I need more time to test as I have some exams this week. Feel free to test as well and see what you think.
The LD package does pick up more points against Eldrazi, for sure.
I love Jund but hate Punishing Fire and I hate, hate, hate Blood Braid elf. I hate him when he does very little and I hate him the next turn no matter what he did the first turn. I just took 11th out of 51 at a local 1K with this list and I'll be playing it in the SCG Classic this Sunday, 6-25-2016 at the Dallas SCG. I'll give the list and a little report from the 1K.
Lands-23-
Wasteland X4
Bloodstained Mire X4
Verdant Catacombs X4
Badlands X3
Bayou X3
Taiga X1
Raging Ravine X1
Swamp X2
Forest X1
Red-4-
Lightning Bolt X4
Green-7-
Tarmogoyf X4
Garruk Relentless X2
Sylvan Library X1
Black-16-
Thoughtseize X4
Dark Confidant X4
Hymn to Tourach X4
Liliana of the Veil X3
Chains of Mephistopheles X1
Gold-10-
Deathrite Shaman X4
Abrupt Decay X4
Arlinn Kord X2
Sideboard-15-
Graffdiger's Cage X4
Engineered Plague X2
Red Elemental Blast X2
Blood Moon X2
Null Rod X1
Pithing Needle X1
Maelstrom Pulse X1
Krosan Grip X1
Chains of Mephistopheles X1
The mana base is rock solid, the man land is a nice nod to increase the threat density in the face that you no longer have to run the Punishing Fires combination. The Planeswalkers are solid in a miracles driven metagame. Arlinn Kord is better then you may think. Four 4 drops in a Bob deck sucks, Painful Truths may be better here, I just like the board presence and the ability of turning Bob sideways, but that may not be the best thing. I'm open to testing Truths in that slot, in fact I may test that this Saturday as a tune up to the SCG event. I've messed this deck up so much, why not a bit more?
Results from the 1K: Common Ground Games Dallas TX
Round 1: Food Chain
Win Game 1 and my opponent conceded game 2 after realizing he boarded incorrectly. I got most of these games on the back of Hymns and Abrupt Decays.
Round 2: Doomsday
Game 1: Get destroyed
Game 2: DRS and some timely discard got me to it.
Game 3: I get super lucky, the turn before I get killed I top deck a Chains which locks the game up long enough for me to get there.
Round 3: Reanimator:
Game 1: My opponent gets a game loss due to misregistered list.
Game 2: Blows me out with a turn one Sire of Insanity
Game 2: I start with land DRS, and he gets the turn one Sire, but I am able to get to a Goyf, trade and then take the game over
Round 4: Lands
Game 1: Lose to Marit Lage
Game 2: Get there through early DRS, wasteland and a goyf
Game 3: Sphere of Resistance 1 and 2 get ahead of me, board is jammed up and he gets to Marit Lage and kills me
Round 5: Merfolk
Game 1: Goys and Arlinn
Game 2: Goyfs and Arlinn
Round 6: Shardless BUG
Game 1: Lose to flooding out while he gets me with a Tar Pit, stabilize and die to Jace ultimate
Game 2: Win with active Lilli
Game 3: Lose after we both waste each other out, I flood and he needles Lilli and gets to a goyf and gets me.
I was 7th and he was 8th in Round six. it sucks to go x-1 and not be able to draw in, but that's life. Losing the win and in, my opponent opens the top 8 at number 1 and I get 11th out of 51 or so.
Great event and well run, hats off to Common Ground.
The deck performed pretty well in general. Very frustrating to lose a win and in against a favored match up, but stealing on Doomsday was pretty sick. The deck does well in the mid range, and miracles, delver decks. It gets hosed by lands and fast combo, especially anything resilient to hand disruption. I just love Jund and hate Miracles, so I'll keep grinding on this and see where it takes me. Painful Truths over Bob is next up, and I'll get some kind of report out for the SCG unless I rage quit:)
cheers
defector
You know you have to explain things slowly... VEEERY slowly... to me :POriginally Posted by sdematt
I never considered (for some reason) Painful Truths. Gotta think on this one.
And yay, 100 pages. Exciting :)
Haha :P
Dark Confidant is a great card, but he's fragile as all hell. My theory was - why not try Truths to draw those cards immediately and pull ahead, especially against Miracles? You ideally either push some hand disruption through and then play Truths, or get your hand disruption countered, then refill with Truths and keep going. The problem I found with Bob was that he was dying. I also have wondered for a long, long time if BBE is the best we can do. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it's a necessary cut with Truths.
A more solid midrange backbone of creatures to support Goyf is ideal in this midrange hell. Why? Scooze does overtime against other Goyf decks, and fights Snapcasters, and Tombstalker is so over the top. BBE is fine, and gets you a card, but I'm trying it out. The rest of the core is similar, but again, I don't think playing a control game is bad. Basically being red Shardless isn't bad. Fires is very good at beating Walkers and smaller decks, and you have enough sweepers to handle DnT and such. LD fights Eldrazi, and hopefully Fires and enough card draw backed with walkers might be enough to actually beat Miracles consistently enough.
-Matt
I like this list as well. I find myself boarding in Garruk Relentless in every non-combo matchup. Assembling a board of (two or more of) Sylvan Library, Liliana, and Garruk is nearly impossible for any fair deck to beat.
You mentioned Arlinn Kord as being pretty good; how often was she better than a Huntmaster?
Did you ever activate the Raging Ravine? I've been watching Modern Jund videos to familiarize myself with the Modern version of the deck, and it seems to do a lot of work in that format. On the other hand, without Wasteland and Daze in the format, it seems like Modern games end up with twice as many lands in play as Legacy games.
I don't know about the proper mixture of Sylvan Library, Dark Confidant, and Painful Truths. I know I'd always want at least two Libraries in the maindeck. Obviously Bob and Library have a lot of synergy and Bob and Truths are anti-synergystic. Libraries and Bobs or Libraries and Painful Truths?
InfoNinjas
The Arlin vs Huntmaster question is pretty good. I always found Huntmaster underwhelming, but maybe I'm wrong about him. Arlinn is better than you'd think, now maybe 2 Huntmaster, 1 Arlinn, 1 Garruk isn't bad either, I feel like I want the right mix of four costs. Maybe Eldritch Moon will give us an amazing 3 or 4 CMC win con in Jund colors. I don't use Painful Truths currently because I have Chains main and Chains in the side, but the whole Bob dying too much is a serious problem. I have top locked Miracles players with Chains and made their Terminus useless as I smack them with Raging Ravine. If Raging was a 3 CMC activate I would snap include it in non Grove lists, as it is, its marginally fringe, but not terrible. It's way better in Modern, if it was a 3 cmc activation in modern it would probably be banned. I completely agree with the analogy about Red Shardless, we are going after a lot of the same space. I've been looking hard at Modern versions and Shardless decks to try and get a good sense of a Non BBE Jund list. I want us to be able to support Blood Moon for lands and then accept that fast GY gets us. Yay for page 100:) Lets keep our fingers crossed for Eldritch Moon and keep grinding:)
You could try Tireless Tracker in place of Bob. Lands uses it to good effect, if you wait till turn 4 you can drop the Tracker and get 1 to 2 clues from the Landfall ability. It plays okay with Chains because you can pop clues on their turn.
Correct me if I am wrong, but based on Chains' oracle text, the clues just say "2: Discard a card, draw a card" no matter when you sacrifice them.
InfoNinjas
No, I think you're right. Not sure what I was thinking of then...must have forgotten the "except the first draw in your draw step" part of the card.
A planeswalker heavy Jund list with 2 Arlinn Kord and 2 Garruk Relentless got 12th out of 200+ at SCG Dallas today.
No BBE's, 2 maindeck chains and another in the sideboard, seems pretty awesome in this meta.
This configuration seems to sure up the shardless and miracles match ups, is this perhaps just a blue heavy meta call?
That list looks awesome. I wish Chains weren't $300+ each.
Here's an open-ended question relevant to both the Punishing and Un-Punishing builds: What is the ideal split between Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, and Inquisition of Kozilek? Most Jund lists (Punishing and un-Punishing) have curves something with like 12 1-cc, 18 2-cc, 5 3-cc, and 2 4-cc spells.
The one drop slot is a little bit thin, the two drop slot is crowded, and most lists run only about five three drops. Deathrite and Thoughseize are fantastic turn one plays, but Lightning Bolt is only a necessary turn-one play in a small number of matchups. Hymn is a more powerful card than Inquisition, but IoK is not far below Hymn in power level. Lowering the mana curve is non-trivial for Dark Confidant and the color requirements are slightly simplified with Inquisition as well. I could easily envision playing 4/1/3 TS, IoK, and Hymn, and from there it's a slippery slope to 4/2/2 or 4/3.
