This came up in my match yesterday at SCG Edison. I posted the scenario in the painter thread but I will detail it again here.
In play on my side: Goblin Welder (no summoning sickness), Phyrexian Revoker naming Stoneforge Mystic and no other artifacts.
In my graveyard: Phyrexian Metamorph
My opponents in play: Stoneforge Mystic, unequipped Sword of Fire and Ice and no other artifacts
I chose to weld in my Phyrexian Metamorph targeting my Phyrexian Revoker and upon resolution realized that the Revoker would be in the yard and I wouldn't be able to copy the Revoker to name Sword of Fire and Ice. After the match, the judge sitting at the table informed me that one of the commentators/starcity rules people said that I could have copied Phyrexian Revoker with the Metamorph since it checks last known game info or something? There was a discussion with the judge and others that I listened to after the match but I was hoping for an in depth look at this here. Thanks
You'll be able to.
Metamorph's copy ability doesn't use the stack and Revoker's denial ability also doesn't use the stack because of the "As ~ enters the battlefield".
Metamorph checks what to copy before it enters the field. This means it's not on the field yet (while Revoker is).
Goblin Welder makes Metamorph enter and Revoker leave simultaneously. They will not see each other on the field or the graveyard.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forumsOriginally Posted by Kyle
"As ETB" is a replacement effect. It happens just before the permanent enters the battlefield, and at that point whatever you are Weldering out is still on the battlefield. This is the same reason you can't Clone whatever your opponent is Show and Telling in.
614.1c. Effects that read "[This permanent] enters the battlefield with . . . ," "As [this permanent] enters the battlefield . . . ," or "[This permanent] enters the battlefield as . . . " are replacement effects.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
Seconded on cdr's answer, and also a clarification. The word "simultaneously" is really weird and uncommon - only 5 cards in Magic use it in their oracle text, and Welder is the only one that involves zone changes. Most cards are templated "do x, then do y" - a good example is Living Death. Intuitively, you're exchanging graveyards and battlefields, but what it actually reads is:
The point of this is that replacement effects will happen before either of the Welder targets change zones because of the word "simultaneously".Code:Living Death - Each player exiles all creature cards from his or her graveyard, then sacrifices all creatures he or she controls, then puts all cards he or she exiled this way onto the battlefield.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote