with Dark Confidant too since its on upkeep not draw phase.

    How do you like the 1 toxic deluge main deck? I've toyed with that idea as well.

    I just have Scooze as an extra creature in the SB against matches with lots of removal or graveyard decks. My main deck is still a bit different than yours, I run Groves and Punishing fire, and I sold my Goyfs a while back so I run Grim Flayer instead. Sometimes I need extra creatures since I lack big Goyfs.

  5. #2225

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by zebhillard View Post
    Choke is never really a dead card in the SB. If you're having trouble with a large number of Show and Tell, maybe Ashen Riders. You'll never actually cast them, but they're there as a hope and dream.
    If you want an answer to Show & Tell you can actually cast, try Confusion in the Ranks. It also has merits against Land strategies as you'd steal their Marit Lage when it etb's. Not too shabby for 2 terrible matchups imo.

  6. #2226

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Following for a long time, first time posting.
    I tested Grim Flayer for about a year, because i was disappointed of Bob for a long time (I just killed myself way to often). And with Jund it always feels like I am loosing because of the lack of candrips, so I can't find the right answers in time.
    Now I am stuck with a list that tries to be as consistent as possible.

    Main:

    15 Creatures:

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Dark Confidant
    2 Grim Flayer
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Bloodbraid Elf

    23 Spells:

    1 Fatal Push
    1 Mirri's Guile
    4 Tarfire
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Abrupt Decay
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Kolaghan's Command
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope

    22 Lands:

    3 Badlands
    2 Bayou
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Forest
    2 Swamp
    1 Taiga
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Wasteland
    2 Wooded Foothills


    15 Sideboard:

    2 Duress
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles
    2 Diabolic Edict
    2 Golgari Charm
    1 Dismember
    1 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Toxic Deluge

    About my choices:

    Creatures:
    Bob - I got back to Bob, because he is just to good. And with only 2 BBE and the Grim Flayers + Library + Guile I don't get that much damage anymore.
    Grim Flayer - I started with 4 but trimmed them down to 2. With the Tarfires I get to delirium quite fast and consistent. So most of the time he is a 4/4 trample that filters my library while fueling my graveyard. He is good against TNN and I don't mind swing him into a Strix just to clear the board for the goyfs, get in some damage and filter my next draw.
    BBE - Trimmed them to 2, because of Bob and I recognised I board them out really often.

    Spells:
    1 Fatal Push - just the 5th cmc 1 removal against drs or delver
    4 Tarfire - Makes Goyf bigger than Angler and Reality Smasher, gets Delirium activated and kills every creature Lightning Bolt kills except of Leovold
    Guile + Library - My non-blue candrips
    4 TS + 4 Hymn - Combo is our worst enemy and these cards are the only ones getting the job done main

    Lands:
    Got down to 22 because I don't get screwed as often since I don't play Groves anymore + Guile/Library/Flayer


    I am looking forward to your thoughts about my list.
    That's my newest configuration but I couldn't test it really often in the last two months. But I got second at a small tournament with about 24 players (I was really lucky with the almost non-combo-meta).
    Last edited by Greven777; 06-14-2018 at 03:10 PM.

  7. #2227

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Can't bear the silence anymore... is there any way to keep Jund alive post DRS?

    I just can't convince myself, that Scavenging ooze will do the trick, like it did in modern.

    A simple manadork like BoP, also seems kind of misplaced.

    So what are your ideas? What would you do to the deck, to keep it somewhat playable?

  8. #2228

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Played Jund in a local Tourney just before DRS got banned. Classic list of 23 lands with 4DRS/gofy/Bob/BBE/Thoughseize/Hymn and 3Bolt/Decay/Pfire/LOTV and 1 sylvan library.


    2-1 win with wins against Rug Delver, imperial painter and lost narrowly to BR reanimator.

    DRS is really a hard void to fill and i am afraid Ooze might be a necessity mainboard with the resurgence of RUG Delver and reanimator.

    I would probably test with a mixture of 3 arbor elves and 2 bromat Courer for a start with at 2 surgical extraction 1 ooze mainboard, cut 1 land, 1 BBE,1 Bolt, 1 thoughtseize 4 DRS then test with 4 Chrome Mox and mainboard Chains of Mephistopheles.
    Last edited by Tee; 07-09-2018 at 07:15 AM.

  9. #2229

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    @Tee i really like the idea of the Bomat Courier, i dont own any but i will try to get some and test this out.

    My alternative currently is:

    4 DR's out.
    2 Grim Lavamancer (Could be Bomat Curier)
    2 Scaviging Ooze

    I have been at my local LGS for a while so i dont know how it will pan out. But im still deadset on running my 4 (maybe cut to 3) Bloodbraid elf's they have saved me to many times not to. I am also running the Punishing Fire combo aswell especially if RUG Delver comes back. Also the main Chains of Mephistopheles i like aswell.

    I will come back when i've run some tests, but vacation time is comming up so in a few weeks.

  10. #2230
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Just a few random thoughts. From the B&R announcements I was thinking a lot in the future of the meta. Deathrite was released in october 2012, Knight of the reliquary, on the other hand was released in 2009.

    I mention Knight because I start checking the meta previous Deathrite release and you can check that the decks at these time were: Threshold, deathblades, Team america, Reanimator, etc... and the more close to Jund was Jund Loam.
    Is not a big surprise that the top 4 previous october 2012 matches a lot with the more active threads in The Source forums.

    As the 4c (or more) decks will be punished, there will be less graveyard hate maindeck and the mana denial seems one of the ways to go, maybe focusing the actual Jund to a more "loamish" version could be one option.

    Jund version has a more stable manabase than the 4c loam, and has very good pairings vs. counter decks, and last, most of the Jund decks already use LftL in sideboards and we can use most of the cards.

  11. #2231
    The Fire of Justice Burns Like Nothing Else
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by Nopziiemoo View Post
    @Tee i really like the idea of the Bomat Courier, i dont own any but i will try to get some and test this out.

    My alternative currently is:

    4 DR's out.
    2 Grim Lavamancer (Could be Bomat Curier)
    2 Scaviging Ooze

    I have been at my local LGS for a while so i dont know how it will pan out. But im still deadset on running my 4 (maybe cut to 3) Bloodbraid elf's they have saved me to many times not to. I am also running the Punishing Fire combo aswell especially if RUG Delver comes back. Also the main Chains of Mephistopheles i like aswell.

    I will come back when i've run some tests, but vacation time is comming up so in a few weeks.
    Punishing Fire likely has to go from this deck. It puts a lot of strain on the manabase which is further exacerbated by the loss of DRS.
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderPreaux View Post
    Gronder sounds like a dating app for people who play Knight of the Reliquary.

  12. #2232
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphix View Post
    Punishing Fire likely has to go from this deck. It puts a lot of strain on the manabase which is further exacerbated by the loss of DRS.
    Unless they trim down on Groves, include Crop Rotation, and synergize with Tireless Tracker for additional land drops/clues. Seems doable; difficult, but doable. Tracker is rising in the ranks of powerful creatures to build around in legacy. I know I'd be pretty happy getting a BBE > Tracker.
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  13. #2233

    Re: [Deck] Jund


  14. #2234

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by Wakkz View Post
    Personally, I don't like Mirri's Guile, though I understand why it's in the deck. I'm going to try this list but swap the Libraries in for draw power and swap a Grove for a Taiga. Overall I like the list and what it's trying to do.

    GB

  15. #2235

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by Wakkz View Post
    “Thank you God for japanese people.”

  16. #2236

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    First post ban FnM tourney.
    Played with 22 lands, played 4 surgical extraction 3 ooze and 3 grim flayer. Took out BBE and DRS and a library.

    2 win 1 draw against RUG delver, grixis control and DnT. Came back and outgrind a thalia equipped with a battleskull on 48 life! I played extraction cos anticipating the come back of reanimator.

    Finally done up a list i am more satisifed with. Surgical + Ooze synergise with heavy discard plan and good against graveyard and RUG Delver. Grim flayer sygnergise with bob and gofy and is a pseudo library. Took out BBE and reduce land count to 22.

    Going forward, will test some BBE with grim flayer and add 1 or 2 more lands. Not sure Mirri's guile is good enough.