I think that this is especially relevant to lists with multiple Sylvan Libraries main, as resolving a Library or Bob on turn two is extremely strong.
InfoNinjas
Hello Guys,
Here is the report for my top 16 at the starcity event, we had just over 200 players (202-205) for a solid 8 rounds of Legacy. I went in with the 3Chain$ SuperJund planning to feast on Blue decks and dodge GY combo, and I got the second half of that right and the first half of that wrong.
Top 16:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...=TX&country=US
The Deck:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=104494
I have the list at the end as well if that link fails.
Round 1: Shardless BUG
Lose in 3. He had turn one a visions in both games he beat me in, and I got a chains on line exactly one turn after the first a visions popped. I kept a jace under wraps with a chains though i eventually died to Jace ultimate. Creeping Tar Pits got me for a lot and I couldn't keep a Bob alive to save my life.
Pretty frustrating way to start the day.
Round 2: Death and Taxes
I win in 3, all very close. I pick up my first GRV for casting an AD into a Pegasus, Thalia board with only 2 lands and DRS. Liliana does a lot of good work in this match up and getting out plague on Humans was strong.
Round 3: Infect
Game 1 he plays an Inkmoth and shows me three Invorates turn 2, pretty nice. Games 2 and 3 I get plague in Blinkmoth, Lilli, and trade away everything I can for blocks. I have enough removal to get there for games two and three, and barely survive an aggressive start in game 3. Infect is OK for us, but sometimes they just got it.
Round 4: Mono White Soldier Stompy
I win in 2. Pretty cool deck, kind of a DnT idea but leaning more heavily on Soldier archetypes in Mono White. Its also a Chalice on 1 deck which doesn't really bother us. He chalice one'd me twice and I was able to play through and around it.Liliana is amazing there and then getting to either Arlinn or Garruk can seal it up.
Round 5: Tezzeret
I win in 3, and finally found a mu that my chains are good in, most of the rest of the deck is good here too though, Jund is far enough ahead that it doesn't really need a bomb like chains to get there. He gets me in game 2 with chalices on one and two and I can't find an AD for my life. Game three is all about heart wrenching high value Hymns followed by Liliana of the Veil.
Round 6: Burn
I win in 3. This is by far the luckiest I have ever been with Jund. My opponent kept a one lander that was pretty loaded, but didn't see a second land until way too late, I have DRS online and have gained back enough life to stabilize, and then I get some Goyfs out and win. Game 2 my opponent opens with t1 swiftspear, then 2 turn 2 swiftspears and some boltage, that was quick. Game 3 my opponent may have over side boarded or just drew poorly, he gets a lot of sb cards and has en e-bridge in play and kind of runs out of gas, I gain some life with DRS that gets killed then get Arlinn in play, I make a wolf and my opponent has two cards in hand for 3 turns while i swing with the wolf, plus Arlinn after, then get a goyf out. I ultimate Arlin, my opponent asks to read it, and then asks, how big is that goyf? Funny you should ask. I'm able to close it out in two turns from there. had my opponent been more comfortable with Arlinn I think she's just a 4-5 point life game spell there, but who knows, either way I get very lucky in a very bad mu. i'd like to call it some karmic consolation for losing to Shardless.
Round 7: Eldrazi DnT
Lose in 2. This is my win and maybe draw in dreams are crushed. I can't get ahead of my opponent at all and the Eldrazi blinker blinks away my Goyfs and he kills my walkers and then me. All the sads are mine and he goes on to top 8 the event.
Round 8: DnT
Win in 3. Game one he wrecks me, game two I return the favor and then we grind in game 3. I get some hymns off and a Plague on humans, he swords most of what I play and gets me with a RIP. Then we each pick up our second GRV on the day, I had a Bob in play and we both forgot plague gets my creatures too, he got me three cards. It happened after one Lilli ult, so I don't think it was relevant, but its still annoying and sloppy play is no fun. That's the last round of an 8 rounder with a grindy deck, the fatigue is real.
Hats off to my opponents, played a very nice set of guys, all competitors, but good decent folk:) Well run event again by SCG, you guys are always welcome in Dallas and by Dallas, I mean Fort Worth. My playtets partner was on Miracles two slots ahead of me, great day for him and one of my other playtest partners took Lands to 8th, well done team Savage Beating.
