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Thread: The Rogue Hermit

  1. #961
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    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Thoughts on the new mulligan rule?
    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    If you diversified your cantrips, a chalice wouldn't be a liability.
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    You want interesting, nonbinary games? Don't make your deck so reliant on cantrips, like pretty much every above deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Almost everyone plays decks that are strictly worse 75s than the top decks - which most people could sleeve up if they wanted to, they just elected not to.

  2. #962

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Surprised no one is discussing Force of Vigor,

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Dreadreturn
    1 Lotleth Giant
    4 Pact of Negation
    1 Cabal Therapy
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    1 Wild Cantor
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual

    4 Force of Vigor
    4 Chancellor of the Annex

    It's more mana efficient to be able to cast it off of a Chancellor of the Tangle in hand, Manamorphose/Wild Chancellor or extra copy than it is to pay G, and more resilient to Chancellor of the Void on 0 or 1 considering you don't need to play artifact mana, Summoner's Pact or a 1cc spell anymore to destroy it. Between this and the new mulligan rule, I think the deck has a bit of a new life to it.

  3. #963

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Surprised no one is discussing Force of Vigor,

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Dreadreturn
    1 Lotleth Giant
    4 Pact of Negation
    1 Cabal Therapy
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    1 Wild Cantor
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual

    4 Force of Vigor
    4 Chancellor of the Annex

    It's more mana efficient to be able to cast it off of a Chancellor of the Tangle in hand, Manamorphose/Wild Chancellor or extra copy than it is to pay G, and more resilient to Chancellor of the Void on 0 or 1 considering you don't need to play artifact mana, Summoner's Pact or a 1cc spell anymore to destroy it. Between this and the new mulligan rule, I think the deck has a bit of a new life to it.
    There is any way to tune deck to beat Fair blue consistently? Like maindeck Veil of Summer or something like that. I feel like im crushing other achetypes easily but struggle a lot vs the plethora of Delver decks around right now.

  4. #964

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Surprised no one is discussing Force of Vigor,

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Dreadreturn
    1 Lotleth Giant
    4 Pact of Negation
    1 Cabal Therapy
    4 Street Wraith
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    1 Wild Cantor
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual

    4 Force of Vigor
    4 Chancellor of the Annex

    It's more mana efficient to be able to cast it off of a Chancellor of the Tangle in hand, Manamorphose/Wild Chancellor or extra copy than it is to pay G, and more resilient to Chancellor of the Void on 0 or 1 considering you don't need to play artifact mana, Summoner's Pact or a 1cc spell anymore to destroy it. Between this and the new mulligan rule, I think the deck has a bit of a new life to it.
    Side 4 chancellor 4 force of vigor and?

  5. #965

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    There is any way to tune deck to beat Fair blue consistently? Like maindeck Veil of Summer or something like that. I feel like im crushing other achetypes easily but struggle a lot vs the plethora of Delver decks around right now.
    You have to take a hit to your consistency if you want to play with more counters, basically you end up cutting Manamorphose I think and hoping 13 black sources gets there.

  6. #966

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    My list

    4 spy
    4 narcomoeba
    4 simian spirit
    4 elvish spirit
    4 street w
    4 chancellor of annex
    4 chancellor of the tangle
    4 informer
    1 wild cantor
    1 giant
    4 dark ritual
    4 pact of negation
    4 summoners pact
    4 Cabal ritual
    1 cabal therapy
    1 dread return
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 lotus petal

    Side
    4 Belcher
    4 led
    4 spoils vault
    3 rite of flame

  7. #967

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Got the 5-0 on MTGO.

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Dread Return
    1 Lotleth Giant
    4 Pact of Negation
    2 Cabal Therapy
    3 Street Wraith
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    1 Wild Cantor
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual

    4 Force of Vigor
    4 Unmask
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Nature's Claim


    List is solid.

    Leyline of Sanctity was a test and Im pretty happy about it. Not going to shave it unless something better pop up in my mind.
    It beats a lot of stuff.

    I tested Veil of Summer in that slot but sadly (I was very happy when they spoiled that card) it was awful. 1 mana is way too much for this deck. 2x1 vs soft counters is not the spot where I want to be.

    Unmask is pretty awful too, but its a must have or you scoop to Faerie Macabre.

    Force of Vigor is insanely good. Beats Leyline of the Void + Chalice easily (even spheres)

    Main deck Chancellor is a must online. You must lose some turn 1 kill consistency by dropping Tangle or you will lose tons of games just because your oppo knows that you are on Oops and aggressively mulls into interaction.
    No space for Tangle in the 75 imo, online at least. May be a little different in paper.

