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Thread: [Deck] Jund

  1. #1341

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    4 Thoughtseize and 4 Hymns main. 2 Kitchen Finks and 2 Obstinate Baloth in the side, 4 Dark Confidant out. That gives you a fighting chance against burn alongside the DRS. Don't board out your Thoughtseizes in the matchup. They're worth the 2 life loss to get things like Eidolon, PoP and Fireblast out of their hands early.

  2. #1342

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    @ afedelejr
    against URx you should be playing the control role. You almost never can race them, so take your time and play around daze. Go land-go a few times, get basics to avoid wastelands and use decay for the delver that flips and beats you. that works for me.

    @ iamajellydonut
    I disagree on the miracle side out (if i understood you correctly). I am testing day-in and day-out with my roomie and his miracles and I would not be taking out Pun.Fire. Ever. It laughs at jace and if forcing it is just more win for you. The only thing they can do to it is RIP (which can be avoided by decay) and holding a 2 on top with counterbalance (which can be avoided by decay).
    I do side out 2 goyfs because of RIP, which might be too much I recon. I generally remove 2 waste, 2 bolts (since I have p.fire), 1 golgari charm/decay (they typically board out balance) and normally take in pyroblasts, a k-grip, 1 slaugther games (awesooome!), 1 null rod + 1 needle. Null rod is really sweet if they tend to board in Eng.Explosives.

  3. #1343
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by Neffy View Post
    @ iamajellydonut
    I would not be taking out Pun.Fire. Ever ... The only thing they can do to it is RIP (which can be avoided by decay)
    I do side out 2 goyfs because of RIP
    This doesn't really make sense.

    Anyway, I disagree with you disagreeing with me on sideboarding. Taking out creatures is basically doing their job for them. 100% of the plan against Miracles is to make them go one-for-one with your creatures till you inevitably win. Their 6-8 removal spells vs your 11-12 creatures. By taking out Goyfs, you're literally killing yourself. And for what reason? Rest in Peace? True, Rest in Peace sucks dick when it lands, but it's not guaranteed to land and you can easily remove it for a net result of "no harm done". Just to make sure I was thinking straight, I did take a peek at the recent placing SCG decks. Four decks. Two Rest in Peace. Granted, going back a little bit further you see some decks playing 2xRest in Peace, but it still goes to show that Rest in Peace is not significant enough to kill yourself over.

    Also, don't take out Abrupt Decays. It hits Sensei's Divining Top (which is the focal point of any game and the reason you're bringing in that Null Rod). It hits Rest in Peace. It hits Pithing Needle. It hits whatever creatures. Plus, while it's common for Miracles to board out Counterbalance, it's not guaranteed.


    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    4 Thoughtseize and 4 Hymns main. 2 Kitchen Finks and 2 Obstinate Baloth in the side, 4 Dark Confidant out. That gives you a fighting chance against burn alongside the DRS. Don't board out your Thoughtseizes in the matchup. They're worth the 2 life loss to get things like Eidolon, PoP and Fireblast out of their hands early.
    While Finks and Baloth are guaranteed to crush their puny skulls, Burn is literally the only deck you would board them in against. That's way too narrow to justify unless you're going to an eight-man and see seven Burn and yourself.

    Also, on a general note (and this is for Took not Nuke as I saw you mentioned Bob being in play post-board), don't automatically board out Dark Confidant. It's a body. It lets you block. It lets you clock. It gets you cards. "Oh, but it costs life" isn't particularly relevant when the average life lost is 1.25-ish and can be offset with Sylvan Library. I typically take out 1-2 depending on how much and what I have to board in, but it always stays in to some degree.


    p.s. Speaking of these two decks, I'm actually looking for a sideboard card that's effective against both Miracles and Burn. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.

  4. #1344
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    p.s. Speaking of these two decks, I'm actually looking for a sideboard card that's effective against both Miracles and Burn. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.
    I recently tried playing Thragtusk in my board. Against miracles he leaves a 3/3 body when they remove him, and against burn you get 5 life and a helluva clock.

    I have also tried batterskull, which can give miracles fits unless they draw d sphere or will of the council. The only thing is batterskull might be too slow against burn since you have to wait til combat.

    Sword of war and peace would be good too because it protects from StP and angels and gains life against burn.

    These choices might be too far fetched though.

  5. #1345

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    I like the idea of SoWP. It might be worth a shot. I've always been wary of 5 drops so I don't have much experience with then. I do think we need to be more prepared for burn though. I'm attending SCG this Sunday I think.