  17. #2237

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Played the tweaked japanese guy's decklist yesterday at my local fnm (28 players, quite a number). I expected metagame to be favorable, (turned out 5 death and taxes were in the tournament) so jumped in and that's the run.
    Match 1 vs UW Dreadnought. W 2-1 (a cool list with Torpor Orbs with legs and Phyrexian Dreadnought).
    Match 2 vs Burning Show. W 2-0 (lots of discard).
    Match 3 vs Burning Show. L 0-2
    Match 4 vs Aggro Loam. W 2-0 (Surgical Extraction everything)
    Match 5 vs Lands ID
    Top 8 vs Aggro Loam. W 2-1 (Surgical Extraction everything)
    Top 4 vs Goblins. W 2-0 (I had nuts hand in game1 and nuts draws in game 2 while he mana screwed)

    Pretty happy with the deck for how it played out, didn't think it could be even close to playable after drs got banned. But I managed to win even unfavourable matchups so, I'll keep giving it shots once in awhile!

  18. #2238

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Played this list over the week in 2 events
    3 Dark Confidant
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    2 Grim Flayer
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Bloodbraid Elf

    1 Fatal Push
    2 Mirri's Guile
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Punishing Fire
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Kolaghan's Command
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    2 Badlands
    2 Bayou
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Forest
    2 Swamp
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland
    2 Wooded Foothills
    4 Groove of the burnwillows

    2 Duress
    2 Pyroblast
    4 Surgical Extraction
    2 Carpet of Flowers
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 lilana the last hope
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Backlash
    1 Ancient Grudge

    2-1 Jeskai Delver
    Won by a hymning both daze out of opponents hand and burn a stoneforge. Gofy and Ooze did the job thereafter. Lose next game due to landflood despite landing a Mirri's Guile. Game 3 turn 2 Carpet of flowers and turn 3 Bloodbraid into liliana won the game.

    2-1 Miracles
    Classic thoughtseize into Hymn into Liliana was too much for miracles to bear. Game 2 was outgrinded despite me having a Mirri's guile and a Carpet of flowers. Ooze and Gofy was plowed and game was over when opponent landed a Teferi hero of domanira. Game 3 i opened with a thoughtseize and surgical extraced a brainstorm and proceeded next with hymn and surgical away a Swords to Plowshares. Opponent never recovered from there.

    2-1 Death and Taxes
    Bolted a turn 1 Mother of Runes and hymn away 2 of his creatures left him with no much plays in first 3 turns. Grim flayer and Gofy took away from there. Kept a dodgy hand with Ooze, gofy, K.command and a BBE with no removals and was beat down by thaila, wingmare and Blighting and my lands ported and wastelanded. Game 3 i managed to K.command a ather vial at 3 and toxic deulge opponents 4 creatures with lilana the last hope for the win.

    2-0 Death and taxes
    Both games i won simply as i kept a removal heavy hand. Ancient grudge came out in game 2.

    0-2 Mana Dredge.
    Overrunned by zombies despite surgical extracting a ichorid. This is the matchup where i need a tormord's Crypt.

    2-1 Blue Stompy
    Thoughtseize and hymn controlled his hand and Liliana killed hid serendit effret. Opponent chalice at one was limited as most of my hand was 2 cmc. Game 2 was met with a back to basics and a TNN carrying a sword of fire and ice. Game 3 I had answers for all his threats and managed to grind him down with Bob, Gofy, Ooze and Flayer. Pyroblast for his FoW, goglari charm for his Tnn, abrupt decay and ancient grudge for his equipments, wastelands for hid ancient tomb.

    Overall, think Jund is still pretty much playable post ban but think Jund is becoming more of a customised and metadeck with mainboard gradually becoming more flexible. I feel Jund need a minimim of 10-12 1 drop as there are too many 2 drops in Jund. Possible builds are heavy discard and 4 lilana of the veil with 22 lands or a Bloodbraid elves list with 23-24 lands. I was very reluctant to drop Dark confidant with the Japanese list as he is the deck's main draw source and can still synergise with Mirri's guile. Grim Flayer was suprising efficient and i might play a single tarfire. As for sideboard choices, i am still delibrating between choke or Carpet of flowers or 1 each as each have their own virtue.

    Keep Jund'em out!

  19. #2239

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Grim Lavamancer could be worth a slot or 2 as another 1 drop and extra clock.
    Loam/Ice Station Zebra/Depths/Jund/GB Pox

  20. #2240
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Lord Windgrace is BUSTED. I think he's the savior the deck needed. I'm torn between a durdely version with loam/GSZ/pfire or a more traditional list. Honestly I don't think Liliana of the Veil adds anything anymore, the format is past her.
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