    2 Cabal Therapy because I like to have the 10 protections package and its good if you have some bad draws.

    3 Street Wraith. I think Street wraith is less needed now with the London Mulligan. Im scared to shave it completelt because messing with the number of creatures and black card is not good.

    One thing that I wanna ask here is if the 1 of of Bridge from Below is needed or not. I lost a game total of 2 games so far because I had some weird draw combination/oppo killed my creature in resp to Narco trigger etc...I dont feel it is necessary but maybe its a fine inclusion, idk.

    Shaving Manamorph seems bad to me because the lack of IMS for black is one of the biggest issues of the deck imo.
    Last edited by Jander78; 07-05-2019 at 01:08 PM. Reason: added tags

  8. #968

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    Got the 5-0 on MTGO.

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Dread Return
    1 Lotleth Giant
    4 Pact of Negation
    2 Cabal Therapy
    3 Street Wraith
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    1 Wild Cantor
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual

    4 Force of Vigor
    4 Unmask
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Nature's Claim


    List is solid.

    Leyline of Sanctity was a test and Im pretty happy about it. Not going to shave it unless something better pop up in my mind.
    It beats a lot of stuff.

    I tested Veil of Summer in that slot but sadly (I was very happy when they spoiled that card) it was awful. 1 mana is way too much for this deck. 2x1 vs soft counters is not the spot where I want to be.

    Unmask is pretty awful too, but its a must have or you scoop to Faerie Macabre.

    Force of Vigor is insanely good. Beats Leyline of the Void + Chalice easily (even spheres)

    Main deck Chancellor is a must online. You must lose some turn 1 kill consistency by dropping Tangle or you will lose tons of games just because your oppo knows that you are on Oops and aggressively mulls into interaction.
    No space for Tangle in the 75 imo, online at least. May be a little different in paper.

    2 Cabal Therapy because I like to have the 10 protections package and its good if you have some bad draws.

    3 Street Wraith. I think Street wraith is less needed now with the London Mulligan. Im scared to shave it completelt because messing with the number of creatures and black card is not good.

    One thing that I wanna ask here is if the 1 of of Bridge from Below is needed or not. I lost a game total of 2 games so far because I had some weird draw combination/oppo killed my creature in resp to Narco trigger etc...I dont feel it is necessary but maybe its a fine inclusion, idk.

    Shaving Manamorph seems bad to me because the lack of IMS for black is one of the biggest issues of the deck imo.
    Congratulations.

    Write you side guide vs tiers deck please. Thanks

  9. #969

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    I add Leylines vs discard and one shot graveyard removals like Tormod or Nihil. Storm and Reanimator and Grixis Control/Delver. Especially the new version with Arcanist that doesnt play Cage.

    Unmask is boarded in only on the draw vs Surgical but mostly for Faerie Macabre since it is OP vs us.

    7 removals vs Leyline, Spheres and Chalice.

    The hardest matchup is by far RUG Delver, because they have Cage and boarding in removals just for it is not reliable so I leave in Chancellors on the draw and hope that I have the nuts the next turn, they definetely keep hands with turn 1 Cage on the play and no counters and Chancellor can screw them.

    Generally speaking I want to submit the same 60 on the play since I.already have 10 protections maindeck and I only cut them if I think im playing vs Leylines.


    Im thinking about shaving Wraiths completely (im on 3 now). I think they should be mana but not a spell because the number of creatures is alredy pretty low sometimes post board.
    Maybe 3 Wild Cantor or 3 Tangle, idk.

  10. #970

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    I add Leylines vs discard and one shot graveyard removals like Tormod or Nihil. Storm and Reanimator and Grixis Control/Delver. Especially the new version with Arcanist that doesnt play Cage.

    Unmask is boarded in only on the draw vs Surgical but mostly for Faerie Macabre since it is OP vs us.

    7 removals vs Leyline, Spheres and Chalice.

    The hardest matchup is by far RUG Delver, because they have Cage and boarding in removals just for it is not reliable so I leave in Chancellors on the draw and hope that I have the nuts the next turn, they definetely keep hands with turn 1 Cage on the play and no counters and Chancellor can screw them.

    Generally speaking I want to submit the same 60 on the play since I.already have 10 protections maindeck and I only cut them if I think im playing vs Leylines.


    Im thinking about shaving Wraiths completely (im on 3 now). I think they should be mana but not a spell because the number of creatures is alredy pretty low sometimes post board.
    Maybe 3 Wild Cantor or 3 Tangle, idk.
    4 wild cantor main deck?mmmm interesting

  11. #971

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    what do you typically cut for the sb cards? pacts?

  12. #972

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    I REALLY want to write something about the deck since im already over 150 matches online, wait for it.

  13. #973

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    I REALLY want to write something about the deck since im already over 150 matches online, wait for it.
    In this moment you play same list 5 0?
    You change 3x street w main?

  14. #974

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    I REALLY want to write something about the deck since im already over 150 matches online, wait for it.
    Bridge is not necessary, if you have a Narcomoeba and Dread Return/Lotleth Giant in hand then you should definitely mulligan to 6 with the London.

    Leyline of Sanctity is amazing post London, wouldn't play without it either. I don't think Unmask is worth it tho', Faerie Macabre is even more of a niche SB card than Leyline of the Void in Legacy FWIW. I wouldn't cut Street Wraith, honestly I just don't see anything better to put in its place - it's basically the best of the bad cards.

  15. #975
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    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    You could consider 3 serum powder
    -rob

  16. #976

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Im on this one at the moment, I have not a definitive list, just testing stuff.

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Dread Return
    1 Lotleth Giant
    4 Pact of Negation
    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    4 Wild Cantor
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Cabal Ritual
    1 Bridge form Below
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle

    4 Force of Vigor
    3 Unmask
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    4 Veil of Summer


    ‐------

    In my opinion the whole deck should be tuned Vs Fair Blue.
    So 4 Pact and 4 Chancellor are mandatory. I think that 2 Therapy is the sweet spot.
    I tried maindeck Veil of Summer and it was a trap.

    Bridge or no Bridge. I played a lot without Bridge and lost only two games because I couldnt reanimate. Now that I have it I have to say that im much more comfortable with it in the 60. I would like to have less dead cards as possible and less bad topdecks tho.

    Back on 4 Chancellor of the Tangle. I hate this card. Mostly because its a very bad topdeck. It also makes mulliganing much worse when you have it + 2 IMS and you need to draw another one, but if you miss the chancellor mana is wasted and you need 2 more draws. Happens a lot.

    But with the 4 Wild Cantor setup im using I think its good. There is a lot of synergy between it, Wild Cantor and Chrome Mox.

    Street Wraith. There is simply not space for it. You can't cut mana or protection for it.

    Leyline of Sanctity is amazing, yeah. It does a lot.

    If we cut unmask we just scoop to Macabre, which is fine. Back on 3 Nature's Claim?

  17. #977

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    Im on this one at the moment, I have not a definitive list, just testing stuff.

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Dread Return
    1 Lotleth Giant
    4 Pact of Negation
    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    4 Wild Cantor
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Cabal Ritual
    1 Bridge form Below
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle

    4 Force of Vigor
    3 Unmask
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    4 Veil of Summer


    ‐------

    In my opinion the whole deck should be tuned Vs Fair Blue.
    So 4 Pact and 4 Chancellor are mandatory. I think that 2 Therapy is the sweet spot.
    I tried maindeck Veil of Summer and it was a trap.

    Bridge or no Bridge. I played a lot without Bridge and lost only two games because I couldnt reanimate. Now that I have it I have to say that im much more comfortable with it in the 60. I would like to have less dead cards as possible and less bad topdecks tho.

    Back on 4 Chancellor of the Tangle. I hate this card. Mostly because its a very bad topdeck. It also makes mulliganing much worse when you have it + 2 IMS and you need to draw another one, but if you miss the chancellor mana is wasted and you need 2 more draws. Happens a lot.

    But with the 4 Wild Cantor setup im using I think its good. There is a lot of synergy between it, Wild Cantor and Chrome Mox.

    Street Wraith. There is simply not space for it. You can't cut mana or protection for it.

    Leyline of Sanctity is amazing, yeah. It does a lot.

    If we cut unmask we just scoop to Macabre, which is fine. Back on 3 Nature's Claim?
    Write you side guide thanks

  18. #978

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    I think you're under valuing Street Wraith and over valuing Chancellor of the Annex, the value of Chancellor of the Annex is higher on the play than on the draw and the only way can min/max the card is to SB it and bring it in whenever you know you're on the play - the coin flip is too much variance.

    If you play Bridge, then you should play 3 Narcomoeba and 2 Bridge for the added imprint targets.


    I agree with Cantors being better than Manamorphose, they can't be Spell Pierced or Spell Snared and are more mana efficient if you can/have to pass the turn.


    One card you should check out is Guttoral Response, being able to play it off Simian Spirit Guide might actually make it better than Summer's Veil.

  19. #979

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I think you're under valuing Street Wraith and over valuing Chancellor of the Annex, the value of Chancellor of the Annex is higher on the play than on the draw and the only way can min/max the card is to SB it and bring it in whenever you know you're on the play - the coin flip is too much variance.