The deck and the future:
The chains are overkill, Legacy is too wide for that much concentrated hate especially when you are generally favored vs most brainstorm decks anyway. 3Chain$ is baller, you can't deny it, but a more reasonable expectation would be a singleton in the sideboard. i still love my mana base and don't want to be the third best Punishing Fire deck in the format(looking at you Lands and 4cLoam) but if people want to run it, sure. Love my Hymns, all I want to do is Hymn people all day long.
BBE vs the Super Friends: BBE is probably better, but more flippy and I'm still to mad to make up, my darlin Arlinn is underpowered for legacy, but not by much, she still won me two games and I just really, really like the card, so fuck it, i'm playing her. My jund is discard deck that wants to get ahead through discard and removal and close out with walkers. Its not as bad as you'd think and the decks that other people defend aren't as good as they imply. Its a solid tier two strategy, play around with it:) If I can get an amazing three drop out of Eldrith Moon in our colors everything changes, also B&R may change things too (here's lookin at you Top), but either way, teh core strategy of Bolts, Bobs, Hymns and Goyfs aint bad. Anyway, take away what you can and happy hunting:)
cheers,
defector
Lands-23-
Wasteland X4
Bloodstained Mire X4
Verdant Catacombs X4
Badlands X3
Bayou X3
Taiga X1
Raging Ravine X1
Swamp X2
Forest X1
Red-4-
Lightning Bolt X4
Green-7-
Tarmogoyf X4
Garruk Relentless X2
Black-16-
Thoughtseize X4
Dark Confidant X4
Hymn to Tourach X4
Liliana of the Veil X3
Chains of Mephistopheles X2
Gold-10-
Deathrite Shaman X4
Abrupt Decay X4
Arlinn Kord X2
Sideboard-15-
Graffdiger's Cage X4
Engineered Plague X3
Blood Moon X2
Null Rod X1
Pithing Needle X2
Maelstrom Pulse X2
Chains of Mephistopheles X1
Congratulations on your result, I must say this is a spicey list.
Have you tried with multiples in the sideboard, for particularly blue heavy metas? I have been particularly impressed with two. (I am willing to admit that the baller factor certainly adds to my bias)
I also agree that whilst Arlinn is not particularly 'powerful' per se, she still packs a wallop and is criminally underestimated.
Thank you:) It is a hell of a lot of fun to play. I haven't tried two Chains in the board, I did run 1/1 split with one main and one side, and that was fine. I don't see anything wrong with 2 in the 75 or even one maindeck, it sucks with Sylvan though, so bad. Right now I have 1 sylvan main and 1 pulse main and 0 chains and 1 in the board, we'll see how I like that for a bit. Arlinn is so fun, god she's a cool card. I'm also vey interested in Bloodhall Priest. I may try a 4 Bloodhall Priest, 4 Lilli and abandon the super Friends idea for a minute, Bloodhall looks like it could break up DnT boards very well and fight vs Jace pretty well too. I really want a 3 drop in the KoTR caliber for Jund to become complete, but there just isn't anything out there that good, so I always end up hodge podging the top of the curve. Anyway, at least we have some cards to work with to try and keep this deck interesting:)
cheers
defector
Hello,
Can you guys tell me what kind of meta rhis dexk eants to be in? To give you an example of that im playing against here is my 9 man tourny that went off today.
3 infect (could easily be 4 but my friend was a no show)
1 d&t
1 junk deathblade
1 brew (like red blue flyers...looked like jank)
1 burn
1 manaless dredge
Shardless(me)
I also play against r/u delver.....woukd this deck be good in the meta?
Jund is a fine choice in a fair deck meta, but struggles vs combo. It wants to see miracles and DNT all day,
Hows infect?
It seems like my meta blew up with it. Other than that my meta consists of the occasional storm and high tode decks. But ita rare
Infect should usually be fine, but it is pretty pilot dependent.
Your removal lines up quite well against them, but there will be times where they'll just have it and there'll be nothing you can do.
Another thing to be aware of is that it's one of the few decks in the format that have ways of dealing with abrupt decay (vines, sometimes apostles blessing).
But as stated, if you're expecting combo outside of infect, you're going to have a bad time.
I play Loams sometimes.
Na not much combo in my local meta that consistantly plays, mostly value creatures (stone forge, moms,etc). At larger events where i expect storm i can always switch to shardless or delver.....i would imagine chains helps with high tide
For storm do you just play pithing needle +discard
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