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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by ironclad8690 View Post
    I recently tried playing Thragtusk in my board. Against miracles he leaves a 3/3 body when they remove him, and against burn you get 5 life and a helluva clock.
    :O

    Fuck this is silly! I'm wary of moving into Price of Progress range though. I can usually just keep it down to a single fetchland ready to search up a Badlands in terms of PoP's effectiveness. Thragtusk would force me to give them two meaty non-basics.

  7. #1347
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by afedelejr View Post
    I like the idea of SoWP. It might be worth a shot. I've always been wary of 5 drops so I don't have much experience with then. I do think we need to be more prepared for burn though. I'm attending SCG this Sunday I think.
    Nice, you should write a tourny report if you do.

    @jellydonut

    Yeah, that is the crappy thing about tusk. At least he is "cancelling out" the price if you only need to have 2 non basics. I will say burn felt much easier when I played the non-punishing version, but death and taxes elves and merfolk got way harder.

  8. #1348

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Any thoughts on Bow of Nylea? It can come down on turn 2 and just negates so much of burns deck.

  9. #1349
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by ironclad8690 View Post
    Yeah, that is the crappy thing about tusk. At least he is "cancelling out" the price if you only need to have 2 non basics. I will say burn felt much easier when I played the non-punishing version, but death and taxes elves and merfolk got way harder.
    I wouldn't say those match-ups got "way" harder. Punishing Fire definitely helps loads, but Merfolk isn't played, and other cards are still far more key with regards to Death and Taxes.

    Anyway, I think I might try the Tusk tonight over Bitterblossom if I can dig up a copy. For the record, here's the current board for my non-Punishing Fire list. I like it a lot, but I do still feel vulnerable to Burn. I'm loath to add more Duress as I don't even like the copy I have now but use it begrudgingly. I've been considering Umezawa's Jitte a lot recently, but I don't feel it does enough to warrant a slot. Bitterblossom is mainly the card I'm looking to trade out. House as it is against Miracles, it doesn't do much against anything else and it's a poor excuse for a "body" against anything you just need to hurl dudes at. Chains of Mephistopheles will likely gain Duress's slot after Khans's release.

    1*Mindbreak Trap
    1*Bitterblossom
    1*Actual Super Secret Tech
    1*Duress
    1*Massacre
    2*Surgical Extraction
    1*Ancient Grudge
    1*Pyroblast
    1*Red Elemental Blast
    1*Pernicious Deed
    1*Grafdigger's Cage
    1*Null Rod
    1*Pithing Needle
    1*Relic of Progenitus

  10. #1350

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Your sideboard is interesting as recently I've been going back and forth between mostly one - ofs or have a lot of 2 and 3 ofs. Have the same type of game plan against a lot of the same decks in regards to sideboarding. I'm not sure which one is better.

    On a side note, does anyone have a lot of legacy staples on MTGO and would like to Jam games against each other? I have a large collection and can put together most decks I think.

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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by afedelejr View Post
    Any thoughts on Bow of Nylea? It can come down on turn 2 and just negates so much of burns deck.
    It doesn't necessarily come down on turn 2 as Deathrite Shaman is already Public Enemy No. 1 and is more often than not as burnt as a toaster strudel, but I actually like this suggestion a lot. It would also be exceptionally effective against UR Delver, though I'm not sure how much I would like it against BUG/WUR or anything else.

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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by afedelejr View Post
    Your sideboard is interesting as recently I've been going back and forth between mostly one - ofs or have a lot of 2 and 3 ofs. Have the same type of game plan against a lot of the same decks in regards to sideboarding. I'm not sure which one is better.
    I don't really see a problem with one-ofs. It's not like you want eight REBs or a slew of Null Rods. I feel like it's a position we're pushed into, but one that we're pretty comfortable with. If we were looking at decks A-Z and only bringing one card each silver-bullet-style I might see a problem, but I'm bringing in nine cards against Miracles with only two of them having the same "name" (REB). The only uncomfortable aspects are ones that are independent of any one-of discussion such as "Mindbreak Trap is kind of useless but every time I take it out I play Belcher".

    Also, I keep going back and forth with regards to MODO. It basically always comes down to "Goyf is still $90 even online".

  13. #1353

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    This doesn't really make sense.

    Anyway, I disagree with you disagreeing with me on sideboarding. Taking out creatures is basically doing their job for them. 100% of the plan against Miracles is to make them go one-for-one with your creatures till you inevitably win. Their 6-8 removal spells vs your 11-12 creatures. By taking out Goyfs, you're literally killing yourself. And for what reason? Rest in Peace? True, Rest in Peace sucks dick when it lands, but it's not guaranteed to land and you can easily remove it for a net result of "no harm done". Just to make sure I was thinking straight, I did take a peek at the recent placing SCG decks. Four decks. Two Rest in Peace. Granted, going back a little bit further you see some decks playing 2xRest in Peace, but it still goes to show that Rest in Peace is not significant enough to kill yourself over.

    Also, don't take out Abrupt Decays. It hits Sensei's Divining Top (which is the focal point of any game and the reason you're bringing in that Null Rod). It hits Rest in Peace. It hits Pithing Needle. It hits whatever creatures. Plus, while it's common for Miracles to board out Counterbalance, it's not guaranteed.
    I get your point on the creatures, thanks for commenting. Want to share want you do board out then? THanks

  14. #1354

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Has anyone seen anything interesting for us in the new set? I didn't see too much for jund.

  15. #1355
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by afedelejr View Post
    Has anyone seen anything interesting for us in the new set? I didn't see too much for jund.
    The delve removal spell could be interesting because it does deal with certain creatures (Griselbrand, Tombstalker), but they're very minor. You might want to play it as a 1-of like we did Pulse/Diabolic Edict in the past.

    -Matt

  16. #1356

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    So here's the list I think I am going to try this Sunday at SCG Edison.

    Lands (24)
    1 Swamp
    3 Wasteland
    1 Wooded Foothills
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    3 Badlands
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Bayou
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Forest

    Creatures
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Dark Confidant
    3 Bloodbraid Elf

    Instants / Sorceries
    3 Punishing Fire
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Lightning Bolt
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Golgari Charm

    Enchantments
    2 Sylvan Library

    Planeswalkers
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    Sideboard
    1 Pyroblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Duress
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Bow of Nylea
    2 Hymn to Tourach

    I've excluded a couple discard in the mainboard and opted for a lightning bolt and a maelstrom pulse.

    I'm also running 24 lands. How many fetchlands do we need? I would like to cut the 9th for a second Urborg.

    I've tested Huntmaster for a week or so. At least 30 matches and I am not impressed. I don't think it's better than Bloodbraid Elf. It doesn't impact the board quick enough and it can get countered whereas BBE usually gets me at least one permanent.

    Bow of Nylea has been off and on. If you can get it in the early game, it's really good. It practically wins you the game. The late game makes it a little too slow if it's against Burn or a Delver matchup.

    Sideboard cards I am still thinking about are: Krosan grip (Taking out Ancient Grudge), Null Rod, Slaughter Games (Although I feel like we have a decent enough of a game against Miracles that it may be a win-more card), Pernicious Deed, and possibly a 5 drop like Thragtusk or Battleskull (Although I am hesitant to play a 5 drop in this deck.)

    I'm also curious about Garruk Wildspeak or Flip Garruk. Has anyone tested any of these in Jund? If so, what matchups are they for? Also, what about Koth?

    Thanks

  17. #1357

    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    While Finks and Baloth are guaranteed to crush their puny skulls, Burn is literally the only deck you would board them in against. That's way too narrow to justify unless you're going to an eight-man and see seven Burn and yourself.

    Also, on a general note (and this is for Took not Nuke as I saw you mentioned Bob being in play post-board), don't automatically board out Dark Confidant. It's a body. It lets you block. It lets you clock. It gets you cards. "Oh, but it costs life" isn't particularly relevant when the average life lost is 1.25-ish and can be offset with Sylvan Library. I typically take out 1-2 depending on how much and what I have to board in, but it always stays in to some degree.


    p.s. Speaking of these two decks, I'm actually looking for a sideboard card that's effective against both Miracles and Burn. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.
    If I have Baloth in the sideboard, which I will only really do in a meta where I know Burn is an issue, I also wind up siding it in all the time against Liliana of the Veil and occasionally against Jace (not in Miracles though.) Baloth is a nasty beating against Liliana and if an opponent is using Jace in a situation where life totals actually matter for me Baloth is a beating against them also. 4 life per play and they have to keep putting it back into my hand until they find removal or a counter or Jace gets down to 1 and they brainstorm off of him in desperation.

    In BUG 2 Obstinate Baloth and 2 Vendilion Clique makes Jace cry sometimes.

  18. #1358
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by afedelejr View Post
    So here's the list I think I am going to try this Sunday at SCG Edison.

    Lands (24)
    1 Swamp
    3 Wasteland
    1 Wooded Foothills
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    3 Badlands
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Bayou
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Forest

    Creatures
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Dark Confidant
    3 Bloodbraid Elf

    Instants / Sorceries
    3 Punishing Fire
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Lightning Bolt
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Golgari Charm

    Enchantments
    2 Sylvan Library

    Planeswalkers
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    Sideboard
    1 Pyroblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Duress
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Bow of Nylea
    2 Hymn to Tourach

    I've excluded a couple discard in the mainboard and opted for a lightning bolt and a maelstrom pulse.

    I'm also running 24 lands. How many fetchlands do we need? I would like to cut the 9th for a second Urborg.

    I've tested Huntmaster for a week or so. At least 30 matches and I am not impressed. I don't think it's better than Bloodbraid Elf. It doesn't impact the board quick enough and it can get countered whereas BBE usually gets me at least one permanent.

    Bow of Nylea has been off and on. If you can get it in the early game, it's really good. It practically wins you the game. The late game makes it a little too slow if it's against Burn or a Delver matchup.

    Sideboard cards I am still thinking about are: Krosan grip (Taking out Ancient Grudge), Null Rod, Slaughter Games (Although I feel like we have a decent enough of a game against Miracles that it may be a win-more card), Pernicious Deed, and possibly a 5 drop like Thragtusk or Battleskull (Although I am hesitant to play a 5 drop in this deck.)

    I'm also curious about Garruk Wildspeak or Flip Garruk. Has anyone tested any of these in Jund? If so, what matchups are they for? Also, what about Koth?

    Thanks
    I have played wildspeaker in Modern Jund and I played a ton of Garruk Relentless in legacy Maverick.

    Wildspeaker is really good with manlands like Treetop Village and Raging Ravine, but I dunno if he is good enough in legacy.

    Relentless is great against Miracles, Stoneblade, other Jund decks. He can be removal if you really need that, but mainly the token generation is really solid.

    Hope that helps!

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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by Neffy View Post
    I get your point on the creatures, thanks for commenting. Want to share want you do board out then? THanks
    Sure, but while typing up this list I realized my memory is failing because I can't figure out the discrepancy. I mean, that's definitely my sideboard, and that's what I usually board out, but it's 8 vs 9. I'll have to edit this when I'm not at work.

    In:
    +1*Bitterblossom
    +1*Actual Super Secret Tech
    +1*Surgical Extraction
    +1*Pyroblast
    +1*Red Elemental Blast
    +1*Pernicious Deed
    +1*Null Rod
    +1*Pithing Needle

    Out:
    -2*Wasteland
    -1*Other Tech
    -1*More Tech
    -2*Hymn to Tourach
    -1*Lightning Bolt
    -1*Golgari Charm
    -1*Maelstrom Pulse

    Quote Originally Posted by afedelejr View Post
    I've excluded a couple discard in the mainboard and opted for a lightning bolt and a maelstrom pulse.
    :(

    Anyway, with this in mind, I really don't see the point in Urborg here. Even with Hymn it ends up as more dangerous than useful, but without it, your only double-black card is Liliana. It feels like an enormous and worthless liability.

    The usual fetchland count would see you replacing Urborg with a fetch and flat out adding another fetch in general. With Punishing Fire I'm really an advocate of the 24 lands simply because that final land can fill in gaps, but I wouldn't necessarily fault you for doing 23.

    I've never really been able to get behind Garruk Relentless, but I've had huge amounts of success with Garruk Wildspeaker in BUG. He helps give more mana to churn through all those cantrips and Strixes and whatnot while still being a very solid threat and game-ender himself. But, while I've been looking for any excuse, I haven't really found a reason to want him in Jund. Does work? Fuck yes. Better than our other stuff? "Eeeh".

  20. #1360
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    Re: [Deck] Jund

    Hey guys,

    I was just looking at Cory Teran's sideboard from a little while ago, and I was wondering about some of the choices.

    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Diabolic Edict
    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Golgari Charm
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Thoughtseize

    Now, he opted for 9 maindeck discard spells, 8 removal spells, and typical creature and liliana counts.

    I am assuming his sideboard has so much removal because his maindeck is slightly weaker to midrange/creature decks.

    What types of decks would you bring in Engineered Explosives against though? Does that come in against Delver? Or just decks like elves?

    Howbout Diabolic Edit? Obviously it has implications against Reanimator and Sneak Attack in the combo department, but what fair decks does it come in against?

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