I think he meant that Snapcaster is not good in matches that we board in RIP.Originally Posted by potatodavid
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to beat Miracles? I lose to it every single time. I'm running the stock Owen list.
Was abt to ask the same. The question is.. which card in Miracles is the most problematic?
Add some stifles. Pithing needle naming sensei's divining top, not letting them resolve counterbalance and then stifling their miracles will make their life harder.
Miracles can be very tough but I found that if you just let them kill your creatures, and target there finishers/soft lock with your counters you have a better shot. don't waist counters on there removal unless its dazeable. just keep jamming threats and try not to over extend into there terminus. get Batterskull out when they kill the germ return it and try again. I have beat them with this strategy in a few matches, and lost a few doing this too when I cant seen to keep threats on the board. miracles is unfavorable for sure. hope this helps.
The enemy of the best is the good. If you're always settling with what's good, you'll never be the best.
-Jerry Rice
Against Miracles I tried 2x Envelop and 2x Pithing Needle in SB and both were really good against field. Envelop is unexpected counter against their miracles and it is also very good against decks like Elves, Storm, Show and Tell decks.
Pithing Needle will help you beat miracle decks. Once it's down they have to venser to stop it. Counter all their win conditions and try to stomp face quickly. Get a batter skull out as soon as you can. It's a crap match up, but it's not winnable.
Assume Needle passes counter. Miracles can Venser, Council's Judgement, Wear//Tear, Disenchant, and EE it. So yeah, it can venser, doesn't have to.
It is a crap match up, you're trying to get a b-skull going asap against them.
Play 4 stifle. I personally haven't lost to miracles since playing them. I've won matches against match-ups, like miracles, I had no business winning thanks to stifle.
If you have a delver hand, try to cut them off white mana while bringing the beats. If they've already established their mana or if you have a slower hand, now focus on stifling terminus and have them waste brainstorms on bringing them back. Be disciplined to only deploy 1 creature at a time to make sure they only get a 1 for 1 on their removal. The only time you'd ever want more than 1 creature in play is if you have mage on terminus. Running them out of removal is key so make sure to side-in all your creatures.
Try to save your fow and reb for their cb and eta which ends the game for them, stifle helps here by essentially being a hard counter to eta and terminus. Worry about Jace but not so much as they'd be siding-out at least 1 Post-board and you could manage him using your creatures and bolt/grim lavamancer, sofi helps here as well. Jace won't be trouble unless he lands on an empty board which further stresses the point of managing your creatures well. Stoneforge and tnn are key here so try to not play them straight into counters.
Test a lot against miracles and eventually you'll get how to play against them correctly. Goodluck!
Why so serious?
Talking about match-ups, does anyone have any tips on playing sneak and show? I've been blown out by this deck recently ranging from overly unfair starts, blood moon shutting me down, to getting the combo online on their last turn. I know delver decks are supposed to be positive against sneak and show but playing them feels like their doing to many powerful stuff and I eventually get spent.
Any piece of advice would be appreciated. More power to UWR!
Why so serious?
Thanks for the help with the Miracles MU. Show and Tell is a deck I never had problem with especially postboard. Cards I use against them include Canonist (good vs Elves, Tendrils Combo, as well), Meddling Mage(s), REBs, and the singleton Needle.
Really? How does your matches usually go? I board in 3 mages, 2 rebs, 4th spell Pierce, 1 sofi(for jitte), 1 needle, and 1 wear/tear for 4 bolts, 3 stp, 1 tnn. From experience, I only win it if their start and succeeding draws are bad. My good hand against theirs or my bad hand against theirs, they always seem to edge me out. So I'm not really sure if I'm just keeping soft hands which I should mulligan or their plays are just that much more powerful.
Could you give insights on how you play the match-up? Thanks!
Why so serious?
Really? How does your matches usually go? I board in 3 mages, 2 rebs, 4th spell Pierce, 1 sofi(for jitte), 1 needle, and 1 wear/tear for 4 bolts, 3 stp, 1 tnn. From experience, I only win it if their start and succeeding draws are bad. My good hand against theirs or my bad hand against theirs, they always seem to edge me out. So I'm not really sure if I'm just keeping soft hands which I should mulligan or their plays are just that much more powerful.
Could you give insights on how you play the match-up? Thanks!
Why so serious?
Miracles is NOT a good matchup, but you can win.
Assume you are the beatdown. Miracles has StP, Terminus, and Supreme Verdict to stop your beatdown, as well as possible Vendilion Clique, Snapcaster Mage, and/or Stoneforge/Batterskull package to stop the beatdown.
How do you beat those cards?
Take out every reactive spell and soft counter that does not stop those cards in particular: Swords to Plowshares, Daze, Umezawa's Jitte, that's 8-9 options. Even Spell Pierce can be particularly bad, since every Miracles player will attempt to play around both Spell Pierce and Daze, and they don't ever really have to do anything, so they can just sit there. You have to force the Miracles player to play Magic.
Not boarding out Lightning Bolt: If my plan is to race, Lightning Bolt represents 3 damage that can win the game. See match in Round 7 vs. Reid Duke this weekend.
Board in: Meddling Mage, Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast, Wear/Tear, Grim Lavamancer.
Best bets: Play Delver of Secrets on turn 1 and race, or just play out threats 1-2 at a time to force the removal spells, then play more creatures to continue the beatdown plan. This gets much harder if the Miracles player can resolve Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
Try to stop Counterbalance at all opportunities, or at least keep Top off the board for as long as possible.
My current sideboard:
4 Meddling Mage
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Wear/Tear
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Flusterstorm
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Rest in Peace
I am more concerned that more players are going to start to play the Bant Thopter Foundry deck from this weekend. That deck is an abject nightmare to play against.
Does anyone have a list the includes a Stifle build? I'm having trouble finding room.
Also, what is with the sudden uprising of SCG Top 8s using 3 Gitaxian Probe? Is anyone testing this?
It's entirely a preference thing. Drop spare STP/Pierce to use 3 gitaxian probes.
Can you explain the benefits?
Pre-board, its just a matter of you landing a threat and having counters. This might be hard to do but if you manage to mull aggressively, chances are that you might have this kind of opening hand.
Post board, I just bring in more creatures that also slow them down from implementing their gameplan like Mage and Canonist. Canonist cant be REB'ed btw.
I think that we have a new card! Treasure Cruise from Khans looks great for this deck. I was think as a two or three of due to the dependency on the graveyard. It plays around counter-top and will be a great tool to refill your hand in the mid to late game. Since we don't rely on the yard like other delver strategies with goyf and deathrite. I for sure look forward to testing this one. http://sales.starcitygames.com/cards...reasure+Cruise
The enemy of the best is the good. If you're always settling with what's good, you'll never be the best.
-Jerry Rice
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