    If you play Bridge, then you should play 3 Narcomoeba and 2 Bridge for the added imprint targets.


    I agree with Cantors being better than Manamorphose, they can't be Spell Pierced or Spell Snared and are more mana efficient if you can/have to pass the turn.


    One card you should check out is Guttoral Response, being able to play it off Simian Spirit Guide might actually make it better than Summer's Veil.
    I think the key here is indentify the best possible list against fair blue. Everything else I think is less important.

    Combo (15)

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Bridge from Below
    1 Dread Return
    1 Lotleth Giant

    Protection (6)

    4 Pact of Negation
    2 Cabal Therapy

    Mana (36)

    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    4 Wild Cantor
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle

    TOTAL=57 cards

    IN THEORY, you can shave 1 Bridge and 1 Cabal Therapy and free up two slots. BUT im kinda liking the consistency and "protection" the bridge and the 2nd therapy gives to me.

    Let's go back to the best possible 60 vs Fair Blue.

    ON THE PLAY you want:

    4 Pact of Negation
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    1-2 Cabal Therapy
    3-4 something.

    Something could be Unmask or Veil of Summer or like you suggested Guttural Response.
    Unmask can beat anything but requires a black card, Veil of Summer is probably better than Guttural Response against Stifle but it's basically the same against counterspell, but Guttural is easier to cast because of SSG.

    Otherwise you can just go with 4 Pact 4 Chancellor 1-2 Therapy and hope for the best, but I think this configuration is too light.

    You also need to think at what to cut to make space for 4 Chancellor and 3-4 Unmask/Veil/Guttural.


    Combo (15)

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Bridge from Below
    1 Dread Return
    1 Lotleth Giant

    Protection (6)

    4 Pact of Negation
    2 Cabal Therapy

    Mana (36)

    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    4 Wild Cantor
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle

    TOTAL=57 cards

    IN THEORY, you can shave 1 Bridge and 1 Cabal Therapy and free up two slots. BUT im kinda liking the consistency and "protection" the bridge and the 2nd therapy gives to me.

    Let's go back to the best possible 60 vs Fair Blue.

    ON THE PLAY you want:

    Combo (15)

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Bridge from Below
    1 Dread Return
    1 Lotleth Giant

    Protection (13)

    4 Pact of Negation
    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    3 Guttural Response


    Mana (36)

    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    4 Wild Cantor
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle

    TOTAL=64 cards

    We are forced to shave on mana obviously. But how much mana can be shaved without losing to much consistency? I don't know.

    On the DRAW is another story. Like you said Chancellor is less powerful so we don't want it.

    Combo (15)

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    4 Narcomoeba
    1 Bridge from Below
    1 Dread Return
    1 Lotleth Giant

    Protection (13)

    4 Pact of Negation
    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Guttural Response


    Mana (36)

    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    4 Wild Cantor
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle

    TOTAL= 64 cards

    I think Leyline of Sanctity is good against Blue-Black based, protects from discards which is huge. It also protects from Tormod's Crypt and Nihil Spellbomb. Tormod's Crypt is the most played graveyard hate sideboard card from the new UR Delver/Dreadhorde Arcanist lists. So I tend to board it in vs UR, Grixis Delver, Grixis Control, UBx Control (BUG etc..).
    Problem is that you still lose to Cage from RUG Delver and Priest from UW.
    Do we want to board in some Nature's Claim/Force of Vigor just for Cages? I don't think so.

    So in the end the list could be like this:

    MAIN

    4 Balustrade Spy
    4 Undercity Informer
    3 Narcomoeba
    2 Bridge from Below

    1 Dread Return
    1 Lotleth Giant

    Protection (6)

    4 Pact of Negation
    2 Cabal Therapy

    3 Street Wraith

    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Summonerís Pact
    4 Wild Cantor
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Chancellor of the Tangle

    TOT= 60 Cards

    SIDE

    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Force of Vigor
    3 Guttural Response/Veil of Summer/Unmask

    We have a pretty consistent game 1 turn 1/2 kill. We probably lose to permission on the draw tho.
    Game 2 on the play we give up some consistency and add 4-7 anti blue cards
    Game 3 on the draw we try to blank their discards/graveyard hate (minus Surgical) with Leyline of Sanctity, sculpt a good 7 before they kill us and hope that our Pacts + Gutturals can break the counter wall.

    Thoughts?

  20. #980

    Re: The Rogue Hermit

    hello I in the bench I have 2 (bontu's last reckoning) goes very well against decks that many creatures play, petal + dark ritual + bontus, kill all creatures

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